China's $22 trillion time-bomb

[Jiang]

Lets me ask you one question since you jump the most when you say china economy is 6 trillion..what does it exactly mean ????
does china have 6 trillion $ in pocket or is the worthiness of all asset in china .....

now what happens to that number when those asset prices like say real estate since it makes a large chunk of your economy starts falling.....does your economy size shrink or its remain as it is ..?????????

Cost of cement, steel, and the construction wages are booked as industry GDP. Wages from real estate industry and its profit are booked as service GDP.

Revenue generated from land sell, or investment gain from reselling are not accounted into GDP.

So yeah, the GDP from real estate are it's input cost, actual price of commercial housing are a lot higher than it's input cost. Besides, cars and iPad are constantly being eroded and food are simply consumed, a dollar of GDP is still a dollar of GDP regardless of what happened to the product after.

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

I am beginning to think that the Chinese members here are obsessed with India..
Instead of defending their country by discussing how this method is not accurate they are just highlighting faults with the Indian economic system.
I am not saying our systems do not have faults, but tell me what good will highlighting India's falling growth rate do to help China's economy and the troubles it faces, raised by the article?

True.. I mean Pakistan doing this, I can understand, because they can derive comfort from the fact that a much larger economy and country has faults similar to theirs and hence they are not that bad off..

But China doing that sounds strange to me because today China is clearly way ahead of India in size and growth rate.. So this sounds kind of weird to me.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am beginning to think that the Chinese members here are obsessed with India..
Instead of defending their country by discussing how this method is not accurate they are just highlighting faults with the Indian economic system.
I am not saying our systems do not have faults, but tell me what good will highlighting India's falling growth rate do to help China's economy and the troubles it faces, raised by the article?

Obsessed?

Look who started a thread to bash China's economy.

An Indian started this thread, using an article written by another Indian.

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Obsessed?

Look who started a thread to bash China's economy.

An Indian started this thread, using an article written by another Indian.

Still, manofwar's argument is valid.. Why would you compare with a much slower and smaller India than point out flaws in the OP (even if the OP is an Indian)

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Still, manofwar's argument is valid.. Why would you compare with a much slower and smaller India than point out flaws in the OP (even if the OP is an Indian)

Because Indians have the most incredible ego, and look down on all their neighbours.

They believe they are better than China, constantly insulting us and starting threads to attack us.

India "the superpower" doesn't fare so well when it comes to reality though.

All I do is post the ACTUAL facts and figures, and the Indians can't handle it.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

OK, so now passengers are on HSR which frees up the old tracks for use as a freight corridor.

That makes sense.

But I think the same economic advantage could have been achieved at much lower cost if the passenger tracks were designed for 200 kmph instead of 300 kmph.

Also, for long distances (more than 1000 km) the effort should be to make air travel more affordable.

air travel should not be encouraged too much because it depends on oil prices; in China, airlines charge consumers for the oil they use separately, so prices fluctuate with global oil prices. HSR rail prices are constant because they use electricity, which is supplied completely domestically with our coal, gas, hydropower, wind and solar reserves.

the old trains already run at around 200 kph; the 300 kph trains "links" more critical cities than a 200 kph train would. if you can imagine a "2 hr travel radius" around each city, 200 kph would not create overlaps between every major city in China (for example, Wuhan and Changsha would not be covered) but 300 kph does. A HSR from Chengdu, in Western China, has 2 hr travel radius that includes Wuhan, in central China, whose 2 hr travel radius includes Hefei, whose 2 hr travel radius includes Shanghai.

Lets me ask you one question since you jump the most when you say china economy is 6 trillion..what does it exactly mean ????
does china have 6 trillion $ in pocket or is the worthiness of all asset in china .....

now what happens to that number when those asset prices like say real estate since it makes a large chunk of your economy starts falling.....does your economy size shrink or its remain as it is ..?????????

6 trillion in GDP means China made 6 trillion this year. It is a flux and not an accumulation.

The accumulation is much more. Beijing real estate alone is worth 15 trillion USD.

 

[Punjabbi Munda]

Because Indians have the most incredible ego, and look down on all their neighbours.

