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Civilian killed in Lethpora, another ‘critical’; Toll reaches 52

You are some delusional freak. It is not Kashmiri Muslim but India's obsession and illegal occupation of their land. They want freedom from India and that is their right.

Go we give freedom. Buzz off to wherever you want to go but out of India. And no land. We already gave land in 1947. Fight those who occupied land we gave up. Fight and win over Pakistan and establish Kashmir. Allah is with you Kashmiris.

@Loafer
Pls learn to debate discussion without naming a state people something crude filled hatred, abuse or any kind of comparing them with arguments which are not backed by facts.

You can express your own posts in Much civil way.

Your intention to pinpoint that J&K issue has become a liability for both countries should have been worded much better. Pls better word them for future purposes.

Bring anything tangible to the table. What benefits did Pakistan get from support to Kashmir?

Did it being any FDI? Did it double double tour per capita income. An average Pakistani is as muh waise as 1947.

What did you gain?
 
That writ of the state is illegal and they should not only question but they should bullet it through the foreheads of terrorist Indian army soldiers.

We, of course, see it precisely the other way around.
 
Go we give freedom. Buzz off to wherever you want to go but out of India. And no land. We already gave land in 1947. Fight those who occupied land we gave up. Fight and win over Pakistan and establish Kashmir. Allah is with you Kashmiris.



Bring anything tangible to the table. What benefits did Pakistan get from support to Kashmir?

Did it being any FDI? Did it double double tour per capita income. An average Pakistani is as muh waise as 1947.

What did you gain?
I see a "great" beginning for you here on pdf and I can tell your stay will be short.

We, of course, see it precisely the other way around.
I know that but that's not factual. I would rather go with facts :)
 
I see a "great" beginning for you here on pdf and I can tell your stay will be short.


I know that but that's not factual. I would rather go with facts :)

That's all you could say?

What did Kashmiris benefit you? How did supporting Kashmiris uplift life of Pakistanis?

No Pakistani will dare to say simply because they don't have anything to counter. They will be embarrassed.
 
Letter from Maharaja Hari Singh to Lord Mountbatten on Pak invasion of J&K in 1947

My dear Lord Mountbatten,

I have to inform Your Excellency that a grave emergency has arisen in my State and request the immediate assistance of your Government. As Your Excellency is aware,the State of Jammu and Kashmir has not acceded to either the Dominion of India or Pakistan. Geographically my State is contiguous with both of them. Besides, my State has a common boundary with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and with China. In their external relations the Dominion of India and Pakistan cannot ignore this fact. I wanted to take time to decide to which Dominion I should accede or whether it is not in the best interests of both the Dominions and of my State to stand independent, of course with friendly and cordial relations with both. I accordingly approached the Dominions of India and Pakistan to enter into standstill agreement with my State. The Pakistan Government accepted this arrangement. The Dominion of India desired further discussion with representatives of my Government. I could not arrange this in view of the developments indicated below. ln fact the Pakistan Goernment under the standstill agreement is operating the post and telegraph system inside the State. Though we have got a standstill agreement with the Pakistan Government, the Govemment permitted a steady and increasing strangulation of supplies like food, salt and petrol to my State.

Afridis, soldiers in plain clothes, and desperadoes with modern weapons have been allowed to infiltrate into the State, at first in the Poonch area, then from Sialkot and finally in a mass in the area adjoining-Hazara district on the Ramkote side. The result has been that the limited number of troops at the disposal of the State had to be dispersed and thus had to face the enemy at several points simultaneously, so that it has become difficult to stop the wanton destruction of life and property and the looting of the Mahura power house, which supplies electric current to the whole of Srinagar and which has been burnt. The number of women who have been kidnapped and raped makes my heart bleed. The wild forces thus let loose on the State are marching on with the aim of capturing Srinagar, the summer capital of my government, as a first step to overrunning the whole State. The mass infiltration of tribesman drawn from distant areas of the North-West Frontier Province, coming regularly in motortrucks, using the Manwehra-Mazaffarabad road and fully armed with up-to-date weapons, cannot possibly be done without the knowledge of the Provincial Govemment of the North-West Frontier Province and the Government of Pakistan. Inspite of repeated appeals made by my Government no attempt has been made to check these raiders or to stop them from coming into my State. In fact, both radio and the Press of Pakistan have reported these occurences. The Pakistan radio even put out the story that a provisional government has been set up in Kashmir. The people of my State, both Muslims and non-Muslims, generally have taken no part at all.

With the conditbns obtaining at present in my State and the great emergency of the situation as it exists, I have no option but to ask for help from the Indian Dominion. Naturally they cannot send the help asked for by me without my State acceding to the Dominion of India. I have accordingly decided to do so, and I attach the instrument of accession for acceptance by your Government. The other alternative is to leave my state and people to free booters. On this basis no civilised government can exist or be maintained.

