Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao's Visit to India

[dataminer123]

"Labour cost" is not the same thing as income, it includes other things such as taxes and benefits.

China's average income (GDP per capita) is three times higher than that of India. The reason we can manufacture cheaper is because of infrastructure and machinery.

Just by comparing manufacturing labor cost or wage of two countries does not really tell true story.

China has labor force 831 millions, 27% in industry area
India has labor force 467 millions, 14% in industry area.

Industry labor force in china is almost 4 times as India, i believe this ratio is even higher in manufacturing sector. Majority of manufacturing labor force in China consists of migrant workers coming from poor rural area. In China, "worker" today is not in the same sense of those urban workers decades ago who enjoying "iron bowl" and relatively decent payment. I know some state-own factories laid off urban workers and hire migrant workers with just 1/2 or 1/3 payment.

Also, based on this source: Manufacturing in China

Compensation of manufacturing urban unit is twice as TVE (Town and Village enterprises )

So i am not surprised to see India manufacturing labor cost , even wage is higher than china.

 

[below_freezing]

Neither.

a higher share of Indian labour costs goes to benefits(36%) unlike for China which is 26%



All in all there isn't significant difference between the hourly wages:

$1.71 for India and $1.82 for China.

Source

However, this is looking at it from a savings prespective. we should look at it from an overall cost adding perspective, in which case india's severe problems such as:

corruption, infrastructure, disease, political instability, lack of automation, lack of experience, lack of trained personel

all increase costs and decrease profits.

 

[below_freezing]

Just by comparing manufacturing labor cost or wage of two countries does not really tell true story.

China has labor force 831 millions, 27% in industry area
India has labor force 467 millions, 14% in industry area.

Industry labor force in china is almost 4 times as India, i believe this ratio is even higher in manufacturing sector. Majority of manufacturing labor force in China consists of migrant workers coming from poor rural area. In China, "worker" today is not in the same sense of those urban workers decades ago who enjoying "iron bowl" and relatively decent payment. I know some state-own factories laid off urban workers and hire migrant workers with just 1/2 or 1/3 payment.

Also, based on this source: Manufacturing in China

Compensation of manufacturing urban unit is twice as TVE (Town and Village enterprises )

So i am not surprised to see India manufacturing labor cost , even wage is higher than china.

wages cannot possibly be higher in india; you're going to say that a country with 1/3 our GDP with massive starvation and illiteracy can have higher wages than us? rural migrant workers have food and shelter taken care of for free by the factory even in 1994. why are india's costs higher then? corruption, illiteracy, low per capita productivity, bad infrastructure, political instability, disease.

 

[jbond197]

Nice pics, sort of like when India proclaimed to have a $35 tablet that was in fact a subsidized Chinese product?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...r-tablet-fact-subsidized-chinese-product.html

Don't be stupid.. prove the point you are trying to make. Don't show the pics to make your point. Show from the companies site that they are selling their product to India or something. If you don't have any credible link don't try to prove yourself an idiot.

 

[MickyMouse]

yep your costs are higher but incomes are lower which means your bosses pocketed the difference and your democracy can't do s* about it, or the other possibility is that indians have low IQ, work inefficiently, and don't use automation and machinery to increase efficiency, which one is it?

have you ever been to India in recent times? The government and private sector incomes are quite high without any loss to either source.
What you speak existed in 90s when our economy was just opening.

The average middle class Indian student can afford to spend
$9K on engineering education or double that on medical.

My home a decade ago cost $30+K. Today I can buy a $120K home without financial difficulty.
And you still think India is a backward country

China is ahead of India because you opened in 78 and we opened in 91, system of governance has nothing to do with it.
We have problems, but they are not stopping the rate of our development as a nation.

 

[Sliver]

why is Wen's visit to India turned into a Chine Vs India thread? The leaders are trying for a truce. I think the members should emulate that the leaders are trying for!

China is a big manufacturing hub. Its has its own inherent strengths and weaknesses. So does India. No nation can be at the top forever, nor will it be at the bottom forever. its always a cyclic process.

For both the Chinese and Indian members.. please remember this phrase "this too shall pass"

 

[below_freezing]

have you ever been to India in recent times? The government and private sector incomes are quite high without any loss to either source.
What you speak existed in 90s when our economy was just opening.

The average middle class Indian student can afford to spend
$9K on engineering education or double that on medical.

