Chinese firm backs out of Jhelum coal power 330MW project

[That Guy]

Coal power project....failed...oh thank God...why do we need these dirty smoke generators in 21 century...We need clean renewable energy resources and nuclear power plants to provide us clean and cheap energy.

Because renewable energy is still inefficient, and nuclear power is expensive.

As unfortunate as it is, coal is Pakistan's current best hope of being energy independent.

 

[war&peace]

Because renewable energy is still inefficient, and nuclear power is expensive.

As unfortunate as it is, coal is Pakistan's current best hope of being energy independent.

Please don't tell me...that's an area of my expertise...Please read Euro 2030 and 2050
By the can you elaborate inefficient in terms of what? so I can reply as per your understanding.

What I can say is perhaps "inefficient" in terms of kickbacks since anyone who is outsourcing the junk of an obsolete technology will be more than happy to pay heavy kickbacks as opposed to the one dealing in the modern clean energy systems of future that are in high demand.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Pakistan should look into renewables.

They kinda are, but the problem with renewable power plants are that they are either quite expensive to construct and don't produce enough energy (Solar), or the construction time is longer ( Hydro ). But you are right the future is of renewable clean energy production.

 

[Viper0011.]

2 Failed mega projects in 2 years !!!! Two .....

Nawaz's own son was 10 year old when he made Millions in Europe age 10 , I say give him the command of both project

Sher ka bacha hai ..... million banata hai even when he is 10 year old

Make him the CEO or Project Manager

Now may be , he will give a billion dollar profit like he did to his offshore accounts

There are over 50 mega projects. Ask anyone on here who's dealt with multiple projects. He or she will tell you that 30% of all projects fail, 50% of all projects run over in some fashion, cost, time, or resources. These are massive operations being run by humans, with thousands of variable factors. So a couple of projects not working out, is just fine. It is in fact expected. Nothing is 100% perfect, I don't know what you want from your leaders. The current team has started and will complete more projects in their 5 years than what has been done in the entire 65 years of history of Pakistan. I don't know what accomplishment is, if this isn't.


Also, have you ever written anything using a little wisdom in your head? Where were you when God was giving sense to humans? Because your posts are rants, angry statements and on sensitive topics, without basic comprehension of the subject you freely jump into sounding like an expert

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Never seen any project fail in China or USA

China 100% successful

But Nawaz sharif's project fail after fail

Places I worked , people get fired if the can't deliver the project on timelines not sure what is happening with Shabaz Sharif and Nawaz Sharif


As I said , let his son Bablu , run the 2 projects I heard when he was 10 year old , he ran Corporations worth Million dollars in Europe. At just tender age of 10 year old

I used to watch cartoons when I was 10

 

[That Guy]

Please don't tell me...that's an area of my expertise...Please read Euro 2030 and 2050
By the can you elaborate inefficient in terms of what? so I can reply as per your understanding.

What I can say is perhaps "inefficient" in terms of kickbacks since anyone who is outsourcing the junk of an obsolete technology will be more than happy to pay heavy kickbacks as opposed to the one dealing in the modern clean energy systems of future that are in high demand.

When you build a capacity of 100MW, you are not going actually gain 100MWs in actual energy. Take a look at the 1000MW solar project that Pakistan is building; right now, only 100MWs has been added, and out of the 100, only 10MWs is useful, due to inefficiency of solar energy, thus a 10% efficiency rate. More expensive panels can take that up to 15% and even 20%, but the financial cost would be enormous.

A similar problem is with Wind, which could give you a lot of enery, or give you nothing, depending on how strong the wind flow is.

Hydroelectricity, you're literally giving up a vast amount of land, to build water resources and increased energy.

Nuclear, far too expensive to build a lot of power plants, plus it carries a lot of geopolitical baggage.
---------------

Admittedly, renewable energy has become cheaper over the decades, and is making strides in efficiency, going from 20% to 35% in a few years....

http://www.sciencealert.com/engineers-just-created-the-most-efficient-solar-cells-ever

...but the issue is that more efficient panels (including the 35%), that compete with traditional power sources, are still a decade away from being consumer ready.


I hope that made sense, I'm still half asleep right now.

Never seen any project fail in China or USA

China 100% successful

But Nawaz sharif's project fail after fail

Are you kidding me? projects in China and US fail all the time, you just never hear about them, because there is usually a back up plan.

Also, comparing Pakistan with China and the US is a bit unfair. Pakistan doesn't have the financial resources that the Chinese and Americans have, to offset any failed project.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

500-700 Million is a lot of money for Project, for past 1 years they are saying it is 80% complete

• Sometimes the company backs out
  
• Sometimes the Project manager quits
  
• Sometimes robbery happens , and all records vanish for purchase and tender orders
• Funniest excuse was oh well the coal quality effects performance or lack of gas. I mean you have Unlimited gas across the border yet folks are complaining about lack of gas

Pakistani companies are always 100% happy with feasibility studies (Day dreaming) when it comes to implementation , red tape - delays

Nawaz sharif has no 1 single competent guy , to report to Prime Minister Sir things are not well on projects stop the $$$ check issuing

See the problem is not failure the problem is no accountability for these folks

You gave a project out and you can't even confirm from company 100% delivery or fine

• Nadi Poor project (Failed - Delayed)
• Nelum Jehlum project (Delayed)
• IPL gas line (Delayed)

3 Attempt and 3 fails

Sure in 1-2 More years it will complete but it will cost 200-400 Million more or may be Billion dollar more ?

