China won't let India go past Pakistan in race for nuclear suppliers group membership

[Joe Shearer]

India should break the Monopoly of this elite club and start making new club to small countries to which it can provide technology, Similar to BRICS aka world bank /IMF.


Reality is , hurt the enemy most where it will. Didn't china provided nukes to PAK? India should do the same, one way or other. Nukes/ Missiles/ Reactors..... then see the world will give you RED carpet.

Do you know why suddenly world started to share their Aero engine tech to India? think n tell....

More likely to give us a kick in the arse.

It is the size of our consumer market that gives us our clout, nothing else. Increasing the size of this market, increasing the size of our economy, cleaning up the anomalies in our administration, strengthening our financial regulation and control without slowing down the pace of financial transactions - all these are a thousand times more important, not childish propositions like arming a country that does not need proliferation to attract attention from an already surly neighbour.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Its just the beginning of the end for these kind of cartels.
Consider the scenarios

1) India is not admitted to NSG
India will strike bargains with individual countries and weaken the NSG regime. Already India is importing Uranium and it will extend further.

2) India joins NSG
Pisses of china & pak they will start trading openly in nuclear tech which will put NSG into shade.

the question is who will gain most out it? quarreling cats or the intervening monkeys.

China cant. According to the rules of NSG one can sell only to NSG and IAEA excempted members. China it claims it has signed MoU upto 8 reactors in Pakistan before it joined NSG. It is using that excuse to build reactors. After 8 unless Pakistan joins NSG or get excemption, that will be the end of it.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

More likely to give us a kick in the arse.

It is the size of our consumer market that gives us our clout, nothing else. Increasing the size of this market, increasing the size of our economy, cleaning up the anomalies in our administration, strengthening our financial regulation and control without slowing down the pace of financial transactions - all these are a thousand times more important, not childish propositions like arming a country that does not need proliferation to attract attention from an already surly neighbour.

lol, India is not breaking any law by arming it. Didn't China did? or Any other country didnt?

India is govern by Weak leaders who only think" What other will Say" , Move out of this and DO as you think is right for country / interest.

China taken islands in South China Sea? what world has done? NOTHING,
Russia invaded and taken City? how world react , nothing.

how the World react if you Arm Viets? nothing, Everyone keep quite , only China will jump up and down.

 

[navtrek]

You don't need to convince me. It serves no purpose since I'm not connected to the nuclear industry, well not unless you're offering some "incentives".

This is the closest I've ever been to a nuclear reactor

OK, I've been closer having spent time on US nuclear boats, but you get the idea.

I know India's record and It shows to be a responsible actor. Though you should remind your compatriots against making such rash suggestions as proliferating nuclear tech just because China made you mad. That's stupid and goes against the NSG, ensuring your entry is moved back even further and perhaps inviting punitive measure against you.



No such thing as hypocrisy, only interests. What is good for China may be bad for India and good for Pakistan, it's political and the world isn't fair. My nation is rather culpable of human rights abuses, yet waves this in the face of others demanding their action... and you know what? I couldn't care less so long as it serves our geopolitical aims.

No one gives two f*cks about their actions being hypocritical so long as their aims are met.

Yes I agree with you on that.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

lol , Rectors , Magnates is developed by you? Or by bring it in ships from North Korea . Cant even develop Lathe machine which is required to manufacturing machine, caught by India in North Korea ships , all your missiles and its components

Read history, know your own country and then talk.......yea , read history not from madarsa

Watch this....Pakistanis can't develop lathe machine but we surely are developing these.......Amazing, isn't it?

https://defence.pk/threads/what-pakistanis-are-doing-at-cern.433674/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/566601/...-research-pakistanis-also-playing-their-part/

This is not Modi's territory....watch your tongue and writing. Avoid being personal....

 

[Tripoli]

Watch this....Pakistanis can't develop lathe machine but we surely are developing these.......Amazing, isn't it?

https://defence.pk/threads/what-pakistanis-are-doing-at-cern.433674/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/566601/...-research-pakistanis-also-playing-their-part/

This is not Modi's territory....watch your tongue and writing. Avoid being personal....

Don't try to argue with them. These are the same people who claim to have developed the super, duper
BRAH-MOS(COW).

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

how the World react if you Arm Viets? nothing, Everyone keep quite , only China will jump up and down.

Prequisite to arming Viets with Nukes, would be Vietnamese interest in becoming a nuclear power or atleast posses long range ballistic missile.

Vietnam so far has not shown an interest in neither.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

This is an international project of zero military application thus membership to it has been distributed like candy.

