China's DRDO is different...

[d00od00o]

NORINCO is a major Chinese defense firm, perhaps the DRDO of China. However, unlike DRDO, it has successfully developed and fielded a dizzying array of systems. Let me ask my fellow Indian members here, what exactly explains this disparity? Why has DRDO been so incompetent for so long, and what can be done to reform it?

 

[Papa Dragon]

NORINCO is a major Chinese defense firm, perhaps the DRDO of China. However, unlike DRDO, it has successfully developed and fielded a dizzying array of systems. Let me ask my fellow Indian members here, what exactly explains this disparity? Why has DRDO been so incompetent for so long, and what can be done to reform it?

Corruption, hiring based on reservation, officials in higher management favoring hiring and promotions based on caste and community, incompetence and lack of collaboration with research institutes.

 

[Max]

They are no match to China. China's real competitors are US, Japan, South Korea, Europe.

 

[Goenitz]

I think lack of good universities too. If you see scientific publication it's European and Chinese mainly.these researchers are vital for something state of the art.

 

[randomradio]

NORINCO is a major Chinese defense firm, perhaps the DRDO of China. However, unlike DRDO, it has successfully developed and fielded a dizzying array of systems. Let me ask my fellow Indian members here, what exactly explains this disparity? Why has DRDO been so incompetent for so long, and what can be done to reform it?

NORINCO's equivalent is OFB, not DRDO. I don't think China has a DRDO-equivalent, rather their research is divided into multiple research institutes instead.

Indian R&D facilities have been doing original research and not copy paste old stuff. And this has now started paying off. A lot of stuff that India used to import has now been substituted with indigenous equipment. So even we are now in the process of getting these dizzying array of equipment through Indian companies, all original designs.

 

[seesonic]

Indian R&D facilities have been doing original research and not copy paste old stuff.

You mean a̶r̶j̶u̶n̶k̶ arjun?

 

[d00od00o]

NORINCO's equivalent is OFB, not DRDO. I don't think China has a DRDO-equivalent, rather their research is divided into multiple research institutes instead.

Indian R&D facilities have been doing original research and not copy paste old stuff. And this has now started paying off. A lot of stuff that India used to import has now been substituted with indigenous equipment. So even we are now in the process of getting these dizzying array of equipment through Indian companies, all original designs.

Could you give us ten examples of this dizzying array of indigenous Indian equipment of original design?

Could you also provide a few examples of indigenous replacements of previously imported equipment?

 

[The Accountant]

NORINCO's equivalent is OFB, not DRDO. I don't think China has a DRDO-equivalent, rather their research is divided into multiple research institutes instead.

Indian R&D facilities have been doing original research and not copy paste old stuff. And this has now started paying off. A lot of stuff that India used to import has now been substituted with indigenous equipment. So even we are now in the process of getting these dizzying array of equipment through Indian companies, all original designs.

This is stupid of you that calling other's achievement as copy paste, so if your students were studying the theory of relativity and based your nuclear research on it then is it a copy paste? There is no harm in learning from the achievements of others as it gives you a head start ... If you think that someone could just copy paste without learning it inside out and without having knowledge of the subject then you are living in the fool's world ...

Everyone is doing the same ... Even US-based organization forms JVs, merger and acquisitions to acquire the knowledge they don't have ... Only stupid think that one should strat from scratch and should not take advantage of research already done by others ...

 

[Globaltracker81]

This is stupid of you that calling other's achievement as copy paste, so if your students were studying the theory of relativity and based your nuclear research on it then is it a copy paste? There is no harm in learning from the achievements of others as it gives you a head start ... If you think that someone could just copy paste without learning it inside out and without having knowledge of the subject then you are living in the fool's world ...

Everyone is doing the same ... Even US-based organization forms JVs, merger and acquisitions to acquire the knowledge they don't have ... Only stupid think that one should strat from scratch and should not take advantage of research already done by others ...

In a way I completely agree with you. People have to start looking at things practically each every thing. We Indian tend be more emotional in many things. If want stuff to be built or any thing in/by India then starting from scratch is too late to start off. Get it done should be our attitude (by hook or crook or research in short time)

 

[d00od00o]

Could you give us ten examples of this dizzying array of indigenous Indian equipment of original design?

Could you also provide a few examples of indigenous replacements of previously imported equipment?

Are you a RSS Bhakt who thinks Modi is rediscovering ancient Vedic technologies such as the vimana?


Planes discovered in Vedic age, it could fly between planets, says speaker at Indian Science Congress
Certain Indians have already claimed to have discovered plastic surgery, IVF and motor cars. Now, adding to that, a prominent professor in Mumbai has said that Hindu epics are all we need to understand the ancient world. He says we shouldn't rely on modern evidence or research.

Ever since PM Narendra Modi's accession there has been a surge in nationalist sentiments of a strange kind - as if a section of India has been on a trip to rewrite history.

And now, the Indian Science Congress organisers has decided to slip Vedic mythology about aviation into their programme schedule that will be held in 4 January in Mumbai. According to Mumbai Mirror, in a five-day symposium that will have Nobel laureates as speakers, there will be a segment examining the role of "ancient sciences through Sanskrit".

One of the speakers, Captain Anand J Bodas told Mumbai Mirror aeroplane was a vehicle discovered in the Vedic age which could not just move from one country to another, but also from one planet to another. "In those days aeroplanes were huge in size, and could move left, right, as well as backwards, unlike modern planes which only fly forward," he said.

Umm yeah, you read that right aeroplanes could fly backwards.

Citing an ancient Indian treatise on aviation, the Vaimanika Prakaranam as his source text and in an even more bizarre twist for the unbelieving- he said most of its principles have been forgotten because of the passage of time, foreign rulers and things being stolen from the country.


