China's Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024, will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world

[beijingwalker]

China's Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024, will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world​

By Boyko Nikolov On Apr 6, 2023

BEIJING, CHINA — Starting next year, China will begin phasing in its latest WS-15 engine on the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter. The second half of 2024 is said to be when this will happen.

The reason for such claims is the latest test of the J-20 with the WS-15. It was done at the end of March, and at the beginning of April, the first photos from the test appeared. By the way, it is the last photos that are the most clearly taken of all so far, which confirm the testing of the new engine. According to some media reports, the WS-15 has already entered serial production.

The most recent test that was documented shows the use of a second J-20 prototype. A J-20 with a WS-15 engine was reportedly first spotted in the sky early last year. Despite the many sightings of this test, China has not provided clear pictures, leading to mixed opinions and speculation. But Beijing officially confirmed that their stealth fighter was tested with this power unit.

The engines of the J-20​

According to open data, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army [PLA] Air Force has at least 200 J-20s in its inventory [not including the six prototypes]. Some of them are powered by the Russian AL-31FM2 engine. These are the first fighters to come off serial production since the end of 2016 and the beginning of 2017. However, China never liked this engine, so sometime in 2019 they integrated their WS-10C sometime in mid-2019.

The WS-10C showed good performance but was not enough for the capabilities of the J-20. Beijing decided to begin final testing and integration of the WS-15, which not only had to meet expectations but also brought the fighter to its “best years.” In fact, WS-15 has been in development since the 1990s, but only recently has it made serious technological progress.

What will the WS-15 do to the J-20?​

It turns out that the biggest development challenge of the entire J-20 stealth program is the engine itself. Asian experts claim that this engine is a technological marvel. These comments of course mostly come from claims inaccessible to Chinese media.

Photo credit: ADN


The WS-15 is supposed to be the best engine in its class, challenging the world’s other two mass-produced fifth-generation stealth fighters, the US F-35 and F-22. The WS-15 has an afterburner thrust of approximately 19 tons, which will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world. For comparison, the American F-22 Raptor powered by the F119 has a thrust of 17.5 tons.

In China, they claim that the avionics of their J-20 is much more advanced and modern than that of the two American stealth fighters. It is the WS-15 that is expected to provide more power for onboard sensors and other avionics. This engine should make China’s Mighty Dragon more maneuverable and power future-directed energy weapons.

A modification of the J-20​

As we said, the penultimate test of the Chinese power block was in December 2022. However, according to unconfirmed information, China used a new version of the J-20 – a modified one. However, then, firstly, the photos were not clear, and secondly, Beijing was silent about some features.

Now there are also no official statements from the leadership of the PLA, but several claims have appeared. One of them is that the WS-15 will provide much higher supersonic speeds without the use of afterburners. In comparison, the current J-20 WS-10C engine also reaches supersonic speed without afterburners, but they are low.

If this information is confirmed, it means that within a few months, China has been able to modify the J-20 fighter to make better use of the engine improvements.

The status of the J-20​

Beijing has been developing its fifth-generation stealth fighter for a long time, but at the same time, it is quickly mass-producing it. In 2021, the J-20 entered serial production, and by now China already has 200 fighters.

Photo credit: eng.chinamil.com.cn

If we look at these numbers and compare them with all the aircraft in the world, only the F-35 as a foreign fighter is produced at a faster rate. The other is the J-10C, but it is single-engined, also indigenous, and in a completely different category. China is said to be capable of producing 40 launchers per year.

The F-35 and J-20 have already met in the air. This happened last year in March over the East China Sea.

Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024

Starting the second half of next year, China will begin phasing in its latest WS-15 engine on the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter.

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[beijingwalker]

Just a couple of years ago many haters here claimed that it would take China multiply decades to produce a decent jet engine, they regularly trolled China about its engines.

 

[Dalit]

What an incredible beast. The J-20 is a monster.

No wonder the Americans are obsessed with China. 24/7 it is China mania.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

China's Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024, will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world​

By Boyko Nikolov On Apr 6, 2023

BEIJING, CHINA — Starting next year, China will begin phasing in its latest WS-15 engine on the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter. The second half of 2024 is said to be when this will happen.

The reason for such claims is the latest test of the J-20 with the WS-15. It was done at the end of March, and at the beginning of April, the first photos from the test appeared. By the way, it is the last photos that are the most clearly taken of all so far, which confirm the testing of the new engine. According to some media reports, the WS-15 has already entered serial production.

The most recent test that was documented shows the use of a second J-20 prototype. A J-20 with a WS-15 engine was reportedly first spotted in the sky early last year. Despite the many sightings of this test, China has not provided clear pictures, leading to mixed opinions and speculation. But Beijing officially confirmed that their stealth fighter was tested with this power unit.

