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China vs India: Wars in Space of the 21st Century

naveenp

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India and China have been nervously eyeing one another as enemies for decades and the rivalry has now moved on to space.
India and China have been nervously eyeing one another as enemies for decades and the rivalry has now moved on to space.

The fact remains that neither of them have a rational reason to go to war with the other, but strategists and political leaders in New Delhi and Beijing are making plans, building military roads and airbases, and thinking hard about what would happen if fighting were to break out somewhere along their disputed border.

China has the world's second largest economy and India is ranked fourth. While India's economy fast expanding economy may take a while to reach the size of China's it's population may overtake China's within a decade or two. In spite of the understandable refusal by both governments to make it official, the rivalry between them is already shaping the geopolitics of the 21st century.

The geographic context of their confrontation is unique. In October 1962, China and India fought a month-long war in the Himalayas over the disputed border there. The war ended with a Chinese military victory because the Indian Navy and the Indian Air Force were kept out of the war. Since then, that border has been quiet, but China's support for Pakistan, as well as it's global ambitions, make both countries increasingly uncomfortable neighbors for India. India too has global ambitions like that of China to be a super power. The Indian Navy is already the sole dominant force in the Indian Ocean Region and the Air Force too is fast transforming itself into an aerospace power.

Never before have two modern military powers - China and India - confronted one another across a mountain range like the Himalayas. The wars fought by Europeans across the Alps and Pyrenees would appear as minor skirmishes compared to it. Control of the high ground has always been helpful in wars, but now - when controlling the high ground means better radar coverage, better intelligence gathering capability and better communications is of supreme importance.

A conventional war fought between these two rivals at very high altitude would superficially resemble the fighting between India and Pakistan during the 1999 Kargil conflict, when Pakistani infiltrators took control of some mountaintops on terrain under Indian control. Although they were eventually expelled by Indian forces in a month-long campaign fought in some of the most difficult conditions in the history of war, it is likely that a new confrontation here would quickly escalate into something far more intense. The extreme difficulty of resupplying ground forces fighting among the highest mountains in the would rapidly make air superiority even more decisive than usual.

Namely, for air power and for modern precision weaponry to be fully effective, it must be supported by spacepower. Satellite navigation systems, such as America's GPSs, are essential, as are satellite communications, space-based reconnaissance and early warning systems.

In the mountains, space systems are even more important than in level terrain because of the extreme difficulties of operating multiple fixed and mobile transmitters at high altitude. The limits of normal tactical radios at high altitude have become obvious to American forces operating in Afghanistan; in the Himalayas, the problems would be even worse due to the fact that the peaks are higher and the valleys deeper, making a ground unit, or even an aircraft, to move into a communication dead zone. In Afghanistan the US has, to some extent gotten around this problem by using relay stations based on the ground, on aircraft and on drones, but even these relatively simple solutions have shown their limits. Relay stations cannot be everywhere; they are not responsive to quick changes in plans, and their placement can sometimes show the enemy where the US plans to send it's troops.

Although space systems may be essential to overcome these problems, they also have limits. Signals from ground based radio frequency communications systems or from navigation satellites can be blocked by mountains. Despite this problem, satellites are far more reliable as a means of communications than any available alternative, such as ground or air-based relay transmitters.

Another mode of warfare, dog-fighting in high mountains, is a highly specialized art that is little understood outside a few places where it is essential to national survival. The Swiss Air Force has spent more than 70 years perfecting it's ability to fight in the Alps. The main lesson it has learnt is that training and maneuverability count for more than electronics or advanced weapons. A pilot who has flown into the same valley, or around the same mountain crest, hundreds of times will probably beat a pilot flying in the same environment for the first time, even if that pilot has been able to practice in a simulator.

In the Himalayas, India would have the advantage when flying on it's side of the border, and China would have the advantage on it's side. Although both nations would naturally seek to train their pilots to fly on the other side of the line, it is hard to see how either side could develop a sustained advantage with an air force that used conventional information systems. If one side could gain an advantage using space-based assets, however, it would gain air superiority and thus win the air campaign, if not the war.

If one side, for example, could gather data from space systems to give its pilots a precise awareness of where the enemy aircraft were, while denying such information to the adversary, it could win air superiority.

The US has long been able to use satellites to put information into the cockpits of it's military aircraft, a capability that is proliferating both to America's allies and to it's prospective foes.

China and India are building and enhancing their military and quasi-military space assets. India recently launched another Earth observation satellite, adding to it's existing constellation of surveillance spacecraft. India has also been working on a set of so-called GPS augmentation satellites, which would give India the capacity to adapt and tailor the GPS signal to it's own specialized requirements. In spite of the failure of India's heavy launch rocket to put it's latest communications satellite into orbit, it maintains a comprehensive array of these satellites.

