China’s border row with India has misfired, says regional security expert

[faithfulguy]

ancient India was bonded culturally, politically it has been big or fragmented at different periods. But after independence India has been united culturally as well as politically, so today's India is not equal to European union but much above that when it comes to unity, so take your dream of fragmented and weaker India elsewhere.

Its not a dream, but what is best for India. Today's union government is too corrupt to rule the whole India. Its time for the parts to govern themselves. Once the people and the government achieve a level of maturity in the state level, than they can form one government. this is how US proceed from colonies, states and then the federal government.

 

[LURKER]

A united India is a British creation. As prior to the British, there were empires that rule most of India. But they were empire for themselves. Once the particular empire break up, the successive government do not claim as a continuation of that previous government.

India was India before the british arrived whether it was politically fragemented or not is a different case. Its true that britshers gave rise to nationalistic feelings but it would be futile to discuss what would be the political scenario in India had british not arrived. Things could have worked out anyways, people could have revolted against the mughal rule had it continued for a democratic government for instance. Besides a few regions it would be have been the same India ( with even some more territory ).

Your last statement does not make any sense. Does any kingdom in China claimed as a continuation of a previous kingdom?

 

[LURKER]

Its not a dream, but what is best for India. Today's union government is too corrupt to rule the whole India. Its time for the parts to govern themselves. Once the people and the government achieve a level of maturity in the state level, than they can form one government. this is how US proceed from colonies, states and then the federal government.

Why do we have to follow the US example

Even the Chinese CPC is corrupt and there's no democracy. How about China break up and let different provinces democratize and provide freedom of choice to people , then they can decide to join and form a union. How about you practice what you preach ?

 

[President]

china's people have to also ask their govt if they can have more than one kid..

Do they also have to ask the govt when to make the baby also???

 

[faithfulguy]

India was India before the british arrived whether it was politically fragemented or not is a different case. Its true that britshers gave rise to nationalistic feelings but it would be futile to discuss what would be the political scenario in India had british not arrived. Things could have worked out anyways, people could have revolted against the mughal rule had it continued for a democratic government for instance. Besides a few regions it would be have been the same India ( with even some more territory ).

Your last statement does not make any sense. Does any kingdom in China claimed as a continuation of a previous kingdom?

The revolt against Mughal rule was underway. And there were Maratha, Sihk, Nawal of Bangal, Nizam of Hyderabad, Sultan of Mysore, etc. These are most likely the kingdoms in India today if the British did not united India.

China was ruled by dynasties and had a central government. Each dynasty claim to receive the right to rule when they overthrow the previous dynasty. And each government claim all others as rebels. This legacy has pass down to modern time. Even Taiwan would not accept another country recognize CCP in Beijing as the government of China as the nationalist in Taiwan believe that is has not lost the right to rule China. This is an example of continuation of one nation. This also happened in ancient Egypt and various European nations once they achieved statehood. But this never happened in history of India until British arrival. They start to regard all other Indian states as illegitimate. And guess who is the first empress of India? Victoria Wettin. Better known as Queen Victoria of England.

Why do we have to follow the US example

Even the Chinese CPC is corrupt and there's no democracy. How about China break up and let different provinces democratize and provide freedom of choice to people , then they can decide to join and form a union. How about you practice what you preach ?

Actually, a strong central government is build into the history of China. You need to study about on Chinese history before you comment about them. Like how I had study up on Indian history.

 

[shuntmaster]

The revolt against Mughal rule was underway. And there were Maratha, Sihk, Nawal of Bangal, Nizam of Hyderabad, Sultan of Mysore, etc. These are most likely the kingdoms in India today if the British did not united India.

China was ruled by dynasties and had a central government. Each dynasty claim to receive the right to rule when they overthrow the previous dynasty. And each government claim all others as rebels. This legacy has pass down to modern time. Even Taiwan would not accept another country recognize CCP in Beijing as the government of China as the nationalist in Taiwan believe that is has not lost the right to rule China. This is an example of continuation of one nation. This also happened in ancient Egypt and various European nations once they achieved statehood. But this never happened in history of India until British arrival. They start to regard all other Indian states as illegitimate. And guess who is the first empress of India? Victoria Wettin. Better known as Queen Victoria of England.



Actually, a strong central government is build into the history of China. You need to study about on Chinese history before you comment about them. Like how I had study up on Indian history.

India was united under various empires/dynasties even before Mughals. This was the Mauryan empire in 255BC.

As regards to the speculation, what would be the status of India if there was no British Raj, it could have been anything.. May be someone would have united the country and made it into an imperial power or maybe it would have splintered into dozens of small states...

 

[idune]

China’s border row with India has misfired, says an Indian security expert

 

[LURKER]

The revolt against Mughal rule was underway. And there were Maratha, Sihk, Nawal of Bangal, Nizam of Hyderabad, Sultan of Mysore, etc. These are most likely the kingdoms in India today if the British did not united India.

