Featured China's two aircraft carriers in apparent simultaneous exercises for 1st time: reports

[nahtanbob]

Well, not really, Korea is different from Vietnam. Had China succeeded in pushing the US out of Korea and uniting Korea under the Kim regime then it would have been the best outcome for China. Since Koreans have always had a bigger enmity and hatred of Japan and thus always regarded Japan as their biggest enemy/threat even to this day(they have been kept from open conflict and hostility only because of the US so far). So both Chiba and Korea have common interests. So a united Korea that is communist would have been an even better outcome for Beijing and this would have served as a big ally for China on the region to use against Japan and by extension the US. The fact that China doesn't have a big territorial dispute with Korea helps even more.
Compare this with Vietnam , a country that has always had fights, issues and disagreement with the Chinese and coupled to a large land and sea dispute between the 2 countries. Only a fool couldn't have foreseen that uniting Vietnam (under any regime) would have been against Chinese interests in the region.

United Korea (democratic or Kim) has no problem looking out for itself

 

[SuperStar20]

Damn, not again one more exercise if it true. No one cares about it. Looks like PLA just planting news in Global times for domestic consumption.

 

[Ziggy1977]

I doubt the US would go to war with China if they invade Taiwan, especially if it is a surprise attack and the US does not have enough assets in the area. Most likely total sanctions on China including kicking it out of the dollar system and freezing all Chinese assets. If a massive Chinese buildup was detected early on, the US could have begun to move much greater forces in the Pacific region and thus a showdown would be more likely, since the US would be fighting on greater footing than normal strength.

24 to 36 ... probably around 28.

So only 14 per Carrier.

that not a lot.

compared to the

US Nimitz class being able to carry 40
US Ford Class 50
French DeGaulle Class 30
UK Queen E Class 36

hell the US America Class LHA can carry 20 as can the Wasp Class LHD.

but China needs to finish it 1st none Jump Jet Carriers and move away from those.

Jump Jet Carriers impair their ability to carrier as much munition per jet. it also limited their AEW&C and EW capabilities. since they are limited to using Helicopters platforms for those types of missions. instead of carrier based planes that can fly farther. thus extending their tactical detention ranges. allowing for better 1st strike kill.

 

[Ziggy1977]

I doubt the US would go to war with China if they invade Taiwan, especially if it is a surprise attack and the US does not have enough assets in the area. Most likely total sanctions on China including kicking it out of the dollar system and freezing all Chinese assets. If a massive Chinese buildup was detected early on, the US could have begun to move much greater forces in the Pacific region and thus a showdown would be more likely, since the US would be fighting on greater footing than normal strength.

24 to 36 ... probably around 28.

the US keeps a lot of forces in the region.

the US 7th Fleet is located in Japan with
1 nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier (CVN)
3 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
2 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM)
9 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGM)
1 Landing Helicopters Assault (LHA)
1 Amphibious Command Ship (LCC)
2 Landing Ship Docks (LSD)
1 Landing Transportation Dock (LPD)
4 Mine Countermeasure Ship (MCO)

30 F18E (Modern)
10 F18F (Modern)
44 F16C/D (Capable)
84 Total Jet Fighters.

10 EA18G (electronic Warfare)
5 E-2D (AEW&C)
24 MH-60R (ASW)
12 MR-60S (Tpt)
10 C130J (Transport)


forces located on Okinawa (500 miles from Taiwan)
5th Air Force & MEF 3

3rd Marine Divisions (Weak)

54 F15C/D (Capable)
14 F22A (Advance)
12 F35B (Advance)
24 F18C/D (Capable)
104 Total Jet Fighters.

15 K-135R (Aerial Tankers)
15 KC130J (Aerial Tankers)
2 E-3B (AEW&C)
10 HH-60G (CSAR)
24 MV-22B (Transports)

there is also a always one Carrier Strike Groups (CSG) in the area on patrol.
1 Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier (CVN)
1-2 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
2-3 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM/DDGM)
1-2 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
40 Jet Fighters (usually F35B or F18E/F)
5 EA18G (EW)
12 MH-60R (ASW)
2 E-2D (AEW&C)

not to mention
ROK
7th Air Force HQ
60 F16C/D (Capable)

24 A10C

Guam
12 K135R (Aerial Tanker)
4 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
8 THAAD SAM launchers
1 Marine Exped Brigade (MEB) worth of equipment on ships.


