China Will Help Pakistan Turn Thar’s Coal Into Liquid:

[313ghazi]

This all depends on the cost of the diesel. Will it be cheaper than diesel bought on the open market? If not, it's going to be a failed project from the get-go.

I'd much rather we spend every penny on renewable electricity. We need to change our power to renewable as quickly as possible and electrify the transportation in the country.

I'd like to see an aggressive and ambitious project where within the next 10 years;
- all bikes and rickshaws in the country to be electric.
- all public transport in the country to be electric

Within 15 years;
- All cars and vans to be turned to electric
- All rail lines to be converted to electric
- Massive increase in rail freight and increase in rail network so freight can get sent to commercial and industrial sectors within cities.

In 20 years time I'd like the only combustion engines in Pakistan to be fitted in vehicles in rural areas, maybe trucks (i don't know of long distance truck batteries yet). I'd like to see all transport electric within 30 years time.

To achieve this we need to;
- aggressively increase our electricity production using renewable means
- produce tech used to generate renewable energy domestically (brand new industry)
- produce and install network of chargers across the country
- setup industry to develop and manufacture batteries for electric vehicles
- setup an electric vehicle industry (rickshaws and bikes first)

We need to target urban areas first and then branch out to rural areas. The first vehicles could perhaps by hybrids.

If we take this leap, well be free of dependency on oil, we'll have cleaner air, and we'll create tens of millions of jobs inside our own country.

 

[denel]

Wow I didnt know that was possible. Need to read up on this.

SASOL is the world's leader on this; we have been doing this now for over 50 plus years. All our fuel here is synthetic.

 

[khail007]

If practical ... indeed will be a good development for Pakistan.
In past (media info and supreme court), provided information points that the 'Thar Gasification' project under Dr Samar Mubarak was only a stunt and millions of tax payer money gone wasted.
Further, if coal could be turned into liquid then why no into gas as claimed previously. Could someone enlighten us on that?

 

[denel]

If practical ... indeed will be a good development for Pakistan.
In past (media info and supreme court), provided information points that the 'Thar Gasification' project under Dr Samar Mubarak was only a stunt and millions of tax payer money gone wasted.
Further, if coal could be turned into liquid then why no into gas as claimed previously. Could someone enlighten us on that?

Who is Dr Samar? Dont tell me a physics person! come on. This is beyond ridiculous.

You need chemical/petrochemical engineers not physics people for this work.

 

[denel]

https://www.sasol.com/innovation/gas-liquids/technology

Whether it is coal or gas, it can be converted. At mosselbay gas is converted to liquid; Sasolburg and secunda are where the largest operations are located. Qatar is the largest client for SASOL to convert their gas to liquids; there is a huge project underway in US for similar work.

 

[khail007]

Who is Dr Samar? Dont tell me a physics person! come on. This is beyond ridiculous.

You need chemical/petrochemical engineers not physics people for this work.

Sir G, you judged it rightly, Dr Samar was involved in Pakistan's nuclear program.

 

[denel]

Sir G, you judged it rightly, Dr Samar was involved in Pakistan's nuclear program.

No wonder why it went no where. Pardon my pun, you dont have chemical or petrochemical engineers who are out in KSA or elsewhere with the knowledge base. Our senior leaders had back in 50s seen that we were going to be faced with sanctions and blessed the SASOL with a firm mandate. That alone made us survive the oil blockade. Everything from propane, diesel, petrol, naptha etc is all synthetic in RSA for decades now.

"Speaking at Sasol’s annual results presentation on September 12, Victor pointed out that the company would maintain momentum despite macroeconomic factors and commented that the outlook for 2017 remained reasonably positive. “South African liquid fuels sales volumes [will reach] about 61-million barrels, with [Qatari joint venture (JV)] Oryx’s gas-to-liquid’s (GTL) usage rate averaging about 90%, [and] base chemicals’ and performance chemicals’ sales volumes and margins are expected to be higher than the previous year.”

As of now, there is approx 40% of imports which are then refined and blended with local synthetic fuel; if you come here at the filling station you will find a purely SASOL synthetic or a blend.

 

[RealNapster]

SASOL is the world's leader on this; we have been doing this now for over 50 plus years. All our fuel here is synthetic.

How much a barrel petrol and diesel cost SASOL ?

 

[denel]

How much a barrel petrol and diesel cost SASOL ?

I think it was around 35 for syncrude to be generated. You must understand, first it is syncrude that is produced then distilled downwards. I am not an expert in this area . Very basic understanding. Whether it is gas or coal; they go to same core material then distilled down.