My home a decade ago cost $30+K. Today I can buy a $120K home without financial difficulty.
And you still think India is a backward country

China is ahead of India because you opened in 78 and we opened in 91, system of governance has nothing to do with it.
We have problems, but they are not stopping the rate of our development as a nation.

indian "engineers" who can't manufacture anything but big talk! grats you can buy a 120K USD house in india, how many can't? vast majority? what are they going to do, sleep on the streets? if indian engineers are so good why is india behind in almost every area of manufacturing? why is india so inefficient?

have to look at the training of indian engineers. except for the top 1% at IIT mumbai, what type of training do they recieve? in china we have mandatory half year internships to give science and engineering students hands on experience. what about india? i've already worked in a clinical lab and a heavy chemical plant, what about indian students?

why can't india win any global contests? why is it restricted to low level outsourced business software? china doesn't depend on outsourcing of business software, we have our own scientific software and real software products.

 

[Shak]

indian "engineers" who can't manufacture anything but big talk! grats you can buy a 120K USD house in india, how many can't? vast majority? what are they going to do, sleep on the streets? if indian engineers are so good why is india behind in almost every area of manufacturing? why is india so inefficient?

have to look at the training of indian engineers. except for the top 1% at IIT mumbai, what type of training do they recieve? in china we have mandatory half year internships to give science and engineering students hands on experience. what about india? i've already worked in a clinical lab and a heavy chemical plant, what about indian students?

why can't india win any global contests? why is it restricted to low level outsourced business software? china doesn't depend on outsourcing of business software, we have our own scientific software and real software products.

Hello BF,

Why you are so negative? Why can’t you see positive side?
Yes we are majorly focused on software and out sourcing jobs but it does not mean we are not developing in other fields. If we are so poor then why highest china politicians are here in india?

Do they know less than you??? China is looking for trade with india and indeed its great thing. It proves that india have capability and potential to grow. Your top most policy maker think so then why you are not ??
We have diff. society here unlike china. Why don’t you see what we have achieved???
We are certainly not best but we are improving. Will u give us time to improve? Little baby can’t run after birth. It will take time.
We have bunch of corrupt politicians here but we are improving. Don’t plant hate seeds it not good either side.

Thanks

 

[StingRoy]

indian "engineers" who can't manufacture anything but big talk! grats you can buy a 120K USD house in india, how many can't? vast majority? what are they going to do, sleep on the streets? if indian engineers are so good why is india behind in almost every area of manufacturing? why is india so inefficient?

Why does it concern you how people are living in India? And who said sleeping on streets is a bad thing?... Have you ever tried sleeping under the shadow of the stars? It is a beautiful experience ... trust me... you should try once... and come back with your experience.

have to look at the training of indian engineers. except for the top 1% at IIT mumbai, what type of training do they recieve? in china we have mandatory half year internships to give science and engineering students hands on experience. what about india? i've already worked in a clinical lab and a heavy chemical plant, what about indian students?

The good thing is that the Indian workforce is so qualified, that they don't need any internships to get experience. The companies are more than happy with the fresh graduates, sometimes even to the extent that they are willing to wait for more than a year for the candidate to join them.

why can't india win any global contests? why is it restricted to low level outsourced business software? china doesn't depend on outsourcing of business software, we have our own scientific software and real software products.

Do we need to win global contests to feed our family... no. How do you know that the business s/w outsourcing is low level? It forms only a small part of the s/w output. Atleast those engineers who perform these so called low level s/w jobs earn more than what they would have earned in a garment or a toys factory. So thanks for your concern, but we are very happy with our low level s/w jobs.

 

[MickyMouse]

indian "engineers" who can't manufacture anything but big talk! grats you can buy a 120K USD house in india, how many can't? vast majority? what are they going to do, sleep on the streets? if indian engineers are so good why is india behind in almost every area of manufacturing? why is india so inefficient?

have to look at the training of indian engineers. except for the top 1% at IIT mumbai, what type of training do they recieve? in china we have mandatory half year internships to give science and engineering students hands on experience. what about india? i've already worked in a clinical lab and a heavy chemical plant, what about indian students?

why can't india win any global contests? why is it restricted to low level outsourced business software? china doesn't depend on outsourcing of business software, we have our own scientific software and real software products.