Hawaii
Mid Pacific Surface Group
14 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
2 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
7 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM)
2 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGM)

25th Infantry Division (2 IBCT, 1 Cbt Avn BDE, 1 Logistic BDE) (can be air flow in)
1 NG IBCT (can be air flow in)
1 Marine Exped BDE (can be air flow in)

Alaska
23 F22A (Advance)
1 IBCT (Airborne) (can be air flow in)
1 SBCT (can be air flow in)

then in 40 to 50 hours the US can have long range bombers fire long range cruise missiles


in a month the Marine MEF 1, 1st Corp and the rest of the 3rd Fleet could be in the area of operation
1st Marine Division (3 Marine BDEs, 1 CBT Air Wing, 1 FA BDE)
7th Infantry Division (3 SBCTs, 1 CBT Avn BDE, 1 MRL BDE)
3rd Fleet (3 CVNs, 1 LHA, 4 LHDs, 3 SSN, 11 DDGM, 10 SSGN, 7 CGHM, 10 DDGHM, 2 FFGHM, 11 FFHM, 4 LSD, 6 LPD, 2 MCO). 400 plus Fighter Jets (F35B, F18E/F, F18C/D), 75 AV-8B

and like +1000 Air Force Fighters (F22A, F35A, F15E, F15C/D, F16C/D)

so China would need to win in a month of less or they would be in deep trouble. of course the real issue that would hamper the US Military is the political leadership. the political leadership could say naw taiwan you are on your own. but i doubt that. as it would have all the US allies leave. but it could happen.

 

[ziaulislam]

Brilliant idea. So your idea would have allow US troops to set up base in South Vietnam just like South Korea right in your backyard.

They are already there..
But vietnam an emerging regional power wouldnt been an issue..
Anyway vietnam is vietnam today due to chinese investment ..ironic

 

[ziaulislam]

the US keeps a lot of forces in the region.

the US 7th Fleet is located in Japan with
1 nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier (CVN)
3 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
2 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM)
9 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGM)
1 Landing Helicopters Assault (LHA)
1 Amphibious Command Ship (LCC)
2 Landing Ship Docks (LSD)
1 Landing Transportation Dock (LPD)
4 Mine Countermeasure Ship (MCO)

30 F18E (Modern)
10 F18F (Modern)
44 F16C/D (Capable)
84 Total Jet Fighters.

10 EA18G (electronic Warfare)
5 E-2D (AEW&C)
24 MH-60R (ASW)
12 MR-60S (Tpt)
10 C130J (Transport)


forces located on Okinawa (500 miles from Taiwan)
5th Air Force & MEF 3

3rd Marine Divisions (Weak)

54 F15C/D (Capable)
14 F22A (Advance)
12 F35B (Advance)
24 F18C/D (Capable)
104 Total Jet Fighters.

15 K-135R (Aerial Tankers)
15 KC130J (Aerial Tankers)
2 E-3B (AEW&C)
10 HH-60G (CSAR)
24 MV-22B (Transports)

there is also a always one Carrier Strike Groups (CSG) in the area on patrol.
1 Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier (CVN)
1-2 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
2-3 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM/DDGM)
1-2 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
40 Jet Fighters (usually F35B or F18E/F)
5 EA18G (EW)
12 MH-60R (ASW)
2 E-2D (AEW&C)

not to mention
ROK
7th Air Force HQ
60 F16C/D (Capable)

24 A10C

Guam
12 K135R (Aerial Tanker)
4 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
8 THAAD SAM launchers
1 Marine Exped Brigade (MEB) worth of equipment on ships.


Hawaii
Mid Pacific Surface Group
14 Nuclear powered Guided Missile Submarines (SSGN)
2 Guided Missile Cruisers (CGHM)
7 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGHM)
2 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDGM)

25th Infantry Division (2 IBCT, 1 Cbt Avn BDE, 1 Logistic BDE) (can be air flow in)
1 NG IBCT (can be air flow in)
1 Marine Exped BDE (can be air flow in)

Alaska
23 F22A (Advance)
1 IBCT (Airborne) (can be air flow in)
1 SBCT (can be air flow in)

then in 40 to 50 hours the US can have long range bombers fire long range cruise missiles


in a month the Marine MEF 1, 1st Corp and the rest of the 3rd Fleet could be in the area of operation
1st Marine Division (3 Marine BDEs, 1 CBT Air Wing, 1 FA BDE)
7th Infantry Division (3 SBCTs, 1 CBT Avn BDE, 1 MRL BDE)
3rd Fleet (3 CVNs, 1 LHA, 4 LHDs, 3 SSN, 11 DDGM, 10 SSGN, 7 CGHM, 10 DDGHM, 2 FFGHM, 11 FFHM, 4 LSD, 6 LPD, 2 MCO). 400 plus Fighter Jets (F35B, F18E/F, F18C/D), 75 AV-8B

and like +1000 Air Force Fighters (F22A, F35A, F15E, F15C/D, F16C/D)

so China would need to win in a month of less or they would be in deep trouble. of course the real issue that would hamper the US Military is the political leadership. the political leadership could say naw taiwan you are on your own. but i doubt that. as it would have all the US allies leave. but it could happen.