Image used for representative purpose only. ISCON/Flickr

History lessons in schools have also not been spared. Y Sudershan Rao was recently appointed as the head of the Indian Council of Historical Research by the Modi government fuelling concerns of a push to teach the superiority of Hindu values and mythology at the cost of academic rigour; critics also say this goes against the grain of secularism.

Rao is of the opinion that the art of fiction writing hadn't been invented until the last century and because the Mahabharata has been proved to be written at least two millennia ago- they must obviously be accurate and true, reported Reuters.

Two states run by the ruling BJP - Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat - have recruited controversial Hindu nationalist Dinanath Batra to advise on writing textbooks.

In June, thousands of schools in Gujarat were given textbooks by Batra that claimed cars were invented in ancient India and told children to draw an enlarged nation to include countries including Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Joining in on the bandwagon, the PM told an audience of doctors in Mumbai last month, that the Hindu god Ganesh's head was evidence of ancient plastic surgery. Adding that the Kauravas from the Mahabharata born outside his mother's womb were all test-tube baby.

And in case you're wondering, here's a handy list of everything that RSS says India discovered first before the world did.

Updated Date: Dec 26, 2014 15:35 PM

 

[randomradio]

Could you give us ten examples of this dizzying array of indigenous Indian equipment of original design?

Could you also provide a few examples of indigenous replacements of previously imported equipment?

Pinaka
QRSAM
DRDO ATAGS
Astra
ATGMs like Nag/Prospina, MPATGM
PGMs like SAAW
PGMs like HSLD, Garudaa/Garuthmaa
Phase 1 BMD
Varunastra torpedo
TAL Shyena torpedo
Netra AEW&CS
SSBN
LCH
LUH

Many more...

We have already indigenised radars and sonars, so we won't be importing much of that anymore.

This is stupid of you that calling other's achievement as copy paste, so if your students were studying the theory of relativity and based your nuclear research on it then is it a copy paste? There is no harm in learning from the achievements of others as it gives you a head start ... If you think that someone could just copy paste without learning it inside out and without having knowledge of the subject then you are living in the fool's world ...

Everyone is doing the same ... Even US-based organization forms JVs, merger and acquisitions to acquire the knowledge they don't have ... Only stupid think that one should strat from scratch and should not take advantage of research already done by others ...

Both countries are coming out with original designs only now. And it is stupid to take advantage of other people's research, then you will never have world class stuff. Only original designs will give you world class capabilities.

In a way I completely agree with you. People have to start looking at things practically each every thing. We Indian tend be more emotional in many things. If want stuff to be built or any thing in/by India then starting from scratch is too late to start off. Get it done should be our attitude (by hook or crook or research in short time)

That doesn't work. You will only end up reinventing the wheel. You will only have what others have developed. Original designs are the way to go. If you can't manage original designs, then JVs is an alternative. Reverse engineering is a failure, even the Chinese will tell you so.

 

[d00od00o]

Pinaka
QRSAM
DRDO ATAGS
Astra
ATGMs like Nag/Prospina, MPATGM
PGMs like SAAW
PGMs like HSLD, Garudaa/Garuthmaa
Phase 1 BMD
Varunastra torpedo
TAL Shyena torpedo
Netra AEW&CS
SSBN
LCH
LUH

Many more...

Most of your examples are old projects from many many years ago, almost all started under Kangress, and almost all of them have been cancelled or never been accepted into service due to poor performance and cost overruns.

Where are the dizzying array of promising indigenous systems?

 

[randomradio]

Most of your examples are old projects from many many years ago, almost all started under Kangress, and almost all of them have been cancelled or never been accepted into service due to poor performance and cost overruns.

Where are the dizzying array of promising indigenous systems?

Whatchu talking about? All that I have named are what anyone would call successful. Most of them are new, and are all world class systems. Most of what I have named are pretty much in the induction process right now.

The QRSAM in particular does not even have a decent competitor in the world right now. It completely surpasses even the SPYDER.

We no longer have to import artillery, radars, sonars, missiles, PGMs etc. Most of India's equipment is in the process of being indigenised completely.

 

[The Accountant]

Pinaka
QRSAM
DRDO ATAGS
Astra
ATGMs like Nag/Prospina, MPATGM
PGMs like SAAW
PGMs like HSLD, Garudaa/Garuthmaa
Phase 1 BMD
Varunastra torpedo
TAL Shyena torpedo
Netra AEW&CS
SSBN
LCH
LUH

Many more...

We have already indigenised radars and sonars, so we won't be importing much of that anymore.



Both countries are coming out with original designs only now. And it is stupid to take advantage of other people's research, then you will never have world class stuff. Only original designs will give you world class capabilities.



That doesn't work. You will only end up reinventing the wheel. You will only have what others have developed. Original designs are the way to go. If you can't manage original designs, then JVs is an alternative. Reverse engineering is a failure, even the Chinese will tell you so.

Reverse engineering is not a failure but is a quick way to reach upto the level the others already done ...

China is the biggest example, as they started with copying and then they are manufacturing J20 ... Offcourse reverse engineering can give you an inital push only but if you can't compliment it with further research you will always be one step behind others ...

 

[randomradio]

Reverse engineering is not a failure but is a quick way to reach upto the level the others already done ...

China is the biggest example, as they started with copying and then they are manufacturing J20 ... Offcourse reverse engineering can give you an inital push only but if you can't compliment it with further research you will always be one step behind others ...

Funnily enough, DRDO has caught up without resorting to reverse engineering, and that too with peanuts in terms of R&D budget.