They believe they are better than China, constantly insulting us and starting threads to attack us.

India "the superpower" doesn't fare so well when it comes to reality though.

All I do is post the ACTUAL facts and figures, and the Indians can't handle it.

Your comprehension senses seems to have taken a dig.Such a boring poster to interact to and obviously monotonous!
Now how does India and superpower come into discussion?Too much obsession?Or you are butthurt that Chinese economy is slowing down fast indeed.

 

[WS-10 Engine]

Obsessed?

Look who started a thread to bash China's economy.

An Indian started this thread, using an article written by another Indian.

quoted for truth.

we dont need to defend a troll article started by 2 indian troll 'experts' and posted by indian trolls in PDF.

its clearly a china bashing article that deserves no serious response to.

if indians want to bash china, we will retaliate by bashing india.

tit for tat.

if indians want to take punches at china, we punch back.

 

[Jiang]

commercial real estate is a problem but HSR is definitely not. It was not designed to make money directly; it was designed to make money through stimulating the rest of the economy.

Let me just tell you what I know from experience: before HSR, it was more expensive to ship goods from Beijing to Hong Kong, than from Hong Kong to the US. This was because regular rail was used for passengers and thus the goods mostly were shipped by truck. Most of China's highways are toll roads and tolls can be insanely high, ranging up to thousands of RMB for heavy cargo and long trips. Before HSR, trains and buses were so overcrowded during New Years that accidents happened and people died; I think this year was the first year ever with no fatalities during New Years.

HSR increases labor mobility greatly, increases goods mobility greatly, gives us experience in manufacturing heavy machinery, high quality steel, electronics and systems design which can be applied to other items. It reduces potential carbon emissions as well.

I cannot stress how important high labor mobility is to a major economy. It not only means that people can live further from work which reduces urban crowding, but also stimulates tourism and reduces the burden of migrant workers.

Actually this analysis is not entirely correct. HSR is meant to provide an alternative to passenger plane, importing passenger jets and jetfuel are huge burden on the economy. Also the regular passenger trains are huge money losers, switching to HSR add capacity during Chinese new year but it also allow more regular train to transport goods which are profitable for the railroad ministry.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Still, manofwar's argument is valid.. Why would you compare with a much slower and smaller India than point out flaws in the OP (even if the OP is an Indian)

And anyway, I did point out the flaws in this Indian article on the very first page.

But the Indians were strangely silent about it.

List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the IMF:

China's debt-to-GDP ratio = 33%

Spain's debt-to-GDP ratio = 60%

India's debt-to-GDP ratio = 65%

 

[manofwar]

Obsessed?

Look who started a thread to bash China's economy.

An Indian started this thread, using an article written by another Indian.

You are still haven't given any information or sources as to why you think that this article is not correct, except ofcourse that the author is an Indian..
The person who started just wanted a meaningful discussion on Chinese economy. You are free to criticize the methods used by the the author to calculate Chinese debt . However it does not give you any reason to criticize Indian economy or Indians in general

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The person who started just wanted a meaningful discussion on Chinese economy.

What a liar.

The forum rules clearly state that no threads on the Chinese economy are allowed. And this article is beyond ridiculous, they add all sorts of numbers that they do not add for any other economy in the world, and expect to be taken seriously when the IMF numbers contradict them instantly.

However it does not give you any reason to criticize Indian economy or Indians in general

It absolutely does. To show the sheer hypocrisy.

 

[Punjabbi Munda]

Chinese:
China gonna be a superpower,doing great,no economic slowdown:

When some realities come out,slowdown,internal problems:

 

[manofwar]

And anyway, I did point out the flaws in this Indian article on the very first page.

But the Indians were strangely silent about it.

I ask you- is it in anyway related to the thread topic??
If you want to criticize Indian govt. or it's economic policies you are free to start another relevant thread...

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Because Indians have the most incredible ego, and look down on all their neighbours.

They believe they are better than China, constantly insulting us and starting threads to attack us.

India "the superpower" doesn't fare so well when it comes to reality though.

All I do is post the ACTUAL facts and figures, and the Indians can't handle it.

But this thread is not about India or Indians.. Why would you go off topic..??