Usa would not save taiwan..
May be korea & japan but not taiwan

 

[Akasa]

Let's face it; they're training vessels hailing from a bygone Soviet era and that are being run with an insufficient airwing and inexperienced crew.

Granted, it's an important step for the Chinese, but to view them as a combat threat to US forces is a joke.

 

[Akasa]

You're certainly more subtle than the common Pajeet, "Sino"Soldier, but your attempts to throw shade on China still don't rise above ineptitude. You know what the real threat is...

Let me clue you in on a little secret: The real threat of the DF-26 and its like is that they buy China the time and strategic space to develop its navy unmolested. China will churn out carrier after carrier, nuclear submarine after nuclear submarine, destroyer after destroyer, and there's nothing the US can do about it but look and sweat.

So, if we remove all the pomp and posturing from what you've written, we're still in agreement - albeit tacitly - that the two vessels are merely training carriers with little to no combat capability at this point, right?

Glad we're on the same page.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Glad we're on the same page.

We're nothing of the kind.

So, if we remove all the pomp and posturing from what you've written, we're still in agreement - albeit tacitly - that the two vessels are merely training carriers with little to no combat capability at this point, right?

Wrong. I hope you didn't think you'd actually get that feeble piece of sophistry past me. Do I have to explain the difference between "little to no combat capability" and "combat threat to US forces" to you?

 

[Akasa]

Wrong. I hope you didn't think you'd actually get that feeble piece of sophistry past me. Do I have to explain the difference between "little to no combat capability" and "combat threat to US forces" to you?

LOL there is little sophistry in this when even you guys admit so. The Liaoning and Shandong have little combat capability at this point and any purpose they serve is token at best.

 

[Figaro]

So only 14 per Carrier.

that not a lot.

compared to the

US Nimitz class being able to carry 40
US Ford Class 50
French DeGaulle Class 30
UK Queen E Class 36

hell the US America Class LHA can carry 20 as can the Wasp Class LHD.

but China needs to finish it 1st none Jump Jet Carriers and move away from those.

Jump Jet Carriers impair their ability to carrier as much munition per jet. it also limited their AEW&C and EW capabilities. since they are limited to using Helicopters platforms for those types of missions. instead of carrier based planes that can fly farther. thus extending their tactical detention ranges. allowing for better 1st strike kill.

No sorry I meant 24 to 36 aircraft per carrier. As for the ski jump, I agree the first two ships strength will not be anywhere close to the one offered by their third carrier, which has the same catapults as the Ford class.

LOL there is little sophistry in this when even you guys admit so. The Liaoning and Shandong have little combat capability at this point and any purpose they serve is token at best.

24 to 36 J-15s per carrier is of little combat capability? Are you serious? You've been on SDF and PDF for a very long time to know this is not true. They are not capable compared to the 003 or Nimitz/Ford that is true but they are very capable carriers nonetheless.

 

[Ziggy1977]

so far everything i have seen shows they don't have a lot of J15 and the carriers only carry max 24 fighters. but mostly only carry 18.

the problem with the J15 is it weak engines. because of this they can't carry as many missiles and have limited range when taken off from a carrier.


and no the current china carriers are not a major threat. because of the lack of range on their AEW&C assets.

the real roles are as trainers for the crew, pilots and command for future CV and how to deploy and use them in combat.

which china has cut from a planned 6 to 4.


the current carriers are equal to the USA's LHAs, LHDs and soon Japan's CVSs.

 

[Figaro]

the problem with the J15 is it weak engines. because of this they can't carry as many missiles and have limited range when taken off from a carrier.

I don't think it has anything to do with the J-15 power plant; the WS-10H and AL-31Fs used are actually more powerful (135 to 140 kN) than the AL-31F3 variant (126 kN) used by the Russian Su-33, which has the same aerodynamic configuration. The main problem is the ski jump, which limits the payload (and hence the need for a catapult carrier).

which china has cut from a planned 6 to 4.

This came from a bogus report from SCMP. A reliable insider who previously worked at CSSC (responsible for building aircraft carriers) said China was aiming for 10 carriers by 2035. Whether this will pan out only time will tell but we can definitely say the Chinese have not scaled back anything at all (if anything they have done the opposite).

 

[zectech]

J-15s radar needs to be upgraded for air war against F-35s to improve the capabilities of these two carriers.

Italy has Harriers on one of our carriers. And F-35s to be delivered on the other. There is a huge difference.

You need a carrier task group to better utilize the 001/002.

 

[bolo]

Most likely total sanctions on China including kicking it out of the dollar system

Wrong analysis. Last thing US want is for other countries not using their dollar.