China signs deal with NWFP to track down rebels

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

China signs deal with NWFP to track down rebels
8 Apr 2009, 2012 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN
China signs deal with NWFP to track down rebels - China - World - The Times of India

BEIJING: Terrorists-hit Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region has signed a deal for developing friendly relations across the border with the politically volatile North Western Frontier Province of Pakistan. The deal is expected to help China obtain the support from local leaders in NWFP, most of whom are independent of the Zardari regime in Islamabad, to cut off the links between separatists in Xinjiang and terrorists across the border in Pakistan.

Beijing also wants help to track down Xinjiang rebels hiding in Pakistan. sources said. It comes soon after the athiest Communist Party of China signed an agreement with the Jamat-e-Islami in Pakistan. Both agreements suggest that China has lost hope in the Zardari government's ability to help it in the area of tacking terrorists. Beijing is now dealing with Pakistan at the level of its domestic politics.

The agreement comes in the wake of intense crack down on Islamic rebels in Xinjiang, who are known for getting arms and training support from terrorists’ bases in Pakistan. The Chinese ministry of public security had earlier released details of several Xinjiang terrorists while suggesting that most of them had been trained in Pakistan. The Muslim dominated Xinjiang region is a hotbed of a separatist movement for creation of an independent East Turkmenistan nation of Uighur.

This comes within a week of the Tibetan provincial government signing an agreement on developing trade and friendly exchanges with the government of Nepal. Kathmandu is playing a key role in helping Chinese leaders to track down Tibetan rebels, who escape from China and seek shelter in the Himalayan kingdom.

Though these agreements talk of developing trade and cultural exchanges across the border, they are obviously meant for sensitive political purposes. Beijing is obviously pushing provincial governments along international borders to play a more active role in dealing with neighbouring countries in the political sphere.

The central governments of China and Pakistan are apparently behind which what is being described as a move to develop “friendly provincial level relationship”. The deal was signed in Urumqi, the Xinjiang provincial capital by Pakistan’s ambassador Masood Khan and Xinjiang’s governor Nur Baikeli on Tuesday.

China is engaged in broadening the Karakoram highway, which passes through the Khunjerab Pass at an altitude of 4,693 meters connecting Xinjing with NWFP. Islamabad has been trying to persuade China to use this highway as a major international route to bring imported goods from the Gudwar port further up in Pakistan. This is what makes the agreement between Xinjiang and NWFP particularly significant. The deal is also the result of a realisation that the Zardari regime cannot help China control terror.

Speaking on the occasion, Baikeli said the agreement provides an opportunity to enhance economic cooperation and establish joint ventures in the business sphere. He also invited the governor and chief minister of trouble torn NWFP to visit Xinjiang.

"This agreement provides a platform to intensify cooperation in economic, scientific and technological fields between Xinjiang and NWFP", the Pakistani media quoted Masood Khan as saying. He invited Baikeli to visit Pakistan this year.

The deal will help develop close cooperation between NWFP and Xinjiang in the areas of trade, science and technology, culture, education, agriculture, sports, health and tourism, the Chinese media said quoting official sources.
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Interesting development - it seems that China has simply bypassed the Zardari government and going directly to the NWFP administration.

 

[wtf]

I am confused.

In India foreign policy is the exclusive domain of the central government. States do not sign deals with sovereign governments , especially not defense deals. How did Pakistan constitution allow NWFP to do this ? Are they not a province of Pakistan ?

 

[RescueRanger]

China signs deal with NWFP to track down rebels
8 Apr 2009, 2012 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN
China signs deal with NWFP to track down rebels - China - World - The Times of India

BEIJING: Terrorists-hit Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region has signed a deal for developing friendly relations across the border with the politically volatile North Western Frontier Province of Pakistan. The deal is expected to help China obtain the support from local leaders in NWFP, most of whom are independent of the Zardari regime in Islamabad, to cut off the links between separatists in Xinjiang and terrorists across the border in Pakistan.

Beijing also wants help to track down Xinjiang rebels hiding in Pakistan. sources said. It comes soon after the athiest Communist Party of China signed an agreement with the Jamat-e-Islami in Pakistan. Both agreements suggest that China has lost hope in the Zardari government's ability to help it in the area of tacking terrorists. Beijing is now dealing with Pakistan at the level of its domestic politics.

The agreement comes in the wake of intense crack down on Islamic rebels in Xinjiang, who are known for getting arms and training support from terrorists’ bases in Pakistan. The Chinese ministry of public security had earlier released details of several Xinjiang terrorists while suggesting that most of them had been trained in Pakistan. The Muslim dominated Xinjiang region is a hotbed of a separatist movement for creation of an independent East Turkmenistan nation of Uighur.

This comes within a week of the Tibetan provincial government signing an agreement on developing trade and friendly exchanges with the government of Nepal. Kathmandu is playing a key role in helping Chinese leaders to track down Tibetan rebels, who escape from China and seek shelter in the Himalayan kingdom.

