China's Summer Palace to mark looting anniversary

[CardSharp]

Breakdown of the Eight-nation alliance that took part in the destruction and looting.

Countries Warships Marines Army
Japan 18 540 20,300
Russia 10 750 12,400
United Kingdom 8 2,020 10,000
France 5 390 3,130
United States 2 295 3,125
Germany 5 600 300
Italy 2 80
Austria–Hungary 1 75
Total 51 4,750 49,255

To fairness for the US, it was the only country that didn't take the loot and run. It created the Boxer-indemnity scholarship and established universities evolved into some of China's top institutions today.

The country I find hardest to forgive are the British and the Japanese. The British because they and others in the west will never admit to the fact that it caused much more death and suffering than the Nazis ever did and Japan well, no explanation needed I guess, but I'll just say what Churchill said about the Germans apply to the Japanese. "They are at your feet or at your throat"

 

[CardSharp]

language is not a barrier throughout the world btw. india and the west speak the same language and therefore the transfusion of culture is very very easy.

we're never going to be copying chinese mannerisms, clothing or entertainment habits as easily or to the same extent as we copy the west.

Oh undoubtedly so, but the language barrier may not be there for long. I confidently predict English will become the unofficial second language of China if it isn't already. Mothers in China are fanatical about their children learning English and it is already the language by which academia and business functions.

As for Chinese mannerisms and clothing, I don't think anyone in China is asking the world for that, seeing as the west has the same impact there as places like India.

 

[justanobserver]

Actually the topic makes me sad.

You guys have an anniversary for this sort of thing. While we look the other way when the Brit PM laughs off our claim to the Kohinoor, I partly blame this on our school history books which were 'sanitized'

China and India (Egyptians too) should raid the British museums

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

We as people are attracted by the sensational, but we should weigh objectively "the greatest good for the greatest number" and this is not accomplished by caving in to the wishes of a privileged few.

As John Stewart Mills said, The principle of utility states that an action is "right if it produces as much or more of an increase in happiness of all affected by it than any alternative action, and wrong if it does not"

That's what it usually comes down to in China... "the greatest good for the greatest number".

Maybe the Chinese were the first "ultilitarians". (j/k)

I once had to write an essay criticising utilitarianism, and despite its admittedly numerous flaws, I still think it is a very useful system.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I realize that China has a serious PR problem and that as long as the government restricts private freedoms in a way that westerners find uncomfortable, Chinese culture will have trouble being accepted, BUT right now it's a cost-benefit decision. These restrictions cannot be lifted, China is still too poor and the the standards of living for most people too low for it to consider mollifying policies over harsh developmental ones. It would be the great sin to leave those who are poor in their current condition than to give these pro-democracy rich kids their political say in how the country should be run.

I have very little sympathy for these people just based on their socio-economic status. It is rarely the desperate poor who are in an uproar because twitter was blocked, the truly folks trying to make ends meet will be relying on continuing development to survive.

We as people are attracted by the sensational, but we should weigh objectively "the greatest good for the greatest number" and this is not accomplished by caving in to the wishes of a privileged few.

As John Stewart Mills said, The principle of utility states that an action is "right if it produces as much or more of an increase in happiness of all affected by it than any alternative action, and wrong if it does not"

CardSharp,
You seem to have misunderstood one point of my submission, i used the word "human" not "humane". In other words i did not seek to comment about "private freedoms". Though i have some opinions about that but i do not intend to bring that up.
i meant human in a different sense. Take for example a (seemingly) little thing like Chinese food. It has been enthusiastically accepted by even the most ordinary people in India, you may not believe it, but it is part of street-food culture in India. And you may find it so amusing to observe that some people who find China the "incorrigible aggressor" on India enjoy Chinese (Indianised) food.
Now that is the kind of place to begin, even "Kung-Fu" movies is another constructive way- soft power

 

[no_name]

To fairness for the US, it was the only country that didn't take the loot and run. It created the Boxer-indemnity scholarship and established universities evolved into some of China's top institutions today.

The country I find hardest to forgive are the British and the Japanese. The British because they and others in the west will never admit to the fact that it caused much more death and suffering than the Nazis ever did and Japan well, no explanation needed I guess, but I'll just say what Churchill said about the Germans apply to the Japanese. "They are at your feet or at your throat"

British looted the most (and the most orderly at that!). Russians comitted alot of atrocities. Germans were the worst relative to their size even though they arrived too late for the main action.

But whatever, its a depressing thread.

