Chinese newspaper vents anger at TSMC over new Arizona fab, calling it a ‘dark turn’ for the global semiconductor industry

[Chat SAMOSA]

Regardless the world should stop relying on CCP for any essential product. Eveytime Winnie the pooh gets cramps, he takes down the Chinse company !mand that's too disruptive.

If Global Times is saying that it must mean Xi got some bad news about CCp's 0.000001nm wafer invention. I'd suggest they can always retool and corner the potato chips market.

 

[gambit]

It has nothing to do with what he said, and furthermore, do you really believe Tesla cannot build car without these Chinese engineer??

Yes, these guys truly believe that.

 

[theBill]

Become engineers with no degree!? Wonder what he really means, anyone can become a TSMC technician

 

[gambit]

Become engineers with no degree!? Wonder what he really means, anyone can become a TSMC technician

Companies are slowly but inevitably ignoring degrees...

No college degree? No problem. More companies are eliminating requirements to attract the workers they need

A growing number of companies, including many in tech, are dropping the requirement for a bachelor's degree for middle-skill and even higher-skill roles.

www.cnbc.com

A growing number of companies, including many in tech, are dropping the requirement for a bachelor’s degree for many middle-skill and even higher-skill roles,...​

It is not just about the shortage of degree-ed workers but companies (re)learned the old knowledge that the best engineer/technician is the one who grew up within. They know the ins and outs of their working areas and processes. As they move up the ranks, you do not need to train them of the roles and responsibilities of the promotion because they have been working under those roles and responsibilities for some time. I have recommended engineering promotions to techs who have only AA or even just long yrs of experience. Personally, I do not care what the tech have done before for other employers but what he is doing now and what can he provide in the future. After three yrs of working for me, that is all I need to know to promote, or not.

 

[Song Hong]

Companies are slowly but inevitably ignoring degrees...

No college degree? No problem. More companies are eliminating requirements to attract the workers they need

A growing number of companies, including many in tech, are dropping the requirement for a bachelor's degree for middle-skill and even higher-skill roles.

www.cnbc.com

A growing number of companies, including many in tech, are dropping the requirement for a bachelor’s degree for many middle-skill and even higher-skill roles,...​

It is not just about the shortage of degree-ed workers but companies (re)learned the old knowledge that the best engineer/technician is the one who grew up within. They know the ins and outs of their working areas and processes. As they move up the ranks, you do not need to train them of the roles and responsibilities of the promotion because they have been working under those roles and responsibilities for some time. I have recommended engineering promotions to techs who have only AA or even just long yrs of experience. Personally, I do not care what the tech have done before for other employers but what he is doing now and what can he provide in the future. After three yrs of working for me, that is all I need to know to promote, or not.

Problems is too much MBA for that sort of things to happen in USA.

 

[Dungeness]

It has nothing to do with what he said, and furthermore, do you really believe Tesla cannot build car without these Chinese engineer??

And he is not wrong too, both COVID and Russian invasion of Ukraine demonstrated strategic supplies line should not be solely relying on one country, that prompted to blackmailing, natural disaster. The early chip shortage in 2020 and the wheat war and oil/gas war in Ukraine shown anyone that it's time to build alternative to the alternative or you will suffer when it's too late.

The world is starting to divert their manufacturing base out of China. And that is going to happen eventually.

Yes, my reply was relevant, and no, Tasla doesn't any Chinese engineer to make cars.

Modern manufacturing is all about process efficiency and cost competitiveness, which calls for highly desciplined and dedicate work force. That's why the whole manufacturing jobs "outsourcing to China" took place in 90's and 00's in the first place, and that's also the reason UAW people in Detroit sledge-hammered Japanese cars in 80's.

Everything else being equal, US workers in general are not as competitive as their EA counterpart, and probably will never be. That's when US government steps in, in the name of "national security". What US government is doing now is against "free trade" capitalism that we have believed in. Morris Chang did not want to move TSMC to Texas, but he had no choice.

His conclusion was wrong. The "World" is a very big place, and it was never just the "world" people in the west think it is. China itself with its 400 million increasingly affluent middle class, is a "world" by itself, not to mention the Rest of "World" outside of West.

