China should DEMAND return of all stolen treasures

[Solomon2]

you asking thieves to return stolen goods voluntarily? fat chance

The U.S. not only is pretty good about this, but after WWII refused to take captured works of art back to America. Not for lack of trying; the curators drafted by the Army to catalog the captured stuff actually mutinied when they were ordered to prepare such works for a U.S. tour, as in their opinion once in the U.S. the stuff would never be returned. The Army backed down and the art stayed in Europe, released to European governments once they were up and running.

The true "bad boy" has been the Russians. First, Stalin decreed every Soviet soldier was entitled to ten pounds of war booty. Second, the very best pieces of captured art disappeared entirely, the Russians refusing (unlike the British and French) to display or give an account of them. I recall one particularly egregious episode when an American curator traveled to Russia to hear his counterpart deny that the Soviets possessed such works, even as one of the pieces on the list was hanging on the wall behind him. Some of these works resurfaced after 1991, others have not.

 

[jhungary]

Actually, the top 3 nations with most of their stolen treasure during WW2 are as follow

Nazi Germany, Japan and Russia.

Your treasure is long gone man, they are either lost or laundered. It no point crying over it.

 

[Genesis]

If you really read my post, you would have seen what I was actually saying. Solomon2 was right, in his last point.

However to answer a few questions, YuanmingYuan was sacked by the 8 nation alliance and countless treasures looted and Yuanmingyuan burned. It's well known, you can look it up if you wish.

I know my Napoleon history, some of the art and statues are in Rome and other places now. They are quite famous, easy to trace if you like. Look horses of st. mark.

Those treasures mean nothing to me and it would only mean something to maybe a collector or archaeologist. The implication behind this is, the disrespect shown to China by the Europeans. Their economy is all but done and their military heavily reliant on US.

Notice this time I didn't use the word West, just Europeans. I never accuse America of something like this though, some American soldiers in the 8 nation alliance did steal I didn't attribute this to America.

One America isn't dead, two, America has strangely a sense of justice about things that matters very little.

 

[jhungary]

If you really read my post, you would have seen what I was actually saying. Solomon2 was right, in his last point.

However to answer a few questions, YuanmingYuan was sacked by the 8 nation alliance and countless treasures looted and Yuanmingyuan burned. It's well known, you can look it up if you wish.

I know my Napoleon history, some of the art and statues are in Rome and other places now. They are quite famous, easy to trace if you like. Look horses of st. mark.

Those treasures mean nothing to me and it would only mean something to maybe a collector or archaeologist. The implication behind this is, the disrespect shown to China by the Europeans. Their economy is all but done and their military heavily reliant on US.

Notice this time I didn't use the word West, just Europeans. I never accuse America of something like this though, some American soldiers in the 8 nation alliance did steal I didn't attribute this to America.

One America isn't dead, two, America has strangely a sense of justice about things that matters very little.

Everybody steals in war. Even I did. I got home some nice AK from Iraqi Insurgent. As well as some personal effect.

Problem is, even if the European wanted to do it, its a hard, long and complicated procedure.

1.) You need to track down the item, where they are now. What famous in China does not automatically made famous anywhere else. it take quite some time to track down the item you want.

2.) To retrieve the item. It's not like you can drive up to the museum of Natural History in UK or France and demand they return your stuff. It's even harder to request form a private collection. There will be a long and exhausting legal battle.

3.) Even if you retrieved them, you are to return to "The Rightful Owner" Not the Chinese government. How to track them down is another situation.

Not like the European are disrespecting China, but who are going to pay for all those cost involved? EU, China or private finance? If you want the EU to pay for it, they will not do anything. If China is paying for it, well......Good luck on that. Private owner may not have enough money to pay for it.

It's harder than you think in this kind of things. And obliviously you had not think it thru

 

[Genesis]

Everybody steals in war. Even I did. I got home some nice AK from Iraqi Insurgent. As well as some personal effect.

Problem is, even if the European wanted to do it, its a hard, long and complicated procedure.

1.) You need to track down the item, where they are now. What famous in China does not automatically made famous anywhere else. it take quite some time to track down the item you want.

2.) To retrieve the item. It's not like you can drive up to the museum of Natural History in UK or France and demand they return your stuff. It's even harder to request form a private collection. There will be a long and exhausting legal battle.

3.) Even if you retrieved them, you are to return to "The Rightful Owner" Not the Chinese government. How to track them down is another situation.

Not like the European are disrespecting China, but who are going to pay for all those cost involved? EU, China or private finance? If you want the EU to pay for it, they will not do anything. If China is paying for it, well......Good luck on that. Private owner may not have enough money to pay for it.

It's harder than you think in this kind of things. And obliviously you had not think it thru

I'm not sure what you didn't get from my previous post? I'm not really looking for results. The payment will obviously from EU. However I do agree the EU is not yet weak enough or China strong enough to pressure, but we'll get there.