China was ruled by dynasties and had a central government. Each dynasty claim to receive the right to rule when they overthrow the previous dynasty. And each government claim all others as rebels. This legacy has pass down to modern time. Even Taiwan would not accept another country recognize CCP in Beijing as the government of China as the nationalist in Taiwan believe that is has not lost the right to rule China. This is an example of continuation of one nation. This also happened in ancient Egypt and various European nations once they achieved statehood. But this never happened in history of India until British arrival. They start to regard all other Indian states as illegitimate. And guess who is the first empress of India? Victoria Wettin. Better known as Queen Victoria of England.



Actually, a strong central government is build into the history of China. You need to study about on Chinese history before you comment about them. Like how I had study up on Indian history.

Which dynasty besides the Qing dynasty ruled over entire China?

All these nawabs and rajas rose to power when central power was weak as i have commented before. To guess what would have been the political structure of India had there been no British is like shooting in the dark.

Even during british rule entire India fought against them under the banner of India ,not for their kingdoms or provinces whether they were from Madras or Punjab. Even Burma was part of the British India but they didn't struggle against the british with the rest of the Indians nor did the Indians bother about them.



As for the central rule claim . Every king that ruled over Delhi claimed to be the ruler of India and tried to unify the entire country under a single rule as with the case of chinese kingdoms.They didn't rule over entire present day china through your entire course of history.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Its not a dream, but what is best for India. Today's union government is too corrupt to rule the whole India. Its time for the parts to govern themselves. Once the people and the government achieve a level of maturity in the state level, than they can form one government. this is how US proceed from colonies, states and then the federal government.

It's not like as if there is no corruption in states, in fact many state govts are worst than union govt, so that argument is flawed.
second thing is India is a diverse country so a strong center is a must.

 

[LURKER]

The revolt against Mughal rule was underway. And there were Maratha, Sihk, Nawal of Bangal, Nizam of Hyderabad, Sultan of Mysore, etc. These are most likely the kingdoms in India today if the British did not united India.

China was ruled by dynasties and had a central government. Each dynasty claim to receive the right to rule when they overthrow the previous dynasty. And each government claim all others as rebels. This legacy has pass down to modern time. Even Taiwan would not accept another country recognize CCP in Beijing as the government of China as the nationalist in Taiwan believe that is has not lost the right to rule China. This is an example of continuation of one nation. This also happened in ancient Egypt and various European nations once they achieved statehood. But this never happened in history of India until British arrival. They start to regard all other Indian states as illegitimate. And guess who is the first empress of India? Victoria Wettin. Better known as Queen Victoria of England.



Actually, a strong central government is build into the history of China. You need to study about on Chinese history before you comment about them. Like how I had study up on Indian history.

double post...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Shut my trap?

The bottom line is that according to you, Chinese soldiers were 20 km inside Indian territory for several weeks. While all of India went into panic mode, with countless articles moaning about how they had no guts to kick out the Chinese soldiers.

And in the end, India was the one who backed down, by destroying an entire set of strategic bunkers on their side, by halting all infrastructure work in the region, and by stopping all troop patrols in Chumar.

While we had to do nothing at all. If you think that is your victory then go ahead, I'm used to seeing twisted logic in this forum anyway.

As usual lying through ur teeth,no bunkers were destroyed,no compromise made.A tine shed removed.Right from mouth of northern command head general.Confirmed by your own govt.Ur rhetoric only exists in ur brain.

The revolt against Mughal rule was underway. And there were Maratha, Sihk, Nawal of Bangal, Nizam of Hyderabad, Sultan of Mysore, etc. These are most likely the kingdoms in India today if the British did not united India.

China was ruled by dynasties and had a central government. Each dynasty claim to receive the right to rule when they overthrow the previous dynasty. And each government claim all others as rebels. This legacy has pass down to modern time. Even Taiwan would not accept another country recognize CCP in Beijing as the government of China as the nationalist in Taiwan believe that is has not lost the right to rule China. This is an example of continuation of one nation. This also happened in ancient Egypt and various European nations once they achieved statehood. But this never happened in history of India until British arrival. They start to regard all other Indian states as illegitimate. And guess who is the first empress of India? Victoria Wettin. Better known as Queen Victoria of England.



Actually, a strong central government is build into the history of China. You need to study about on Chinese history before you comment about them. Like how I had study up on Indian history.

Plz all indian dynasties first around pataliputra then delhi attempted to unify by power,they were not always succesful.First emeperor of india is mahapadma nanda actually.But more generally chandragupta maurya.
Just because italy was divided into naples,venice,papal states,milan for over thousand years and whole of middle ages doesn't mean italian identity was gone .Ur desperation is apparent.

 

[President]

Its not a dream, but what is best for India. Today's union government is too corrupt to rule the whole India. Its time for the parts to govern themselves. Once the people and the government achieve a level of maturity in the state level, than they can form one government. this is how US proceed from colonies, states and then the federal government.

Try with china first and then let us know

 

[JSCh]

hogwash.... mandate of heaven is just a philosophy created by some ruler... any King or warload can create his own philospohy...