 

[jhungary]

Yes, my reply was relevant, and no, Tasla doesn't any Chinese engineer to make cars.

Modern manufacturing is all about process efficiency and cost competitiveness, which calls for highly desciplined and dedicate work force. That's why the whole manufacturing jobs "outsourcing to China" took place in 90's and 00's in the first place, and that's also the reason UAW people in Detroit sledge-hammered Japanese cars in 80's.

Everything else being equal, US workers in general are not as competitive as their EA counterpart, and probably will never be. That's when US government steps in, in the name of "national security". What US government is doing now is against "free trade" capitalism that we have believed in. Morris Chang did not want to move TSMC to Texas, but he had no choice.

His conclusion was wrong. The "World" is a very big place, and it was never just the "world" people in the west think it is. China itself with its 400 million increasingly affluent middle class, is a "world" by itself, not to mention the Rest of "World" outside of West.

You are assuming US will move Manfacturing job back to the US. it will, for the most sensitive category, otherwise they would just divert trade with anyone, unless Joe BIden is that stupid and look at what EU going up now and think "Oh, I wan some of that".

Everything has a threshold. it's about the matrix of productivities, cost and quality. Do not forget China start their own manufacturing capability as a low-cost, low-quality replacement of European and Japanese product, that's how China started. yes, it may or may not acquire the skill, tool or even precision to make high quality product now, but then "The World" could just as easily go back to the old root of getting cheap replacement for Chinese product. Which mean it will stay at a certain level up to a point, and that point had already reached.

On the other hand, yes, the world is a big place, but about 80% of economic activities happened between EU, China and US (Well strictly speaking, North America) and the problem is always is buying power, the term "Middle Class" is relative, what it means is the group of population that is in the middle level of the socioeconomic activities, and that's vary from country to country. What you considered middle class may be grass root in some other country, but then money value would still be the same, which mean the buying power is going to be different in China in a worldwide term, even if you are talking about 400 millions Chinese being middle class. I mean, my next door neighbor drive a tesla, and he is a waiter earning 45,000 a year, I wouldn't not consider him as middle Class, maybe you would if he lives in China. .

 

[Stranagor]

Tue, Dec 13, 2022 page8

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• Talk against TSMC expansion is irrational​

  • By Lai Rung-wei 賴榮偉
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  Talk of “de-Taiwanization” in relation to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co’s (TSMC) establishment of factories in the US is a false, unrealistic and meaningless proposition that appears to have ulterior motives.
  The structuring of the semiconductor industry worldwide is a result of the division of labor and cooperation among countries under the conditions created by globalization.
  The US is the world leader in design, electronic automation tools and manufacturing equipment. The Netherlands is home to the leading maker of photolithography equipment. Japan is the main supplier of tools and chemicals. Taiwan is the main base for original equipment manufacturing of semiconductor components.
  Without the cooperation of these countries, Taiwan would not be able to make its semiconductors. To put it simply, Taiwanese semiconductors are products of globalization.
  By criticizing TSMC’s deployment in the US as “unprofitable” from an economic perspective, those say it is “de-Taiwanization” ignore an inherent characteristic of the development of the semiconductor industry, namely that globalization generates profit.
  Taiwan’s strength lies in the completeness of its industrial chain, which includes world-famous companies in the fields of design, manufacturing, packing and testing, along with numerous peripheral support firms.
  From a technological perspective, Taiwan is the world’s top manufacturing base for silicon wafers. Its weakness is that it relies on foreign suppliers for advanced semiconductor production equipment, while its limited supply of talent in basic scientific research and semiconductors is also cause for concern.
  The US’ strength is that its semiconductor industry is at the forefront of supply and demand, putting it in a key position in the global semiconductor value chain. Notably, it has a considerable advantage in terms of research and development-intensive activities.
  On the downside, the US still depends on other markets to perform key value-chain activities such as wafer fabrication, as well as assembly, packing and testing.
  Consequently, Taiwan’s advantages would not just allow it to continue attracting investment. Indeed, overseas deployments by TSMC and other companies would enable them to each contribute their respective strengths, creating a win-win effect.
  Taiwan can further research and develop higher-value processes and products to drive, create and make up for the deficiencies of its own industry.
  Critics who question overseas deployments in terms of economic costs are deliberately denying the reality that all countries, including Taiwan, have been globalizing.
  In particular, the modern world is interconnected politically and economically. Every government wishes to be self-sufficient in an industry as strategic as semiconductors.
  TSMC’s deployments in the US and Japan do not suffer from the same risks and interference as happens in China, where the Chinese Communist Party directs the economy, employs “united front” tactics, puts ideology in the lead, and seeks to promote state enterprises over private ones and where “communist winds” are on the rise.
  