 

[RealNapster]

I think it was around 35 for syncrude to be generated. You must understand, first it is syncrude that is produced then distilled downwards. I am not an expert in this area . Very basic understanding. Whether it is gas or coal; they go to same core material then distilled down.

35 is good. But usually the price of coal is separated from cost of production. Usually it is 35-40 dollars coverting cost plus 15-20 (depend on coal and its import etc) of coal per ton . Which means at the end it gets no better then 50 dollars... so in general CTL is competitive when Oil prices are 60 dollars a barrel. how much a ton coal cost them SASOL ?

 

[niaz]

I think it was around 35 for syncrude to be generated. You must understand, first it is syncrude that is produced then distilled downwards. I am not an expert in this area . Very basic understanding. Whether it is gas or coal; they go to same core material then distilled down.

You are very right sir.

The process is based upon the Fischer Tropshce Synthesis originally developed in 1926. Coal to petroleum has three distinct stages. First involves gasification of coal in a combination of oxygen & water to produce Syngas which is a mixture of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide & hydrogen.

3C (i.e., coal) + O2 + H2O → H2 + 3C

CO + H2O → H2 + CO2

The second stage is the Fischer-Tropsch Synthesis. This stage is a catalytic reaction, where Iron & cobalt-based catalysts are normally used to convert Syngas into liquid Syncrude.


(2n+1) H2 + n CO → Cn H(2n+2) + n H2O

3rd stage is the distillation of the liquid to separate gasoline, kerosene & gas oil (diesel) fractions.

The above is only the Basic Principle. Sasol has been a leader in this field for more than 40 years and has fine-tuned the process with the help of advanced catalysts.

As you can see the above is quite a cumbersome process and hence costly. As a guestimate, crude prices have to be near $80 per bbl. to make the process economically viable. Since crude prices are hovering around $60 per bbl for quite a while, understand Sasol is now focussing on producing petrochemicals from Syngas instead.

 

[VCheng]

And if the said company comes and installs the Coal-to-Liquid (CoT) plant in Thar and starts turning the coal into diesel, it will prove not less than a game changer as there are huge coal deposits in Thar,” Nadeem Babar

Does Babar Sahib understand the concept of cost-effectiveness? What good is diesel whose cost of production far exceeds the price at which it can sell?

Remember the time PDF was reverberating with the "game-changing" underground coal gasification project? Pakistan is already full of power generating projects who output is not affordable by the majority of the consumers. It seems PDF has forgotten about the circular debt as well.

Sab achcha hey. Of course.

 

[AZ1]

Does Babar Sahib understand the concept of cost-effectiveness? What good is diesel whose cost of production far exceeds the price at which it can sell?

Remember the time PDF was reverberating with the "game-changing" underground coal gasification project? Pakistanis is already full of power generating projects who output is not affordable by the majority of the consumers. It seems PDF has forgotten about the circular debt as well.

Sab achcha hey. Of course.

There must be some saving or benefit that's why we are going for this otherwise what the use

 

[VCheng]

There must be some saving or benefit that's why we are going for this otherwise what the use

Let's wait and see if the Chinese company agrees to take on this project, and under what terms:

He added that if Shenhua Ningxia Coal Industry Group agrees to install Coal-to-Liquid (CoT) plant in Thar, it will prove to be no less than a game changer.

 

[denel]

You are very right sir.

The process is based upon the Fischer Tropshce Synthesis originally developed in 1926. Coal to petroleum has three distinct stages. First involves gasification of coal in a combination of oxygen & water to produce Syngas which a mixture of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide & hydrogen.

3C (i.e., coal) + O2 + H2O → H2 + 3C

CO + H2O → H2 + CO2

The second stage is the Fischer-Tropsch Synthesis. This stage is a catalytic reaction, where Iron & cobalt-based catalysts are normally used to convert Syngas into liquid Syncrude.


(2n+1) H2 + n CO → Cn H(2n+2) + n H2O

3rd stage is the distillation of the liquid to separate gasoline, kerosene & gas oil (diesel) fractions.

The above is only the Basic Principal. Sasol has been a leader in this field for more than 40 years and have fine-tuned the process with the help of advanced catalysts.

As you can see the above is quite a cumbersome process and hence costly. As a guestimate, crude prices have to be near $80 per bbl. to make the process economically viable. Since crude prices are hovering around $60 per bbl for quite a while, understand Sasol is now focussing on producing petrochemicals from Syngas instead.

The most cost effective is to use gas if possible; converting coal is most expensive; but where we were when no would would supply us oil; this was the only way. it still remains a strategic industry for us.