 

[CardSharp]

CardSharp,
You seem to have misunderstood one point of my submission, i used the word "human" not "humane". In other words i did not seek to comment about "private freedoms". Though i have some opinions about that but i do not intend to bring that up.
i meant human in a different sense. Take for example a (seemingly) little thing like Chinese food. It has been enthusiastically accepted by even the most ordinary people in India, you may not believe it, but it is part of street-food culture in India. And you may find it so amusing to observe that some people who find China the "incorrigible aggressor" on India enjoy Chinese (Indianised) food.
Now that is the kind of place to begin, even "Kung-Fu" movies is another constructive way- soft power

I know I just felt like ranting

British looted the most (and the most orderly at that!). Russians comitted alot of atrocities. Germans were the worst relative to their size even though they arrived too late for the main action.

But whatever, its a depressing thread.

Yep, but they'll not own up or stop accusing China of being unlawful and brutes.

That's what it usually comes down to in China... "the greatest good for the greatest number".

Maybe the Chinese were the first "ultilitarians". (j/k)

I once had to write an essay criticising utilitarianism, and despite its admittedly numerous flaws, I still think it is a very useful system.

I think it is the most logical philosophy for China right now. The sad thing is that very few westerners are willing to consider the situation this way. (Not saying they don't exist, but they are mainly academics who are largely apolitical)

Actually the topic makes me sad.

You guys have an anniversary for this sort of thing. While we look the other way when the Brit PM laughs off our claim to the Kohinoor, I partly blame this on our school history books which were 'sanitized'

China and India (Egyptians too) should raid the British museums

Well it's a trade-off, either you swallow your pride and forget the past or you are defiant and the west labels you as bellicoseness.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China and India (Egyptians too) should raid the British museums

That sounds like a plan to me.

Some Chinese people here in HK, have been paying millions, just to return ONE piece of stolen artwork back to China.

They really are beautiful though. I don't know much about art, but there are some truly beautiful pieces. For example, I saw a picture in a newspaper... it was a sculpture of an Ox, that was made completely out of Jade.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually the topic makes me sad.

You guys have an anniversary for this sort of thing. While we look the other way when the Brit PM laughs off our claim to the Kohinoor, I partly blame this on our school history books which were 'sanitized'

China and India (Egyptians too) should raid the British museums

Well it is something to feel bad about, but speaking for myself; i am willing to wait for the time when India will offer to buy the Kohinoor and the British will be obliged to sell.
Seeing British Royalty merrily riding around in cars built by a company owned by Indians (even i have shares) is just a beginning.

 

[think]

i am ignorant of chinese history, but how did china not fall victim to full blown colonialism the way india did?

 

[CardSharp]

i am ignorant of chinese history, but how did china not fall victim to full blown colonialism the way india did?

It didn't but it did fall prey to coercion and some pretty disgusting tactics. The British combination of gun boats, Christianity and Opium broke down the traditional Chinese family and society and rendered it into powerless essentially.

 

[justanobserver]

not fall victim to full blown colonialism the way india did?

Maybe because they were still one big empire. When the British came we were a bunch of fighting kingdoms, if only Dara Shikoh succeeded as emperor instead of Aurangzeb...

 

[CardSharp]

Well it is something to feel bad about, but speaking for myself; i am willing to wait for the time when India will offer to buy the Kohinoor and the British will be obliged to sell.
Seeing British Royalty merrily riding around in cars built by a company owned by Indians (even i have shares) is just a beginning.

I am waiting for the day that Chinese artifacts will be offered as good will gestures sealing trade agreements with the UK. Also rich Chinese have begun to buy back private pieces and donating them to national museums, this is a trend that can only get strong as China becomes richer.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It didn't but it did fall prey to coercion and some pretty disgusting tactics. The British combination of gun boats, Christianity and Opium broke down the traditional Chinese family and society and rendered it into powerless essentially.

That's right. We had our "Century of humiliation" (bai nian guo chi) at the hands of foreign powers.

China never became a full colony, but it didn't need to. Qing China was so weak, that it essentially became a tributary state, to the West and to Japan.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I know I just felt like ranting


Well it's a trade-off, either you swallow your pride and forget the past or you are defiant and the west labels you as bellicoseness.

Hey CardSharp,
May be i'm an "old monkey" (chronologically compared to you), but i do feel that i'd like to focus on what i'm doing and and where i'd intend to go. As for perceptions of "pride", "defiance" "bellicosity" and so on, they are only perceptions. In Indian philosophy we have a (apt) word for it "Maya" which loosely translates as "imaginary, make-believe, unreal, perception" but real enough to be able to hold you in to its clutches.
i am happy being a "patient old monkey". If the path is clear the destination will have to be reached.

How does it matter what the West (or anybody else) thinks.