  The bargaining power of private enterprises in democratic societies cannot be underestimated. Governments and enterprises can be good partners in negotiations to create an environment conducive to industrial development, and this is something that China clearly lacks.
  Seen from these perspectives, accusations of “de-Taiwanization” appear to have an ulterior motive.
  Lai Rung-wei is an assistant professor and former manager of a financial company’s investment research office.
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• https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2022/12/13/2003790612

 

[gambit]

Morris Chang did not want to move TSMC to Texas, but he had no choice.

His conclusion was wrong. The "World" is a very big place, and it was never just the "world" people in the west think it is. China itself with its 400 million increasingly affluent middle class, is a "world" by itself, not to mention the Rest of "World" outside of West.

Wrong. There are always choices.

When you make a decision to go one way or the other, it is because you presumably performed all the necessary cost/benefit analyses and came to a conclusion. TSMC did exactly that and found staying in Taiwan is LIKELY, not assuredly, to be negative to the company over the long term. If you are faced with options, does it mean you want one over the others? No, it does not. You may like one over the others, but the moment you decide to analyze all options, it mean you want nothing in truth. Morris Chang may not like the idea of moving to the US, but ultimately, what he like and/or want is irrelevant in the face of all the analyses TSMC leadership done.

There are always choices.

 

[Dungeness]

Wrong. There are always choices.

When you make a decision to go one way or the other, it is because you presumably performed all the necessary cost/benefit analyses and came to a conclusion. TSMC did exactly that and found staying in Taiwan is LIKELY, not assuredly, to be negative to the company over the long term. If you are faced with options, does it mean you want one over the others? No, it does not. You may like one over the others, but the moment you decide to analyze all options, it mean you want nothing in truth. Morris Chang may not like the idea of moving to the US, but ultimately, what he like and/or want is irrelevant in the face of all the analyses TSMC leadership done.

There are always choices.

By the same logic, there will be no "forced tech transfer" or "coercive business practice" that US government has always accused China of.

 

[gambit]

By the same logic, there will be no "forced tech transfer" or "coercive business practice" that US government has always accused China of.

Why should the US 'forced' TSMC to hand over any technology? TSMC planned to be here BY CHOICE simply because there is nowhere else to go to be safe from China. TSMC will be in the US for a loooooooooooong time.

 

[Dungeness]

Why should the US 'forced' TSMC to hand over any technology? TSMC planned to be here BY CHOICE simply because there is nowhere else to go to be safe from China. TSMC will be in the US for a loooooooooooong time.

You really have no idea about the whole TSMC thing.

 

[gambit]

You really have no idea about the whole TSMC thing.

What I know is probably more than you...

 

[epebble]

By the same logic, there will be no "forced tech transfer" or "coercive business practice" that US government has always accused China of.

to whom? Intel, AMD, Apple, Microsoft, Qualcomm, TI, Google, Amazon? In, U.S., companies are owned privately. All the companies I listed are already working with TSMC. They design what TSMC has to build. The intellectual property remains with the creator of the design.

 

[Dungeness]

to whom? Intel, AMD, Apple, Microsoft, Qualcomm, TI, Google, Amazon? In, U.S., companies are owned privately. All the companies I listed are already working with TSMC. They design what TSMC has to build. The intellectual property remains with the creator of the design.

Private companies, but do they have to follow the sanctions whenever US government seems fit to slap? Do you know what "entity list" is for? Private or not means nothing when comes to geopolitics.