 

[war&peace]

When you build a capacity of 100MW, you are not going actually gain 100MWs in actual energy. Take a look at the 1000MW solar project that Pakistan is building; right now, only 100MWs has been added, and out of the 100, only 10MWs is useful, due to inefficiency of solar energy, thus a 10% efficiency rate. More expensive panels can take that up to 15% and even 20%, but the financial cost would be enormous.

A similar problem is with Wind, which could give you a lot of enery, or give you nothing, depending on how strong the wind flow is.

Hydroelectricity, you're literally giving up a vast amount of land, to build water resources and increased energy.

Nuclear, far too expensive to build a lot of power plants, plus it carries a lot of geopolitical baggage.
---------------

Admittedly, renewable energy has become cheaper over the decades, and is making strides in efficiency, going from 20% to 35% in a few years....

http://www.sciencealert.com/engineers-just-created-the-most-efficient-solar-cells-ever

...but the issue is that more efficient panels (including the 35%), that compete with traditional power sources, are still a decade away from being consumer ready.


I hope that made sense, I'm still half asleep right now.

Thank you for kind and educated reply...
Most probably you will read it tomorrow.
Efficiency is in the most fundamental definition is the ration of output to input (eff = output / input ) and there are many different efficiencies namely mechanical, electrical, overall / system, thermal, and economic.
What people focus about is these technical efficiencies but what matters is economic efficiency and we can divide the economic part in two (1) capital investment (2) operational costs
Now lets apply efficiency to the operational cost to the both RES and non-RES systems
eff_op_cost = power sold ($) / operational cost ($)

operational cost = cost of fuel + cost of maintenance + salaries of employees + taxes etc

For RES: cost of fuel = 0, cost of maintenance is minimal (both for solar and wind), salaries of employees is also minimal since of the solar and wind power systems are highly automated and require very few people.....
A whole wind farm in Europe is looked after by one or two trained electricians and the maintenance is also minimal since wear and tear, fatigue, thermal creep and other issues related to elevated temperatures is absent.. I can go on forever about it but I have some engagements with friends so I may add more to it later..

Good night or Good morning

 

[Beyond CMOS]

When you build a capacity of 100MW, you are not going actually gain 100MWs in actual energy. Take a look at the 1000MW solar project that Pakistan is building; right now, only 100MWs has been added, and out of the 100, only 10MWs is useful, due to inefficiency of solar energy, thus a 10% efficiency rate. More expensive panels can take that up to 15% and even 20%, but the financial cost would be enormous.

A similar problem is with Wind, which could give you a lot of enery, or give you nothing, depending on how strong the wind flow is.

Hydroelectricity, you're literally giving up a vast amount of land, to build water resources and increased energy.

Nuclear, far too expensive to build a lot of power plants, plus it carries a lot of geopolitical baggage.
---------------

Admittedly, renewable energy has become cheaper over the decades, and is making strides in efficiency, going from 20% to 35% in a few years..


...but the issue is that more efficient panels (including the 35%), that compete with traditional power sources, are still a decade away from being consumer ready.


I hope that made sense, I'm still half asleep right now.


Are you kidding me? projects in China and US fail all the time, you just never hear about them, because there is usually a back up plan.

Also, comparing Pakistan with China and the US is a bit unfair. Pakistan doesn't have the financial resources that the Chinese and Americans have, to offset any failed project.

The efficiency calculations are not entirely correct. The rated power of a solar power plant (say 100MW) already acoounts for the low solar efficiency (17-19%). At peak Sun one expects 100MW output. However peak Sun occurs only for 4-5 hours in a day. So a 100MW solar plant only generates 500MWh of energy/day. In power speak, that means a low load factor of just 20%. The issue is not of efficiency but lack of sunlight at night.

Also efficiency of solar panels will saturate at 20-22% for the foreseeable future. The technologies that can get >35% are just not scalable enough yet.

 

[somebozo]

Coal power project....failed...oh thank God...why do we need these dirty smoke generators in 21 century...We need clean renewable energy resources and nuclear power plants to provide us clean and cheap energy.

New coal power plants are based on gassification of coal by hydro-cracking which produces clean burning methan, CO and Hydrogen. The coal ashes are contained in sealed vessels and recycled as building materials. New generation of coal plants are cleaner than some oil fired plants.

 

[scorpionx]

Coal power project....failed...oh thank God...why do we need these dirty smoke generators in 21 century...We need clean renewable energy resources and nuclear power plants to provide us clean and cheap energy.

Thermal powerplants come up with electrostatic precipitators which ionize the ash particles, collects it in hoppers before the gas enters the extracting fan (ID fan). So during normal operation time there is practically no emission at all.