Mandate of Hitler

Mandate of Ghengis Khan etc etc.

if Ghengiz Khan issued a Mandate saying whole of China is part of Mongolia, will that mean Mongols will rule over the Hans today? A philosophy has no value. its just ones own wish or belief.

keeping aside wishful philospohy of some king, But the actual fact is different and it is that warloads/kings ruled China and that means China was not a single country....

obviously when different kings fight for the pie, they would end up with bigger and smaller kingdoms depending upon who manages to win....

it shows China was never a country.... but different warloads and kings fought to control whatever portion they can.... in such circumstances you could never call it a country...

other wise going by your definition whole of Africa is one country...

Contrary to this India was always a country. That is why we call 1947 as partition of India.

Yes, philosophy is just believe and idea.

The idea of India as a nation state is also a philosophy, but how long ago has that philosophy started, believed and executed on into fact?

The fact is, the idea of China has been passed on from generation to generation and largely continuously maintained for the last 2000 years, it is independent of temporal power/believe of individual emperor/king/warlord. Every dynasty has court official that are professional historian. They would record, research, investigate, seek opinion, debate, discuss and work out a consensus on an orthodox/official version of history going from ancient to current time. Just like what a modern nation would do(? at least China(PRC and ROC) today had do that).

When one of the world most populous race and a significant portion of the world population believe in and actively carried out a philosophy for a significant period in human history, it is no longer JUST an empty philosophy, it is a fact to be reckon with.

It is this believe that brought about the fact that, for most of the time in Chinese history, China is one united country with only one dynasty that carry the ancient banner of China.

 

[shree835]

Its not a dream, but what is best for India. Today's union government is too corrupt to rule the whole India. Its time for the parts to govern themselves. Once the people and the government achieve a level of maturity in the state level, than they can form one government. this is how US proceed from colonies, states and then the federal government.

Again you came up with your $hit....CHINI Guys got killed like a RAT at Tienanmen square...And Still you did not got the maturity...First Implement your Idea at CHINA, then we will see later.

 

[Nisha]

From the Greek sources :

"The whole region from Phrygia to the Indus was subject to Seleucus. He crossed the Indus and waged war with Sandrocottus [Maurya], king of the Indians, who dwelt on the banks of that stream, until they came to an understanding with each other and contracted a marriage relationship."

The geographical position of the tribes is as follows: along the Indus are the Paropamisadae, above whom lies the Paropamisus mountain: then, towards the south, the Arachoti: then next, towards the south, the Gedroseni, with the other tribes that occupy the seaboard; and the Indus lies, latitudinally, alongside all these places; and of these places, in part, some that lie along the Indus are held by Indians, although they formerly belonged to the Persians. Alexander [III 'the Great' of Macedon] took these away from the Arians and established settlements of his own, but Seleucus Nicator gave them to Sandrocottus [Chandragupta], upon terms of intermarriage and of receiving in exchange five hundred elephants. — Strabo 15.2.9"

"Most geographers, in fact, do not look upon India as bounded by the river Indus, but add to it the four satrapies of the Gedrose, the Arachotë, the Aria, and the Paropamisadë, the River Cophes thus forming the extreme boundary of India. According to other writers, however, all these territories, are reckoned as belonging to the country of the Aria. — Pliny, Natural History VI, 23"

Pliny the Elder, The Natural History (eds. John Bostock, M.D., F.R.S., H.T. Riley, Esq., B.A.)





Ashoka only conquered kalinga , rest of the territories were already under the Mauryas . Chandragupta Maurya had acquired lands upto eastern persia by defeating Seleucus Nicator.

Need to check your facts:


Ashoka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ascending the throne, Ashoka expanded his empire over the next eight years, from the present-day boundaries and regions of Burma–Bangladesh and the state of Assam in India in the east to the territory of present-day Iran / Persia and Afghanistan in the west; from the Pamir Knots in the north almost to the peninsula of southern India (i.e. Tamil Nadu / Andhra Pradesh)

Yes, philosophy is just believe and idea.

The idea of India as a nation state is also a philosophy, but how long ago has that philosophy started, believed and executed on into fact?

The fact is, the idea of China has been passed on from generation to generation and largely continuously maintained for the last 2000 years, it is independent of temporal power/believe of individual emperor/king/warlord. Every dynasty has court official that are professional historian. They would record, research, investigate, seek opinion, debate, discuss and work out a consensus on an orthodox/official version of history going from ancient to current time. Just like what a modern nation would do(? at least China(PRC and ROC) today had do that).

When one of the world most populous race and a significant portion of the world population believe in and actively carried out a philosophy for a significant period in human history, it is no longer JUST an empty philosophy, it is a fact to be reckon with.

It is this believe that brought about the fact that, for most of the time in Chinese history, China is one united country with only one dynasty that carry the ancient banner of China.

Right Thank India for bearing the brunt of Islamic and European invasions. Thank the Gods for the Himalayas which acted as a firm deterrent and barrier to such invasions.