China has been pushing ahead with a comprehensive program aimed at building up its array of space assets. The Chinese are building their own global satellite navigation system called Beidou [Compass], which will be totally separate from America's GPS system. Members of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) have also been working hard to build improved communications and intelligence gathering satellites. The January 2007 test of an anti-satellite weapon signified that they take the possibility of space warfare deadly seriously.

The Indians have not yet conducted a recognizable test of an anti-satellite weapon, but there are reports that indicate they may soon do so. The Indian military is hard at work developing indigenous missile defense technology, which they know can be adapted for use against satellites.

If a conflict did erupt, both sides might believe that it would be to their advantage if they destroyed the other side's space systems. Even if the advantage of being the first to attack, using anti-satellite weapons, were short lived, it might last long enough to have a decisive military effect, especially if both sides came under diplomatic pressure to agree to a cease fire in place.

If the fighting spread to the high seas, or to the Pakistani frontier, or to both, the side with the best array of surviving space assets would have a considerable advantage. If they were fighting in the Indian Ocean, China would be more dependent on it's space assets than India, which, thanks to geography, would find it easier to use UAV's and reconnaissance aircraft.

The fact, however, that rivalries now extends into the Earth's orbit, simply shows just how important space power has become to any 21st century conflict.
 
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War in space, huh? Nobody has ever found another earth to live on in the universe yet, at least within travel distance to be safe. War is always fought on ground zero on *THIS* rock.

Here is a clue for Pakistan, invest heavily in space technology so that one day you can induct a meteor from the asteroid belt in the solar system and direct it to hit Bombay and be done with them once and for all.
WHAM, bulls eye. That's going to be a beautiful day.
 
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War in space, huh? Nobody has ever found another earth to live on in the universe yet, at least within travel distance to be safe. War is always fought on ground zero on *THIS* rock.

Here is a clue for Pakistan, invest heavily in space technology so that one day you can induct a meteor from the asteroid belt in the solar system and direct it to hit Bombay and be done with them once and for all.
WHAM, bulls eye. That's going to be a beautiful day.

Pakistan still a kid in space technology. im talking about present n u r talking about 3011.
 
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Pakistan still a kid in space technology. im talking about present n u r talking about 3011.

All scores can be evened in one or two generations. Nothing takes that long. It's the will to dominate over India that counts. Nothing else.
Do you have it?

Take the current p5+1 for example, Germany is semi-in it and noone is voicing objections about it, you know why? Because of Hitler, his third reich, Germans may have lost the war, but for that tiny european country, considers these were her adversaries: Russian, China, United States, France, Britain, losing isn't a big deal, is it? Nobody takes Germans and Mogolians lightly, because in history there were figures Adolf Hitler and Ganghiskan. And Germany survived.

China's UNSC seat is concnered, Pakistan did a great job of consistently promoting China to that seat. But without Korean war, without the Chinese fucked up 11 nations allied troops, you think the Chinese can claim that seat? Without Chinese in it (UNSC), if Iran would say something at that by their current sentiment, the UNSC has become a "joke" and has no credible authorities any more (if China were not part of it).

Today's Chinese territory were not chartered by the tradtioinal Chinese proper chinese, even though vast majority of government positions are held by those individuals. It was Mogolian and Manchurian's ambition which were lated inherited by the "Chinese."
 
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All scores can be evened in one or two generations. Nothing takes that long. It's the will to dominate over India that counts. Nothing else.
Do you have it?

Take the current p5+1 for example, Germany is semi-in it and noone is voicing objections about it, you know why? Because of Hitler, his third reich, Germans may have lost the war, but for that tiny european country, considers these were her adversaries: Russian, China, United States, France, Britain, losing isn't a big deal, is it? Nobody takes Germans and Mogolians lightly, because in history there were figures Adolf Hitler and Ganghiskan. And Germany survived.

China's UNSC seat is concnered, Pakistan did a great job of consistently promoting China to that seat. But without Korean war, without the Chinese fucked up 11 nations allied troops, you think the Chinese can claim that seat? Without Chinese in it (UNSC), if Iran would say something at that by their current sentiment, the UNSC has become a "joke" and has no credible authorities any more (if China were not part of it).

Today's Chinese territory were not chartered by the tradtioinal Chinese proper chinese, even though vast majority of government positions are held by those individuals. It was Mogolian and Manchurian's ambition which were lated inherited by the "Chinese."

china is emerging but dont call UNSC is joke without china. is china part of NATO. where are u from bro. china is a big nation with 130 cr population and second largest economy in the world. so to stabilize peace in world china must be part of UNSC. and also im not saying that india is not ahead of china but we r trying to achieve best that we can do.

y u always trying to make anti sentences about india. dont u have work, cant u think other than destruction. make sensible post instead of talking about meteoroids. are you alien or wat.

pakistan now itself started to build satellites, so pls stop trolling.
 