Lathe machine is a basic machine without which you could not manufacture most of product. It is a key machine in achieving self-sufficiency in production.

And btw take a look at what you are providing to this project: Maintenance services, and carbon frame for detector's outer barrel!!

If you have taken a look at small arms produced by POF, you wouldn't have said that. Pakistan is progressing in military applications i.e electronics etc.

@Arsalan ......wanna shed some light on this?

I m out.

 

[mehboobkz]

Those who want to know:

Undertaking simultaneous construction of 22 nuclear power plants (accounting for more than one third of all reactors being built globally), China has deep nuclear pockets. Nearly every major nuclear supplier has a hand in it. China is importing from, as well as co-developing nuclear reactors with France, Russia, and the US. It is building nuclear reactors in the UK and Argentina. The nuclear industry of each of these states is invested in China, currently the largest nuclear market. Given the downturn in the fortunes of the nuclear industry after Fukushima, the nuclear marketplace today belongs to the buyer, not the seller. And China is the biggest buyer on the block. Who then can afford to upset it?

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Hope after India being rejected due to China... Modi makes statements clear that -

China don't need to be insecured and afraid of India's raise as a great power once again. China should grow up " Mann that could be something

 

[Arsalan]

If you have taken a look at small arms produced by POF, you wouldn't have said that. Pakistan is progressing in military applications i.e electronics etc.

@Arsalan ......wanna shed some light on this?

I m out.

That wont be helpful, the intend is clear here

He will talk about one thing, you answer to that and rather then acknowledging that they simply jump to some other thing. Such people don't last very long on this forum. I hope things change for better or else there is no real good reason to indulge in a debate here.

 

[dadeechi]

@nang2

Yes, if India gets in first, it would make it difficult for Pakistan to enter NSG ,but not impossible. For Pakistani membership, India is bound to extract its pound of flesh from Pakistan ,probably demanding Pakistan to hand over UNSC sanctioned terrorists to India and/or demanding that Pakistan sign FMCT (along with India) as FMCT hits Pakistan harder than India due to difference in nuclear weapon policy and existence of BMD with India.


@dadeechi @nang2 and @SvenSvensonov ,

I forgot to add one more thing. If it comes down to Chinese veto alone, Chinese would not veto India membership. Think in cost/benefit analysis from point of view of China.

If China veto, what it gain: (1) An angry India looking to settle score (2) A beholden Pakistan. Now the thing is that, Pakistan is already beholden to China. It becoming more beholden to China does not bring Chinese much benefit. But and angry and vengeful India would derail multilateral initiatives of China and also block its membership of MTCR (which India would get in a couple of weeks as Italians have been pacified); and India has provided the taste of this to China when it hoster "Free Uigher and Tibet" conference in retaliation to China vetoing UN sanctions on terrorist Massod Azhar.

And what does India lose: Nothing except a seat on the table. India already have all exemptions that it need for nuclear trade.


Now If China does not veto (and this is interesting part), what it gains: (1) An India that is pacified atm, and thus less willing to join USA's coalition against China atm (2) A PAkistan which is completely dependent on China for nuclear commerce.

Suppose if India gets into NSG and it closes all avenues of a 123 type exemption for Pakistan; Pakistan would be completely dependent on China for its nuclear weapon program (all nuclear plants of Pakistan are Chinese). This way China gains even more stranglehold on Pakistan. A concrete win for China.

This is the reason I think that if it comes to China alone (and giving it an excuse for dropping Pakistan for sake of not breaking consensus), it would not cast its sole veto.

See below thread

https://defence.pk/threads/india-ho...echnology-control-regime.433860/#post-8361871

 

[mehboobkz]

• PM Narendra Modi in Washington, John Kerry in Beijing, China all around

 

[airmarshal]

India is a nuclear proliferator as it too bought nuclear technology through secret means. Its also a non signatory to NPT. So if such exceptions could be made for India, exceptions should be made for Pakistan too. If India's entry is so principled, then Pakistan too has principled case.

 

[dadeechi]

India is a nuclear proliferator as it too bought nuclear technology through secret means. Its also a non signatory to NPT. So if such exceptions could be made for India, exceptions should be made for Pakistan too. If India's entry is so principled, then Pakistan too has principled case.

You would be naïve to think that International relations are based on principles, ethics and equality.

India is paying for these memberships through investment of huge political capital via defense and business deals with these countries.

If Pakistan is ready to pay like India, it's case too would be picked up in a heart beat.