China’s regular army before the fall of the Qing Empire in the 1900s

[tower9]

It is China's greatest historical tragedy that the Qing Dynasty could not modernize like Japan's Meiji period. If the Qing had quickly modernized and industrialized after the first Opium war, China would've become a veritable superpower in the great game overtaking all of its European rivals by the late 19th century.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is China's greatest historical tragedy that the Qing Dynasty could not modernize like Japan's Meiji period. If the Qing had quickly modernized and industrialized after the first Opium war, China would've become a veritable superpower in the great game overtaking all of its European rivals by the late 19th century.

Only CPC can modernize China.

The Qing Dynasty was very strong in the standard of a Chinese dynasty, but losing to the European powers was self-explanatory and not in any coincidence. And because of China's humiliated defeat like this, the revolutionary political party like CPC could thrive and the new China could be reborn from ashes.

 

[tower9]

Only CPC can modernize China.

The Qing Dynasty was very strong in the standard of a Chinese dynasty, but losing to the European powers was self-explanatory and not in any coincidence. And because of China's humiliated defeat like this, the revolutionary political party like CPC could thrive and the new China could be reborn from ashes.

Probably, because China having to adapt to a world where another civilization was now paramount and more advanced was too traumatizing, that is why it couldn't adapt quickly like Japan did.

However, there were reformers in the Qing government that consistently pushed for wide ranging reforms but they were constantly squashed. The 19th century was the last time empires made massive land grabs so China really failed in securing territory for its future generations.

 

[Mista]

Probably, because China having to adapt to a world where another civilization was now paramount and more advanced was too traumatizing, that is why it couldn't adapt quickly like Japan did.

However, there were reformers in the Qing government that consistently pushed for wide ranging reforms but they were constantly squashed. The 19th century was the last time empires made massive land grabs so China really failed in securing territory for its future generations.

The Qing is too proud to reform and adopt certain aspects of foreign systems. Not to mention the vested interests involved to devolve power.

The Japanese are more pragmatic. They knew they couldn't defeat the Americans and they were behind Western powers, so they send their scholars to learn new ideas from them and coined new terms. These new terms and ideas were adopted by China later on.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

If only China had jumped onto the western war technology half a century before, but alas the late Chinese kings were idiots. Reading their letters to the European royalty is teeth grindingly painful

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Probably, because China having to adapt to a world where another civilization was now paramount and more advanced was too traumatizing, that is why it couldn't adapt quickly like Japan did.

However, there were reformers in the Qing government that consistently pushed for wide ranging reforms but they were constantly squashed. The 19th century was the last time empires made massive land grabs so China really failed in securing territory for its future generations.

Actually, the Qing did a good job of consolidating China's modern border. Without the transition from the Qing Dynasty, the modern PRC simply couldn't claim nearly 10 million square kilometers of lands, and without these lands as the remaining legacy, China simply wouldn't reborn as a superpower.

Just look what the modern Turkey left from the Ottoman Empire, and what the modern China inherited from the Qing Dynasty.

 

[tower9]

The Qing is too proud to reform and adopt certain aspects of foreign systems. Not to mention the vested interests involved to devolve power.

The Japanese are more pragmatic. They knew they couldn't defeat the Americans and they were behind Western powers, so they send their scholars to learn new ideas from them and coined new terms. These new terms and ideas were adopted by China later on.

Well, China and Japan come from vastly different historical positions. Japan was always a follower and was a rather marginal kingdom in Asia only until the mid-19th century. When the Western nations came and demonstrated their superiority, Japan saw the threat and seized the opportunity. It quickly reoriented itself away from copying China to copying the West.

China historically saw itself as a supreme civilization so for it to start following the West, it required a catastrophic and jarring jolt to its mental self image, which took the century of humiliation to really put in process.

Actually, the Qing did a good job of consolidating China's modern border. Without the transition from the Qing Dynasty, the modern PRC simply couldn't claim nearly 10 million square kilometers of lands, and without these lands as the remaining legacy, China simply wouldn't reborn as a superpower.

Just look what the modern Turkey left from the Ottoman Empire, and what the modern China inherited from the Qing Dynasty.

China is geographically small relative to its massive population. Look at all of the vast lands that Europeans conquered for themselves during this period. The American continent, Australia, Siberia were all underpopulated and are now inhabited by European peoples.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China is geographically small relative to its massive population. Look at all of the vast lands that Europeans conquered for themselves during this period. The American continent, Australia, Siberia were all underpopulated and are now inhabited by European peoples.

Yep, but it is still better than nothing.

If the transition from the Qing Dynasty to the PRC didn't occur in the history, then everything would simply become much worse. The Chinese civilization could possibly end up like the Native Americans.

 

[tower9]

Yep, but it is still better than nothing.

If the transition from the Qing Dynasty to the PRC didn't occur in the history, then everything would simply become much worse. The Chinese civilization could possibly end up like the Native Americans.

There is no possibility Chinese civilization could've ended up like the Native Americans. China is much too large, too populous, too entrenched. Absolutely nothing in common with sparsely populated Native tribes. You can argue there are slight parallels with the Aztecs but the Aztecs were far smaller and most died from diseases, which Chinese had immunity too.

Even Africa, which was mainly tribal and nowhere near China's level of civilization has largely managed to maintain their populational grip on the continent. Only North America, Australia and Siberia has seen the natives largely marginalized or overrun because their numbers were small to begin with and they had no entrenched urban civilizations.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

There is no possibility Chinese civilization could've ended up like the Native Americans. China is much too large, too populous, too entrenched. Absolutely nothing in common with sparsely populated Native tribes. You can argue there are slight parallels with the Aztecs but the Aztecs were far smaller and most died from diseases, which Chinese had immunity too.

Even Africa, which was mainly tribal and nowhere near China's level of civilization has largely managed to maintain their populational grip on the continent. Only North America, Australia and Siberia has seen the natives largely marginalized or overrun because their numbers were small to begin with and they had no entrenched urban civilizations.

The Qing Dynasty had expanded 13 million square km of territory for China, while the PRC has managed to secure the remaining 9.6 million square km.

This is the best possible outcome so far. And if you got a weak regime like the KMT, then China would be lucky to keep 1/2 of the modern territory, and there is no way a weak regime like the KMT could keep China intact.

 

[8888888888888]

Need to note down the CCP has to prosecute those who are very Confucians because they stand in the way of reforms when they first took power. I can image those kinds of people standing in the way of reforms in the Late Qing and even the republican era.

 

[vi-va]

It is China's greatest historical tragedy that the Qing Dynasty could not modernize like Japan's Meiji period. If the Qing had quickly modernized and industrialized after the first Opium war, China would've become a veritable superpower in the great game overtaking all of its European rivals by the late 19th century.

True, but absolutely impossible. The elites of Qing empire are doomed. CCP is Revolutionary Party, only CCP can save China and rejuvenation.

China reborn from ash.

 

[barjo]

Interesting sino history bro