This alternative I will never allow to happen so long as I am the ruler of the State and I have life to defend my country. I may also inform your Excellency's Government that it is my intention at once to set up an interim government and to ask Sheikh Abdullah to carry the responsibilities in this emergency with my Prime Minister.

If my State is to be saved, immediate assistance must be available at Srinagar. Mr. V.P. Menon is fully aware of the gravity of the situation and will explain it to you, if further explanation is needed.

In haste and with kindest regards,

Yours sincerely,

Hari Singh
October 26, 1947



Response from Lord Mountbatten

My dear Maharaja Sahib,

Your Highness' letter dated 26 October 1947 has been delivered to me by Mr. V.P. Menon. In the circumstances mentioned by Your Highness, my Government have decided to accept the accession of Kashmir State to the Dominion of India. In consistence with their policy that in the case of any State where the issue of accession has been the subject of dispute, the question of accession should be decided in accordance with the wishes of the people of the State, it is my Government's wish that, as soon as law and order have been restored in Kashmir and its soil cleared of the invader, the question of the State's accession should be settled by a reference to the people.

Meanwhile, in response to Your Highness' appeal for military aid, action has been taken today to send troops of the Indian Army to Kashmir, to help your own forces to defend your territory and to protect the lives, property, and honour of your people. My Government and I note with satisfaction that Your Highness has decided to invite Sheikh Abdullah to form an interim Government to work with your Prime Minister.

Mountbatten of Burma
October 27, 1947


Source: Defence.pk



Read the above Post and UN resolutions. It's Pakistan which is the occupation force. :enjoy:



RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN ON 13 AUGUST 1948. (DOCUMENT NO. S/1100, PARA 75, DATED THE 9TH NOVEMBER, 1948)

THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN

Having given careful consideration to the points of view expressed by the Representatives of India and Pakistan regarding the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and

Being of the opinion that the prompt cessation of hostilities and the coercion of conditions the continuance of which is likely to endanger international peace and security are essential to implementation of its endeavors to assist the Governments of India and Pakistan in effecting a final settlement of the situation.

Resolves to submit simultaneously to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following proposal

PART I

CEASE-FIRE ORDER

1. The Governments of India and Pakistan agree that their respective High Commands will issue separately and simultaneously a cease- fire order to apply to all forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir as of the earliest practicable date or dates to be mutually agreed upon within four days after these proposals have been accepted by both Governments.

2. The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).

3. The Commanders-in-Chief of the Forces of India and Pakistan shall promptly confer regarding any necessary local changes in present dispositions which may facilitate the cease-fire.

4. In its discretions and as the Commission may find practicable, the Commission will appoint military observers who under the authority of the Commission and with the co-operation of both Commands will supervise the observance of the cease-fire order.

5. The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan agree to appeal to their respective peoples to assist in creating and maintaining an atmosphere favorable to the promotion of further negotiations.



PART II

TRUCE AGREEMENT

Simultaneously with the acceptance of the proposal for the immediate cessation of hostilities as outlined in Part I, both Governments accept the following principles as a basis for the formulation of a truce agreement, the details of which shall be worked out in discussion between their Representatives and the Commission.

1. (l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.

(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.

(3) Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission.

2. (1) When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission

(2) Pending the acceptance of the conditions for a final settlement of the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian Government will maintain within the lines existing at the moment of cease-fire the minimum strength of its forces which in agreement with the Commission are considered necessary to assist local authorities in the observance of law and order. The Commission will have observers stationed where it deems necessary.

(3) The Government of India will undertake to ensure that the Government of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will take all measures within their power to make it publicly known that peace, law and order will be safeguarded and that all human and political rights will be guaranteed.

3. (1) Upon signature, the full text of the Truce Agreement or communiqué containing the principles thereof as agreed upon between the two Governments and the Commission, will be made public.


PART III

The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan reaffirm their wish that the future status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people and to that end, upon acceptance of the Truce Agreement both Governments agree to enter into consultations with the Commission to determine fair and equitable conditions whereby such free expression will be assured.


*The UNCIP unanimously adopted this Resolution on 13-8-1948.

Members of the Commission: Argentina. Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and U.S.A.

I don't give a flying toss what the UN has to say, this is the same UN that supports the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, starting a civil war in Syria, etc.

give breakdown of the figure

700,000 soldiers.
 
That's all you could say?

What did Kashmiris benefit you? How did supporting Kashmiris uplift life of Pakistanis?

No Pakistani will dare to say simply because they don't have anything to counter. They will be embarrassed.
i do not intend to waste my time with you since I have better options available for discussion. I'm just putting you on my ignore list as your post are useless and immature.
 
A universally despised despot (hari Singh) who was illegally handed the state of kashmir by another group of illegal occupiers (British) to then hand over sovereignty to a 3rd set of illegal foreign occupiers (Indians) against the wishes of the people of kashmiri people and a universally accepted mandate against any kind of democratic norms makes the above bullshit instrument of accession null and void

If your arguments are to be accepted, the State of Pakistan is null and void.
 