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There are basically zero countermeasures for effective anti satellite weapons. The only thing you can hope for is the opponent's incompetence; there's no effective shielding or avoidance device possible. India probably will take another 5-10 years to catch up in this regard.

I agree though - through effort, outside backwardness can be cured in 1-2 generations. Structural and cultural backwardness can never be cured.

If China maintained the same growth seen in the 1950's (10% a year before 1959), maybe because Mao died in 1955 and Liu Shaoqi became president, China would be like Brazil at the worst; a high class developing country, instead of a mid class developing country. If Liu implemented his policies (basically Deng's but without dismantling of public services) we might even be at the level of South Korea today. In fact, even if Mao didn't die then, until 1970 our per capita GDP and Taiwan's was about the same. The difference, of course, was that Taiwan had "intellectual storage" from the 60's and 70's and reaped the benefits in the 80's where their GDP per capita increased 6 times but China's barely changed due to devaluation.

Our main problem was with 2 mistakes. Mao's impatience with "big results" resulted in 3 years of -10-20% economic contraction, and then 10 years of uneven growth. Then Deng's suicidal drive for privatization and devaluation further increased the gap between us and other Asian countries.

India, unfortunately, seems to be heading down the same way as Deng's suicidal devaluation and privatization regime. We will wait and see what the domestic situation in India is for the next 10 years. If India is internally unstable, it can never challenge anyone. But if it is stable, India could be a great power.
 
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^^^ very rightly said. Internal stability is utmost important for any nation to live and project influence in their region. I think India is doing good in regularization and this will be the best period of growth. There were only two countries which did not get affected in the recent melt down and that is China & India. Both these counties are investing heavily in outer space while USA and Russia are cutting down on costs in this field.

Lets see where we both will be in 10 yrs.
 
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Our time to make a lunar mission and launch vehicle should decrease and we should make laser asat weapon asap.
 
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^^^ India is not investing heavily in space. I dont think India is in race with china in space.
 
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i think china has already won in space tech against india

we should stop comparing it

its like comparing the pak and india team for WC semi final and the result is out
 
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If China maintained the same growth seen in the 1950's (10% a year before 1959), maybe because Mao died in 1955 and Liu Shaoqi became president, China would be like Brazil at the worst; a high class developing country, instead of a mid class developing country.

Why most people think that Mao was a great revolutionary leader and a pretty sht leader during development. I don't think you're the only one to speculate about what would have happened if Mao knocked off 20 years earlier.

But then nothings ever come out of what-ifs.
 
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There are basically zero countermeasures for effective anti satellite weapons. The only thing you can hope for is the opponent's incompetence; there's no effective shielding or avoidance device possible. India probably will take another 5-10 years to catch up in this regard.

I agree though - through effort, outside backwardness can be cured in 1-2 generations. Structural and cultural backwardness can never be cured.

If China maintained the same growth seen in the 1950's (10% a year before 1959), maybe because Mao died in 1955 and Liu Shaoqi became president, China would be like Brazil at the worst; a high class developing country, instead of a mid class developing country. If Liu implemented his policies (basically Deng's but without dismantling of public services) we might even be at the level of South Korea today. In fact, even if Mao didn't die then, until 1970 our per capita GDP and Taiwan's was about the same. The difference, of course, was that Taiwan had "intellectual storage" from the 60's and 70's and reaped the benefits in the 80's where their GDP per capita increased 6 times but China's barely changed due to devaluation.

Our main problem was with 2 mistakes. Mao's impatience with "big results" resulted in 3 years of -10-20% economic contraction, and then 10 years of uneven growth. Then Deng's suicidal drive for privatization and devaluation further increased the gap between us and other Asian countries.

India, unfortunately, seems to be heading down the same way as Deng's suicidal devaluation and privatization regime. We will wait and see what the domestic situation in India is for the next 10 years. If India is internally unstable, it can never challenge anyone. But if it is stable, India could be a great power.


might our leaders are corrupted but not indians. im just wishing my country development.
 
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Why most people think that Mao was a great revolutionary leader and a pretty sht leader during development. I don't think you're the only one to speculate about what would have happened if Mao knocked off 20 years earlier.

But then nothings ever come out of what-ifs.

What China is heading for the past 30 years is what Liu would do in the 50's. Mao is a true socialist and his contribution to modern day China lies in the fact that the communism revolution has liberated modern day Chinese out of the crappy debris accumulated for thousand years in Chinese history. Has Liu was in power earlier, that generation of Chinese could have hoped to at least get a living standard comparable to Russians and East Germans.
 
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