Though these agreements talk of developing trade and cultural exchanges across the border, they are obviously meant for sensitive political purposes. Beijing is obviously pushing provincial governments along international borders to play a more active role in dealing with neighbouring countries in the political sphere.

The central governments of China and Pakistan are apparently behind which what is being described as a move to develop “friendly provincial level relationship”. The deal was signed in Urumqi, the Xinjiang provincial capital by Pakistan’s ambassador Masood Khan and Xinjiang’s governor Nur Baikeli on Tuesday.

China is engaged in broadening the Karakoram highway, which passes through the Khunjerab Pass at an altitude of 4,693 meters connecting Xinjing with NWFP. Islamabad has been trying to persuade China to use this highway as a major international route to bring imported goods from the Gudwar port further up in Pakistan. This is what makes the agreement between Xinjiang and NWFP particularly significant. The deal is also the result of a realisation that the Zardari regime cannot help China control terror.

Speaking on the occasion, Baikeli said the agreement provides an opportunity to enhance economic cooperation and establish joint ventures in the business sphere. He also invited the governor and chief minister of trouble torn NWFP to visit Xinjiang.

"This agreement provides a platform to intensify cooperation in economic, scientific and technological fields between Xinjiang and NWFP", the Pakistani media quoted Masood Khan as saying. He invited Baikeli to visit Pakistan this year.

The deal will help develop close cooperation between NWFP and Xinjiang in the areas of trade, science and technology, culture, education, agriculture, sports, health and tourism, the Chinese media said quoting official sources.
_________________________________________________________________

Interesting development - it seems that China has simply bypassed the Zardari government and going directly to the NWFP administration.

I dont know the credibility of this report but i have written before on Defence PK about a new front being opened up on our Norther Front with the muslims of Xinjiang.

 

[DarkStar]

The muslims in Xinjiang do not pose a real threat to the Chinese state, at this moment. But Chinese are celever enough to know that in the future, the case could be different, which is why there is a lot of soft-repression of islamic activity in places like Urumchi, kashgar, etc.

My father visited Xinjiang twice last year, and it is true that there are a lot of muslim chinese in the NOrthern Areas of Pakistani (not to be confused with NWFP and FATA), but most of them are on business ventures buying minerals such as quartz for chinese businesses.

The chinese military/p[olice presence in xinjiang is very strong, and hardly anything escapes their attention.

It must be noted that the residents of the Northern Areas and Xinjiang province do not need visas to visit each other, although an ID attested by the local police (if i remember correctly) must be provided.

I do not believe xinjiang 'militants', such few as they may be, are a threat to China or Pakistan.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Darkstar, I know that you want to maintain good relations with China, but "soft repression"? Really? Is it necessary to sugar-coat everything to this extent?

Anyways, that's not the topic of this thread. But one must appreciate Beijing for their foresight, if not their faith in humanity.

 

[DarkStar]

Darkstar, I know that you want to maintain good relations with China, but "soft repression"? Really? Is it necessary to sugar-coat everything to this extent?

Anyways, that's not the topic of this thread. But one must appreciate Beijing for their foresight, if not their faith in humanity.

I'll explain to you then. I'll ask my dad if he still has pictures of Kashgar, and might post them on the forum.

They have built huge buildings around important shrines (like the grave of the famous companion sad bin abi waqqas), Idgah mosque, made the entrances small, close the mosques after prayer times.

They have official Imams and Quran teachers - who are paid by the government - that toe the official line.

Kind of sounds like most ARab countries that I know of.

They allow the people to follow their religion, although high officials must profess atheism.

This is what I mean by soft-repression.

Nothing at all like Bharat, where missionaries are killed in their cars, Muslims torched inside their properties, women and girls raped because their husbands and fathers are circumcised.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

In every country, there's a tradeoff between "security" and freedom of speech. The perils of too much freedom of speech, is that people tend to lose their tempers and eventually have a go at each other. On the other hand, the perils of too little freedom of speech are well known. I don't think I need to go there.

In India, a man can speak freely, practice whatever religion and pledge allegiance to whichever party. Of course this leads to political instability, social instability and often, violence. One can throw a shoe at the Home Minister and get rewarded. In a less free society, one would never see the light of day again.

In Kashmir, the Mullah at the Jama Masjid in Srinagar is free to instigate his followers with hate speech every friday. He is free to incite them into attacking the police and throwing stones, burning tyres and generally causing chaos, every friday. In China, its much more nuanced. The preacher would be replaced with a man from the CCP. No instigation, no violence. But then, the idea never got expressed - however hateful or beautiful that idea was.
Gilani et al are free to appear on National Television and accuse India of suppressing Islam, and instigate more people, cause more violence, breed more terrorists.
In China, where Islam is actually suppressed, there is no Gilani, no instigation, and no violence.

However, it is said that every society needs a safety valve. It needs a forum to express grievances. In a closed society, these grievances are carried around - whispered in corridors and written in diaries - till the day comes when it is no longer tolerable and all hell breaks loose.

