CIA chief in Delhi to meet Indian intelligence officials

[Stumper]

Your superpower is being compared to Africa here.

And how does this help your country or its population, may i ask?

 

[Omar1984]

And how does this help your country or its population, may i ask?

I was replying to the post made by your countryperson, read his/her post and see my respond.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stay on topic please - this thread is not about poverty levels.

Infractions and post deletion will follow if more off topic posts are made.

 

[ajpirzada]

US asks India to pull back troops from Pak border
NDTV Correspondent
Thursday, March 19, 2009, (New Delhi)

India has come under unexpected pressure from the US; NDTV has learnt that the Indian Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon has been told that it's India, and not Pakistan that should make the first moves towards restoring peace.

The US has asked India to pullback troops from the Pakistan border.

Outraged, India has told US that Pakistan is responsible for tension between the two countries. India has also told the US that it hadn't deployed extra troops after the Mumbai attacks. Rather it was Pakistan which has sent thousands of troops.

However, India on Thursday also clarified the Mumbai terror attacks had nothing to do with its relationship with Pakistan.

But External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has said that India still believes terrorists used Pakistani soil and infrastructure in that country to launch the 26/11 attacks.

The reason for the latest US move is that President Barack Obama is gearing up to launch a bigger military offensive in Afghanistan.

For this, he needs more Pakistani troops to help along the volatile Afghan-Pakistan border, troops, which Islamabad moved to the Indian border.

It's obvious that America has its own compulsions at this point that have led it to put pressure on India in this manner.

NDTV.com: US asks India to pull back troops from Pak border

 

[PeacefulIndian]

US asks India to pull back troops from Pak border
NDTV Correspondent
Thursday, March 19, 2009, (New Delhi)

India has come under unexpected pressure from the US; NDTV has learnt that the Indian Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon has been told that it's India, and not Pakistan that should make the first moves towards restoring peace.

The US has asked India to pullback troops from the Pakistan border.

Outraged, India has told US that Pakistan is responsible for tension between the two countries. India has also told the US that it hadn't deployed extra troops after the Mumbai attacks. Rather it was Pakistan which has sent thousands of troops.

However, India on Thursday also clarified the Mumbai terror attacks had nothing to do with its relationship with Pakistan.

But External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has said that India still believes terrorists used Pakistani soil and infrastructure in that country to launch the 26/11 attacks.

The reason for the latest US move is that President Barack Obama is gearing up to launch a bigger military offensive in Afghanistan.

For this, he needs more Pakistani troops to help along the volatile Afghan-Pakistan border, troops, which Islamabad moved to the Indian border.

It's obvious that America has its own compulsions at this point that have led it to put pressure on India in this manner.

NDTV.com: US asks India to pull back troops from Pak border

Probably this is just a prestige issue. The troops on both sides on the border are not there to attack the other. And India - Pakistan relations are moving towards more like a Cold War situation, not actual war. So pulling back troops from border is not important strategically.

But as I said, this may be prestige issue for India, where she would expect Pakistan to back out the forces first. /but doesn't matter who blinks first.

 

[Omar1984]

Probably this is just a prestige issue. The troops on both sides on the border are not there to attack the other. And India - Pakistan relations are moving towards more like a Cold War situation, not actual war. So pulling back troops from border is not important strategically.

But as I said, this may be prestige issue for India, where she would expect Pakistan to back out the forces first. /but doesn't matter who blinks first.

U.S. wants Pakistan to focus more on its western border than the eastern border, but no way is Pakistan going to leave its eastern borders when arch rival India has placed all their troops on the border with Pakistan.

U.S. must pressure India to have their troops pulled back from the border, Pakistan has enough in its plate and its not going to make the first move.
India being a larger country should pull back its troops first.

 

[Proud2Indian]

I guess India is not going to reudue its troops from the border area not in significant no that will give comfort level to Pakistan.....Current situation in SWAT and other area is in favour of India...I know this will anger the members from Pakistan and also this is detrimental to their nation but given the untrust in Indo-Pak relations today this is the truth......US has to find other ways to convince Pakistan to move forces from Eatern side to troubled area's


tx

 

[Omar1984]

I guess India is not going to reudue its troops from the border area not in significant no that will give comfort level to Pakistan.....Current situation in SWAT and other area is in favour of India...I know this will anger the members from Pakistan and also this is detrimental to their nation but given the untrust in Indo-Pak relations today this is the truth......US has to find other ways to convince Pakistan to move forces from Eatern side to troubled area's


tx

If Indian government think the same way like this Indian member, then US can forget about any troops moving from our eastern border to the western border.

Pakistan cant leave its eastern border empty when a hostile neighbor, 8 times larger than our nation, has all their troops situated on the border.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Probably this is just a prestige issue. The troops on both sides on the border are not there to attack the other. And India - Pakistan relations are moving towards more like a Cold War situation, not actual war. So pulling back troops from border is not important strategically.

But as I said, this may be prestige issue for India, where she would expect Pakistan to back out the forces first. /but doesn't matter who blinks first.

If this report is true - This is only a 'prestige' issue for the Indians. Pakistani forces were deployed in the North West, and Pakistan's civilian and military leadership has indicated several times that it considers the militant threat greater than the Indian one at the moment (which does not mean the Indian threat is nonexistent).