The engines of the J-20​

According to open data, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army [PLA] Air Force has at least 200 J-20s in its inventory [not including the six prototypes]. Some of them are powered by the Russian AL-31FM2 engine. These are the first fighters to come off serial production since the end of 2016 and the beginning of 2017. However, China never liked this engine, so sometime in 2019 they integrated their WS-10C sometime in mid-2019.

The WS-10C showed good performance but was not enough for the capabilities of the J-20. Beijing decided to begin final testing and integration of the WS-15, which not only had to meet expectations but also brought the fighter to its “best years.” In fact, WS-15 has been in development since the 1990s, but only recently has it made serious technological progress.

What will the WS-15 do to the J-20?​

It turns out that the biggest development challenge of the entire J-20 stealth program is the engine itself. Asian experts claim that this engine is a technological marvel. These comments of course mostly come from claims inaccessible to Chinese media.

Photo credit: ADN


The WS-15 is supposed to be the best engine in its class, challenging the world’s other two mass-produced fifth-generation stealth fighters, the US F-35 and F-22. The WS-15 has an afterburner thrust of approximately 19 tons, which will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world. For comparison, the American F-22 Raptor powered by the F119 has a thrust of 17.5 tons.

In China, they claim that the avionics of their J-20 is much more advanced and modern than that of the two American stealth fighters. It is the WS-15 that is expected to provide more power for onboard sensors and other avionics. This engine should make China’s Mighty Dragon more maneuverable and power future-directed energy weapons.

A modification of the J-20​

As we said, the penultimate test of the Chinese power block was in December 2022. However, according to unconfirmed information, China used a new version of the J-20 – a modified one. However, then, firstly, the photos were not clear, and secondly, Beijing was silent about some features.

Now there are also no official statements from the leadership of the PLA, but several claims have appeared. One of them is that the WS-15 will provide much higher supersonic speeds without the use of afterburners. In comparison, the current J-20 WS-10C engine also reaches supersonic speed without afterburners, but they are low.

If this information is confirmed, it means that within a few months, China has been able to modify the J-20 fighter to make better use of the engine improvements.

The status of the J-20​

Beijing has been developing its fifth-generation stealth fighter for a long time, but at the same time, it is quickly mass-producing it. In 2021, the J-20 entered serial production, and by now China already has 200 fighters.

Photo credit: eng.chinamil.com.cn

If we look at these numbers and compare them with all the aircraft in the world, only the F-35 as a foreign fighter is produced at a faster rate. The other is the J-10C, but it is single-engined, also indigenous, and in a completely different category. China is said to be capable of producing 40 launchers per year.

The F-35 and J-20 have already met in the air. This happened last year in March over the East China Sea.

Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024

Starting the second half of next year, China will begin phasing in its latest WS-15 engine on the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter.

bulgarianmilitary.com

This is a HUGE development. It means China's indigenous technological and scientific capabilities are now at the same level of western Europe and america, exceeding that of the russians. It also means that Pakistan potentially no longer needs russian engines for the JF-17.

 

[Dalit]

This is a HUGE development. It means China's indigenous technological and scientific capabilities are now at the same level of western Europe and america, exceeding that of the russians. It also means that Pakistan potentially no longer needs russian engines for the JF-17.

I said the same thing years ago. On PDF and other forums. China will catch up and when they do it will be a smack on the faces of the haters. Make no mistake. The dragon has silently been working hard for prosperity and advancement. Despite all the hate, criticism and vitriol China is today reaping the rewards of determination and hard work.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I said the same thing years ago. On PDF and other forums. China will catch up and when they do it will be a smack on the faces of the haters. Make no mistake. The dragon has silently been working hard for prosperity and advancement. Despite all the hate, criticism and vitriol China is today reaping the rewards of determination and hard work.

This also means that China will become the world's first ever global hyperpower. Really bad news for China's enemies.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Just a couple of years ago many haters here claimed that it would take China multiply decades to produce a decent jet engine, they regularly trolled China about its engines.

China will produce a decent engine when we know the thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates of the engines that can be benchmarked across all other engine types and we can make an assesment of that.

Until we know that - it is all hype. It is one thing to design an engine that can reach a specific thrust - but it is another thing for that to be reliable, cost effective with comparable thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates against the likes of GE, Rolls Royce etc..

RD-93s produce thrust comparable to western engines, but with fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates that are poor compared to western engines like EJ2000 etc..

 

[beijingwalker]

China will produce a decent engine when we know the thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates of the engines that can be benchmarked across all other engine types and we can make an assesment of that.

Until we know that - it is all hype. It is one thing to design an engine that can reach a specific thrust - but it is another thing for that to be reliable, cost effective with comparable thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates against the likes of GE, Rolls Royce etc..

RD-93s produce thrust comparable to western engines, but with fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates that are poor compared to western engines like EJ2000 etc..