The implication is EU will use money to look for goods that matters not. This is a political gesture that the sun has completely set on the empire the sun never sets. That the humiliation China suffered is accounted for, not for revenge but for prestige.

 

[Solomon2]

I should add that when art stolen by the Nazis has ended up in private American hands the original owners have found it quite difficult to get the art back. Elizabeth Taylor had a Van Gogh in that category (her dad was in the art business) that she refused to give up. The notoriously "liberal" (that is, left-wing) Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals let her keep it: link

 

[Genesis]

I should add that when art stolen by the Nazis has ended up in private American hands the original owners have found it quite difficult to get the art back. Elizabeth Taylor had a Van Gogh in that category (her dad was in the art business) that she refused to give up. The notoriously "liberal" (that is, left-wing) Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals let her keep it: link

Well usually the puppet don't tell the master what to do, usually. One batman villain comes to mind. However the german American one don't seems to be that....

 

[jhungary]

I'm not sure what you didn't get from my previous post? I'm not really looking for results. The payment will obviously from EU. However I do agree the EU is not yet weak enough or China strong enough to pressure, but we'll get there.

The implication is EU will use money to look for goods that matters not. This is a political gesture that the sun has completely set on the empire the sun never sets. That the humiliation China suffered is accounted for, not for revenge but for prestige.

If you want the EU to pay for the cost, then good luck on that. They hardly have money to pay for themselves.

Again, I don't think this is that top of the Chinese Government agenda now or in the near future. It maybe sentimental to some individual, I just cannot see how Chinese government want the European to return the treasure stolen from 8 Nation alliance or at least make a gesture out of it. Probably not in my lifetime (I am 33 years old)

 

[longyi]

Many precious artifacts have already returned to China through private auction bidding last few years and this trend will continued. Don't worry, they all will come back to China one way or the other.

 

[Solomon2]

Many precious artifacts have already returned to China through private auction bidding last few years and this trend will continued. Don't worry, they all will come back to China one way or the other.

I will add that I have a sort of personal interest in the matter. In the 1998 financial crisis a number of Chinese dumped their treasures on the market cheaply. I bought some of these. I sold them last year - making sure to do so in Hong Kong, so Chinese would have first crack at getting them back.

Yes, I made a profit. But I did keep them from getting melted or scrapped for over a decade, didn't I?

 

[longyi]

I will add that I have a sort of personal interest in the matter. In the 1998 financial crisis a number of Chinese dumped their treasures on the market cheaply. I bought some of these. I sold them last year - making sure to do so in Hong Kong, so Chinese would have first crack at getting them back.

Yes, I made a profit. But I did keep them from getting melted or scrapped for over a decade, didn't I?

I don't think those were the national treasures the OP meant though, but thanks nonetheless.

 

[Genesis]

I will add that I have a sort of personal interest in the matter. In the 1998 financial crisis a number of Chinese dumped their treasures on the market cheaply. I bought some of these. I sold them last year - making sure to do so in Hong Kong, so Chinese would have first crack at getting them back.

Yes, I made a profit. But I did keep them from getting melted or scrapped for over a decade, didn't I?

The ones you bought were probaly good, but they are just regular goods and can be freely traded anywhere in the world, there's this teir of goods in EU too. The ones I am talking about are royal.

Like the ones Louis Bonaparte took, the royal jewelry of the Spanish crown to America.

look I am not blaming anyone, if I saw a take some sign I would probably be the first person in there, while punching the second in the head.

But, the point is to prove to the world once and for all that aside from the US, the West is done, in fact the US is the West, the rest are just entourage. Also, China is a leader running after the US, and when two leaders discuss matters, the secretary can take notes, but has no place to talk or sit.

 

[Juice]

like what? I'm sure over centuries through Chinese wars China has taken something, what are you referring to?
@Juice @anon45

so you are pretty much saying that taking it is no big deal. If somebody stole something from you would you buy it back.

This is the attitude i'm talking about. You guys show American flags, so in America people keep guns to protect themselves and property even though 99 percent of those people got things that bums won't want.

This is Chinese national treasure. It is more than apparent the disrespect shown here. But there's a chinese saying a men getting his revenge 10 years later is not late. Now we play the waiting game....

India was colonized i'm sure a few things were taken.

I would not let them steal in the first place. When you are colonized....you lose rights....period.

 

[Genesis]

I would not let them steal in the first place. When you are colonized....you lose rights....period.

You forget what America started out as?

 

[Juice]

You forget what America started out as?

I thought Asians were smart....do you not know the difference from colonizing and being colonized? If you can't figure it out....I can give examples. In any case....you should want stuff in museums to appreciate the culture....I am willing to bet there is western art in China.