Pakistan and India will both benefit from India moving forces away from the border allowing Pakistan to apply more resources in the North West against the militants - such a move might herald a decisive shift in the WoT.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

.....
Pakistan cant leave its eastern border empty when a hostile neighbor, 8 times larger than our nation, has all their troops situated on the border.

All the troops!!!! Post Parliament attack there was a heavy movement of machinery visible across the nation on railway tracks. No such movement was noticed this year. The Sukhois dance over my head every day at 9 a.m. waking me up with their loud roars, so do the Jaguars at different hours. I do not see any state of high emergency, nor have I seen it in the last 2-3 months. I can understand that as arch rivals we do not trust each other and so we may say that the other nation has moved its troop on the border. But "All the troops"? Do you really think India, for that matter any country which has been at war with two of its neighbours on either side, can afford to do that?

Regards,
Anoop

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All the troops!!!! Post Parliament attack there was a heavy movement of machinery visible across the nation on railway tracks. No such movement was noticed this year. The Sukhois dance over my head every day at 9 a.m. waking me up with their loud roars, so do the Jaguars at different hours. I do not see any state of high emergency, nor have I seen it in the last 2-3 months. I can understand that as arch rivals we do not trust each other and so we may say that the other nation has moved its troop on the border. But "All the troops"? Do you really think India, for that matter any country which has been at war with two of its neighbours on either side, can afford to do that?

Regards,
Anoop

Anoop:

If the report is true, then the US likely did her homework on Indian troop levels on the border.

Secondly, not 'all the troops' will be moved, enough for defensive purposes will likely be left by both sides.

Third, Pakistan will also be redeploying a number of troops away from the border and LoC to expand operations in the North West, and so will not have the capability to launch offensive operations against India either - this would be the entire purpose of such a suggestion.

In fact, India will still be at an advantage since Pakistan's troops will be deployed into combat, while India's will merely be redeployed away from the border ready to move whenever necessary.

The Indian's need to think about this possible suggestion and its benefits a little more rationally and less emotionally.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am surprised this was made public, given how India gets its panties in a bunch over anything that questions its 'presumed superpower status' and 'third party mediation in the Indo-Pak context.

Any such negotiations, if they took place, would be kept confidential I imagine, given Indian panties.. ahem, I mean .. sensitivities.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

Anoop:

If the report is true, then the US likely did her homework on Indian troop levels on the border.

Hi Agnostic,
Before I discuss this further, I do want to tell where I am coming from.

1.) I can believe in troop build up. I wouldn't deny that.
2.) I do not believe Raw is as innocent as some of us Indians think it to be. By the very nature of its existence, it's supposed to indulge in dirty work and, though I may not like it, it's the hard truth that every country's intelligence agency has to indulge in such stuff.

Though this is a very minor point, where I disagree with you is the US doing it's homework. Iraq was an homework gone bad. Heck, Afganistan was a homework gone bad. I like to say this, CIA might be very a powerful intelligence agency but it really does not have a great idea as to how terrorism works in this part of the world.

Secondly, not 'all the troops' will be moved, enough for defensive purposes will likely be left by both sides.

I agree to this. I was just trying to convey this point to Mr Omar.

Third, Pakistan will also be redeploying a number of troops away from the border and LoC to expand operations in the North West, and so will not have the capability to launch offensive operations against India either - this would be the entire purpose of such a suggestion.

Absolutely. And that is why I believe US is coming to India, if the report is indeed true because their strategic goal is in danger if India and Pakistan have a level of high alert on the shared border. That is why my first point, that US would not even bother doing the homework whether there is actually such build up of troops or not, and if there is, then how much.

To reiterate, I do believe there is some build up but MHO is that not enough to start a war. Frankly this is where I hate Indian politicians. If we do not intend to wage a war, stop rattling the tail. But I guess PR works better this way. What a waste of time, money, efforts!!!

The Indian's need to think about this possible suggestion and its benefits a little more rationally and less emotionally.

I think my last statement of "what a waste..." conveys the feeling.

Regards,
Anoop.

 

[Trisonics]

I believe the troops are there for a reason and I don't think India will listen to US at this point in time. India must be very concerned that the Taliban may be moving towards Kashmir, if that starts to happen and given the jihadi elements in *** the situation can turn grave for India. I think it will be a bigger headache for India and Pakistan if this happens. Armies on both sides can prevent this!
If US needs more troops it has do something on its own. They may be getting desperate since the situation is not improving. I think US should give Pakistan a chance to try somethings on their own, by bombing the area they are making things difficult for themselves and Pakistan. If this situation continues the biggest loser will be the US, a close second will be Pakistan and the subcontinent.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

I believe the troops are there for a reason ...

Hi Trisonics,
I do not claim to be any expert in either defence or in foreign policies. So I could be wrong here but here is what I think is wrong with the whole picture, "if" the troops are indeed there.

1.) As you rightly mentioned, penetration into Kashmir by Taliban elements is not desirable. In my opinion it would be better if Pakistan has more resources to fight their battle on the western front. That works better for India strategically.

2.) Why make the noise if the intention is to not fight? Build up of troops does not mean patrolling.

3.) The problem between India and Pakistan can not be solved with a war, at least not after their politicians started wear atomic clocks on their wrists. Indian diplomats know this, Pakistan diplomats know this. So the only reason I can see is PR mileage. The world does take notice of such volatile situations. And my point is perhaps with a little more maturity, working in a fixed time frame with realistic goals, both the countries can make better measurable progress than they have ever done in their entire history of existence.

Regards,
Anoop