China never mass produces immature engines, this engine has been tested for decade. China sent sections of space station up to space and operated dockings and undlockings, returnings to earth with perfect accuracy and success with many launches, the same way China works on its aircrafts and engines.

 

[renhai]

China will produce a decent engine when we know the thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates of the engines that can be benchmarked across all other engine types and we can make an assesment of that.

Until we know that - it is all hype. It is one thing to design an engine that can reach a specific thrust - but it is another thing for that to be reliable, cost effective with comparable thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates against the likes of GE, Rolls Royce etc..

RD-93s produce thrust comparable to western engines, but with fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates that are poor compared to western engines like EJ2000 etc..

Don't always play with rubbish Turks. They will control your IQ... See what the elite Turks say.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500044884090130436

 

[Ali_Baba]

Don't always play with rubbish Turks. They will control your IQ... See what the elite Turks say.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500044884090130436

Right - but is the WS-15 Russian good or Western good ??

 

[renhai]

Right - but is the WS-15 Russian good or Western good ??

Turkey is the best. lol

 

[renhai]

Right - but is the WS-15 Russian good or Western good ??

Please promise me. You must use the Turkish engine! You know that Turkish engine is the world no.1.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Please promise me. You must use the Turkish engine! You know that Turkish engine is the world no.1.

You are talking this thread to in an absurd illlogical direction ... the question and issue still remains ..

 

[renhai]

You are talking this thread to in an absurd illlogical direction ... the question and issue still remains ..

When you question China's military equipment, it's already absurd and illogical.


Then you raise some questions. Ask Chinese to answer. But why do Chinese tell you?

China has no obligation to satisfy your curiosity. China doesn't want to tell you these major equipment data. So I suggest you buy a Turkey engine.

Don't waste each other's time. If you learn to reflect on yourself. I believe your country will be better.

 

[hyperman]

Would be interesting to see how the WS-15 compares to the F135. Anyone got a side by side comparison?

edit: the only thing I could find was this.

Xian WS-15​

Specifications​

Data from School of Mechanical Engineering,Shandong University[11]

General characteristics​

• Type: Afterburning turbofan
• Length: 5.05m
• Diameter: 1.02m
• Dry weight: 1701.5 kg

Components​

• Compressor: axial flow
• Combustors: nickel alloy annular combustion chamber
• Turbine: single-stage high pressure, single-stage low pressure

Performance​

• Maximum thrust:
  • 105.22 kN (23,654 lbf) (military thrust)
  • 161.865–181.37 kN (36,389–40,774 lbf)[12](afterburner)
• Overall pressure ratio: 30.5[13]
• Bypass ratio: 0.25[14]
• Air mass flow: 138kg/s
• Turbine inlet temperature: 1,850 K (1,580 °C; 2,870 °F)[13]
• Specific fuel consumption:
  • 2.02kg/N/h (afterburner)
  • 0.665kg/N/h (Intermediate)
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 9.7-10.87[12]

Pratt & Whitney F135​

Specifications (F135)​

F135-PW-100[edit]​

Data from Pratt & Whitney,[4] Tinker Air Force Base,[51] American Society of Mechanical Engineers[52]

General characteristics​

• Type: Two-spool, axial flow, augmented turbofan
• Length: 220 in (5,590 mm)
• Diameter: 46 in (1,170 mm) max., 43 in (1,090 mm) at the fan inlet
• Dry weight: 3,750 lb (1,700 kg)

Components​

• Compressor: 3-stage fan, 6-stage high-pressure compressor
• Combustors: annular combustor
• Turbine: 1-stage high-pressure turbine, 2-stage low-pressure turbine
• Bypass ratio: 0.57:1

Performance​

• Maximum thrust:
  • 28,000 lbf (125 kN) military thrust,
  • 43,000 lbf (191 kN) with afterburner
• Overall pressure ratio: 28:1
• Turbine inlet temperature: 3,600 °F (1,980 °C; 2,260 K)
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.47:1 military thrust, 11.47:1 augmented

Pratt & Whitney F135 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shenyang WS-15 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

seems the F135 still seems to be better in the overall thrust and thrust to weight ratio. But the WS-15 seems to be a big step for China, we will see how mass production goes though.

It should be interesting to see how this develops as next gen engines from GE and Pratt and Whitney with Adaptive cycles get developed.

General Electric XA100 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pratt & Whitney XA101 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It also means that Pakistan potentially no longer needs russian engines for the JF-17.

Yes and no. The J-10s no longer need a Russian Engine considering the WS-10B has matured over the years but the JF-17s are still using the RD-93s b/c the WS-13 has so far been unsatisfactory, and the WS-19 is still in development, so I predict Pakistan will still likely be buying RD-93s(if Russia can even produce them with the current war) for the time being.

Turkey is the best. lol

Wtf does this thread have to do with Turkey? lol Its a thread about Chinese engines and really the only comparison mentioned was to US 5th gen fighters and their engines.