Based on what? Your blinkered view of reality is laughable. The majority can buy homes like me. I am a normal middle class person.
FYI, We have internship program here, and they are both full year and half year. The exist for engineering, medical and many other graduation courses as well
IIT is not the only engineering college, it is the most celebrated.
We have many many top notch institutes all over the country.
India is behind in manufacturing compared to you because we opened our economy 13 years after you, is that very difficult for you to comprehend. Due to this the no of opportunities in the country were less, and hence there was a brain drain to US, UK etc . . . That is changing big time now, as many opportunities open up here. The picture 10 years from now will be very different for Indian industry.
I do not need a Chinese to teach me the reality of my country, I live there so I do not accept blinkered views made by a person on the basis of media hype and what not.

 

[below_freezing]

Based on what? Your blinkered view of reality is laughable. The majority can buy homes like me. I am a normal middle class person.
FYI, We have internship program here, and they are both full year and half year. The exist for engineering, medical and many other graduation courses as well
IIT is not the only engineering college, it is the most celebrated.
We have many many top notch institutes all over the country.
India is behind in manufacturing compared to you because we opened our economy 13 years after you, is that very difficult for you to comprehend. Due to this the no of opportunities in the country were less, and hence there was a brain drain to US, UK etc . . . That is changing big time now, as many opportunities open up here. The picture 10 years from now will be very different for Indian industry.
I do not need a Chinese to teach me the reality of my country, I live there so I do not accept blinkered views made by a person on the basis of media hype and what not.

middle class in india is rare. you're not behind because you opened your economy late: in 1978 before either of us opened our economies china was STILL AHEAD. the gap has only increased over time. your fellow citizen already said, sleeping in the streets is a beautiful experience, so why ashamed that many of your fellow citizens are having this wonderful time? some call centers in bangalore and a few stock sharks in mumbai can't change the facts of life for 70% of indians who have no chance to improve their lives. in fact, over here we always wonder, how can the poor in india tolerate their plight for 60 years?

 

[MickyMouse]

middle class in india is rare. you're not behind because you opened your economy late: in 1978 before either of us opened our economies china was STILL AHEAD. the gap has only increased over time. your fellow citizen already said, sleeping in the streets is a beautiful experience, so why ashamed that many of your fellow citizens are having this wonderful time? some call centers in bangalore and a few stock sharks in mumbai can't change the facts of life for 70% of indians who have no chance to improve their lives. in fact, over here we always wonder, how can the poor in india tolerate their plight for 60 years?

70% LMAO . . .
FYI Call Centers contribution to Indian economy growth is minuscule. You are living in 90s if you think otherwise.
Like I said, blinkered reality of a non-Indian based on stupid and silly media reports.
Keep calling India poor, backward etc . . . your words do not change reality, just keep your illusion happy . . . enjoy!!
Btw, good for you that you were ahead of us in 1978. So why do you keep harping on the fact that your economy and achievements are better than ours, when you have had such an obvious advantage?

 

[below_freezing]

70% LMAO . . .
FYI Call Centers contribution to Indian economy growth is minuscule. You are living in 90s if you think otherwise.
Like I said, blinkered reality of a non-Indian based on stupid and silly media reports.
Keep calling India poor, backward etc . . . your words do not change reality, just keep your illusion happy . . . enjoy!!
Btw, good for you that you were ahead of us in 1978. So why do you keep harping on the fact that your economy and achievements are better than ours, when you have had such an obvious advantage?

because india needs to be reminded of reality instead of consistently taking steps to make an enemy of china.

 

[MickyMouse]

because india needs to be reminded of our view instead of consistently taking steps to make an enemy of china.

Corrected.
Your reality exists only in your thoughts. Winning a few arguments of internet forums should not be confused with reality.

 

[HongWu]

New Delhi is also a disputed area.

Yes, I agree! For China to be a great nation, China must try to do justice around the world. Starting with its own backyard. Look at South Asia. The British carved up that place, giving too much too the Hindus. The Muslims were cheated out of their fair place in South Asia.

China must right the wrong. New Delhi belongs with Pakistan and Pakistan should stretch across the whole of northern "India," pushing "India" down south toward the sea.

It is China's burden that as a superpower we have to right the world's wrong. It's time for the axe to finally fall on South Asia's injustices.

You can see from the photo that Indian PM's hands are in an attack position. India is getting ready for its "attack." At least they think it's their attack, in the end they will lose everything.

PM Wen's hands are in a protective but non-hostile posture. The Indians have finally gone overboard... they are ready to light up a fire.... and PLA finally gets a chance to let loose all its pent ready tension.