Xinjiang may appear peaceful on the outside, but the silence is deceptive. Its demography has changed significantly with the native population being whittled down to less than 45%. In Kashmir, the massive protests and violence about demographic change were driven by fear and rumours - and it never actually happened.
Men who work for the Chinese government cannot wear beards, and women cannot wear headscarves. Children under the age of 18 are not allowed to attend a mosque - lest their minds be poisoned by the opium of the masses.
The Koran is state-mandated, and so is its interpretation.

Its a great contrast. And a great way to think - what is more valuable - freedom or security?

 

[RescueRanger]

In Kashmir, the Mullah at the Jama Masjid in Srinagar is free to instigate his followers with hate speech every friday. He is free to incite them into attacking the police and throwing stones, burning tyres and generally causing chaos, every friday.

RR,

I hate getting into Kashmir issue talks because our Indian friends view it as some sort of attack on India, before i start i assure you it is not. I just wish to set the record straight.

Sometimes people are forced to hate my friend:

Kashmiri Muslim Killings:

Total Killings * 89,742
Custodial Killings 6,771
Civilians Arrested 110,100
Structures Arsoned / Destroyed 104,866
Women Widowed 22,240
Children Orphaned 106,353
Women gang-raped / Molested 9,579

Human Rights Violations in kashmir

Behind the Kashmir Conflict - Abuses in the Kashmir Valley (Human Rights Watch Report, July 1999)


You stated above that the Mullah incites hatred... Hatred? Why all he and the people of the valley are asking for is Independence, and before you jump the gun and say (so Independence means join Pakistan). No, not in my book.

Independence means a separate Kashmiri state for the people of Kashmir, if that is what they want. So please do not play the righteous card game, stop twisting facts and de-railing the topic which is discussing Xinjiang and Pakistan.

Thank you.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Yes my friend. It would have been so peaceful, if there was no Pakistan to drive the militancy. instead, we had a peace accord with our neighbour to arrest and deport all the militants.

It would have been so much better if the GOI had the foresight to track the movements of all Kashmiris. To keep tabs on who says what. To arrest and vanish potential troublemakers before they snowballed into popular leaders who rallied thousands of people.

It would have been so peaceful if all Kashmiri children were not allowed to hear certain things. Not allowed to read certin things. Not allowed to attend the mosque so that they wouldn't develop any attachments towards their religion.

But sadly, in Kashmir, everything is allowed. And so the anger spills onto the streets. Atleast we know what is in their hearts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

My opinion is that anything related to Pakistan from the Times Of India needs to be accompanied with some sort of neutral source on the same issue.

Its not just about misreporting facts, its the entire spin that ToI writers give to any story on Pakistan - Chidu Raj being the pack leader...

 

[wtf]

I'll explain to you then. I'll ask my dad if he still has pictures of Kashgar, and might post them on the forum.

They have built huge buildings around important shrines (like the grave of the famous companion sad bin abi waqqas), Idgah mosque, made the entrances small, close the mosques after prayer times.

They have official Imams and Quran teachers - who are paid by the government - that toe the official line.

Kind of sounds like most ARab countries that I know of.

They allow the people to follow their religion, although high officials must profess atheism.

This is what I mean by soft-repression.

Nothing at all like Bharat, where missionaries are killed in their cars, Muslims torched inside their properties, women and girls raped because their husbands and fathers are circumcised.

The last part about Bharat was like kicking the bar stool on the way out right ? I have not visited the Muslim regions of China, but from what I can see the chinese treat all religions the same way. As long as they don't become too powerful and the govt. can listen to them it is all right.

Even if I was not an Indian, I would say that India is much better. You can actually do whatever the hell you want. The burning of cars etc. are not things that govt. approves, but things that happen due to the lack of rule of law in isolated areas (all have been in tribal areas). At least in Bangalore and Kerala I have seen open signs inviting people to convert to Islam. The problem between religions in India is a problem between people, not of the state ( except for the corruption, inefficiency and bias part).

China on the other hand is efficient and dead-set on stamping out powerful religions. Wait till Islam gets more power and takes the place of Falun Gong.

(The whole post is cobbled together from talks from Chinese people in US. I have not been to any Chinese city outside of Beijing).

 

[RescueRanger]

It would have been so peaceful if all Kashmiri children were not allowed to hear certain things. Not allowed to read certin things. Not allowed to attend the mosque so that they wouldn't develop any attachments towards their religion.

But sadly, in Kashmir, everything is allowed. And so the anger spills onto the streets. Atleast we know what is in their hearts.

No actually you are quite wrong there, sadly you are not willing to recognise the blatant human rights violations that have taken place in that region and are covering a very weak argument with a cloud of spin.

And why are you dragging Pakistan into the mix, look in all honesty ask the people what they want, i have said before i am not interested in Kahsmir for Pakistan, just for them to get their god goven right. The right to "Choose"...