This Garbage must have hurt you. :lol: The Ex Moderator of this Forum started thread based on it. :bunny:

That was a really pathetic jibe by @war&peace , at the authentic text of the covering letter to the Instrument of Accession of Hari Singh.

He is normally a rational member who will listen to reason. I am really surprised at his outburst. Please make allowances for a fit of temper, perhaps.

Death to 7 lakh indian occupier terrorist roaches.

Ah, how did you come to the figure 7 lakh? Any breakup, any proof?

Kashmiri Muslims have brought us south Asians to the dogs. They are responsible for our increased defence spending and less allocation on critical development items.

Please clean up your language.
 
I see a "great" beginning for you here on pdf and I can tell your stay will be short.


I know that but that's not factual. I would rather go with facts :)

Very well, let us go with facts.

Since that is what you want, let us get factual, but let us do that one step at a time.

How did the Dominion of Pakistan come into being? How did it acquire sovereignty as a nation-state?

Hey you are really pathetic guy and misusing your authority and I'm raising this issue

Do raise it by all means.

That was an authentic document. What do you mean by calling it garbage?
 
Ah, how did you come to the figure 7 lakh? Any breakup, any proof?.

Sir, it's sad and shameful to joke around after the massacre of innocent kashmiris of IOK. In another thread I already replied you like a zillion times that my information is mainly based on General Musharraf and I refuse to believe indian fabricated stories. There are 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK as mentioned by Gen Musharraf and that's the fact not some arnab goswami, rawami nonsense.
 
I don't give a flying toss what the UN has to say, this is the same UN that supports the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, starting a civil war in Syria, etc.



700,000 soldiers.

That makes 30 divisions. The Indian Army has 34 divisions. Are you seriously saying, on a defence forum, that there are a total of 4 divisions altogether elsewhere? On the Lahore front? In Daulat Beg Oldi? In Rajasthan? In XXXIII Corps, around Sikkim and Bhutan? In Assam, Arunachal and Nagaland?

Please think and reply.

Sir, it's sad and shameful to joke around after the massacre of innocent kashmiris of IOK. In another thread I already replied you like a zillion times that my information is mainly based on General Musharraf and I refuse to believe indian fabricated stories. There are 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK as mentioned by Gen Musharraf and that's the fact not some arnab goswami, rawami nonsense.

It is sad and shameful that you use false figures to make a false case. Please read post #35.
 
Hey you are really pathetic guy and misusing your authority and I'm raising this issue

Excuse me?

You flatly contradict the reproduction of an authentic document and insinuate that it is a forgery, and think you can do that with impunity? Without even bothering to do your homework? If you think everything, every issue can be reduced to your shouting louder than others, you are grossly mistaken. Take the trouble to look up the document before you comment.

@Parul
@hellfire

Authentic who told for an indian hindu it might be authentic...it is typed here....were there computers in 1947? what a BS and now stop quoting and talking to me...

You are going beyond the limits of manners.
 
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Sir, it's sad and shameful to joke around after the massacre of innocent kashmiris of IOK. In another thread I already replied you like a zillion times that my information is mainly based on General Musharraf and I refuse to believe indian fabricated stories. There are 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK as mentioned by Gen Musharraf and that's the fact not some arnab goswami, rawami nonsense.

A little bird tells me that Pakistanis have handed over the road between Skardu to Minimarg till Taobat to Chinese Infantry Brigade. Now if I repeat it and quote myself as you were entertaining them on your posts along Durmut Ridge (you have seven posts over the ridge under command of your brigade at Taobat) will a transitory phase become permanent?

If you want I can post equally stupid claims. You can check my figure of number of your posts if you have access to someone there. So I use one fact and post lies that you handed over these posts to Chinese. How would it look? Stupid, right?

So what should we do here? Take you seriously or merely as another member not knowing facts?

@Joe Shearer sir I suggest as of today to any post claiming 700000 troops, I will post the above absurdity. I am accurate about number of Pakistani posts. Will upload their alignment from google if need be and then two can tango. LOL
 
A little bird tells me that Pakistanis have handed over the road between Skardu to Minimarg till Taobat to Chinese Infantry Brigade. Now if I repeat it and quote myself as you were entertaining them on your posts along Durmut Ridge (you have seven posts over the ridge under command of your brigade at Taobat) will a transitory phase become permanent?

If you want I can post equally stupid claims. You can check my figure of number of your posts. So I use one fact and post lies that you handed over these posts to Chinese. How would it look? Stupid, right?

So what should we do here? Take you seriously or merely as another member not knowing facts?

@Joe Shearer sir I suggest as of today to any post claiming 700000 troops, I will post the above absurdity. I am accurate about number of Pakistani posts. Will upload their alignment from google if need be and then two can tango. LOL

Agreed.

This particular member, on being cornered on facts, fell back on an interview Musharraf gave somewhere and is clinging to it for dear life.
 

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