China's Ancient Machines : Song Industrialization

[Aegis DDG]

 

[StarCraft_ZT]

Song had the highest standard of culture and technology, advanaced than Ming, but I don't like the late Southern Song Dynasty because of this guy Zhu Xi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aegis DDG]

Song had the highest standard of culture and technology, advanaced than Ming, but I don't like the late Southern Song Dynasty because of this guy Zhu Xi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's wrong with Zhu Xi?

 

[northeast]

The weakest major dynasty in whole chinese history.It's a shame.

 

[BoQ77]

Reason, Song lost China to foreigners who ruled Han people for over 1 century

 

[Aegis DDG]

Imagine of Song used these tech to fight out the Mongols! Maybe they would have suffered the Yuan and Qing Dynasties and the century of humiliation.

 

[Jlaw]

The weakest major dynasty in whole chinese history.It's a shame.

I read it took 40 years for Mongols to conquer Song.

 

[Borr]

What's wrong with Zhu Xi?

He indoctrinated moral codes.

 

[Edison Chen]

Imagine of Song used these tech to fight out the Mongols! Maybe they would have suffered the Yuan and Qing Dynasties and the century of humiliation.

Many techs were not applied into practice, because China had always been an agricultural civilization until 19th century, only a large scale industrialization could make them cheaper, and then can be really useful in practice.

 

[northeast]

I read it took 40 years for Mongols to conquer Song.

That proves nothing，Vietnam haven't got conquered in entire yuan dynasty.That doesn't mean vietnam is stronger than song and jin.Song is a turtle，got bullied by all its neighbours like liao，jin，xixia and mongols.
It looks like shameless coward malay country.

 

[ViXuyen]

I read it took 40 years for Mongols to conquer Song.

What do you expect? By the time the Mongols started their campaign against the Southern Song, their Empire had divided into 4 Khanates. Kubilai Khan Khanate only had about 60,000 Calvalry. China at that time had high city walls one after another. Mongols calvary had to dismount and scale ladders to atttack one Chinese city after another. It's a miracle that the Mongols could even conquer China with such a small force.

 

[ViXuyen]

That proves nothing，Vietnam haven't got conquered in entire yuan dynasty.That doesn't mean vietnam is stronger than song and jin.Song is a turtle，got bullied by all its neighbours like liao，jin，xixia and mongols.
It looks like shameless coward malay country.

The Mongols could not conquer Vietnam because the Mongols did not have a huge concentration of calvary in a single campaign. The Mongols only sent about 10,000 calvary and 100,000 foot soldiers to attack Vietnam. That kind of force won't do it because we were able to mobilize an army of 200,000 strong. Just to give you an idea of what 10,000 Mongol calvary could do; they devastated Poland and annexed Dali with just 10,000 men. China's force got stretched thin due to China's big land mass and could not concentrate a huge force like we did that's why the Mongols picked you guys apart. Had you been able to put together 300,000 men in one battle against 60,000 Mongols; the Mongols would have no chance against you guys. Force concentration was the decisive factor in most of the Mongols' victories.

 

[Snomannen]

Reason, Song lost China to foreigners who ruled Han people for over 1 century

Song already lost the title of "China" to Jin in Southern Song Dynasty, silly.
Besides Song was never a united Chinese dynasty.

 

[Jlaw]

That proves nothing，Vietnam haven't got conquered in entire yuan dynasty.That doesn't mean vietnam is stronger than song and jin.Song is a turtle，got bullied by all its neighbours like liao，jin，xixia and mongols.
It looks like shameless coward malay country.

I am not saying Song is strong, but not the quick swoop and Song was defeated like you see in tv series. Song emperor were cowards. Listening to sycophants and put to death of their only brave general , Yue Fei.

 

[Edison Chen]

I am saying Song is strong, but not the quick swoop and Song was defeated like you see in tv series. Song emperor were cowards. Listening to sycophants and put to death of their only brave general , Yue Fei.

A few points to share:

1, In early Northern Song Dynasty, the top level were really aggressive, they tried many times to grab the lost land back, but failed.

2, They made serious strategy mistakes. They made alliance with Jurchen to invade Liao, because Jurchen promised to give the North China back to Song, and sadly Song believed. Then Liao was defeated by Jurchen, however Jurchen didn't give the land to Song. After that, Song turned against Jin by making alliance with Mongol. The same result, Song was played twice! Really stupid.

3, the last emperor of Northen Song, Zhao Ji, was a very very great artist. He was a musician, poet, painter and calligrapher. He was really good at those things, but suck at politics. He also believed in Taoism. He has the most direct responsibility of losing Song.