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China rescue option emerges as Pakistan slapped with $5.9bn fine

If I could explain, why it's not a good idea to simply give the proverbial finger at this.

1. These specific International courts have jurisdiction over contract dispute resolution and arbitration over any countries highest judicial body. They can pass judgment even on international contracts when the contract is between a country and an international private firm.

2. Judgments are binding in terms of fees and penalties ONLY. BUT- they can't enforce it.

3. However, not paying penalties have detrimental consequences. In this case, Pakistan's credit rating suffers because the credit rating agencies see Pakistan's non-compliance as not fulfilling its obligations. Future FDI investors see this as a wrong place to invest and Pakistan as not being a trustworthy partner in honoring its signed commitments.

The credit Pakistan mostly gets are state-to-state affairs and Pakistan barely ever borrows commercially internationally speaking. This IMF loan is the last, if the government is to be believed. I believe Pak has to look beyond the conventional acceptance of these credit rating agencies as the policemen who keep states under check.

This system allows economic hitmen to destroy Third World country finances, and binds governments to the dictates of Western powers. The scenario works in this way - loan money comes in, the western-backed elite that take this loan, quickly siphon the money back to the West, along with their children and relatives, and then either continue to rule as long as possible or leaves to settle and live comfortably in London, Paris or the US or wherever.

We have seen this process repeatedly in many Third World states and unless this issue is addressed by the powers that be, we cannot, on principle, accept their system as is. Thus, it is incumbent on us to refuse this system and move on to a more fair and just system, and the first step to this is to refuse such "bindings" and credit rating blackmail.
 
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Solution 1
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Simplest Solution , give them back licence to do Minning (Profit share basis) and give a finger to that old Supreme court judge who was kabab main haddi


The Antofagasta PLC controlled by majority shareholders Chile's Luksic Group holds a 50% interest in Tethyan Copper Company Limited (“Tethyan”), its joint venture with Barrick Gold Corporation (“Barrick”). Tethyan is seeking to develop the Reko Diq copper-gold deposit in the Chagai Hills District of the province of Balochistan in south-west Pakistan. Tethyan has held a 75% interest in an exploration licence encompassing the Reko Diq deposit, with the Government of Balochistan (the provincial authority) holding the remaining 25% interest, resulting in an effective interest for the Antofagasta group of 37.5%



Foreigners hold 75% Rights
Government of Baluchistan 25% Rights


They have a clause to remove Gold Copper out of Pakistan , prevent that annul it so we can track just how much Gold and Copper is being extracted, their is chance of Nigeria like exploit



Solution 2 (Preferred)
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If Pakistan Establishment is certain their is 1 Trillion Ton of Gold and Copper then by all means , give new contract to Chinese company and , pay off the old company (200 million for their expenses)



I personally would do a 55%-45% Profit share between Government of China and Pakistan on the Riqo Diq Mine :china::pakistan:

Why would someone awarded a binding judgment of over $5billion, negotiate to take only $500million?


Because we have Nuclear weapon they bring their ship we will blast it to pieces they can shove their international court up their ***
 
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There Are Many Options On The Table Even If GoP Restores The Original Contract Pakistan and Balochistan Do Not Lose.Pakistan Should Only Insist On Local Content Requirements.Not Only Will We Save In Penalty But Also The $6 to $7 Billion FDI Will Result In Massive Strengthening Of Our Rupee.

Remember If This Contract Had Been Allowed To Pass Through This Would Have Been The Largest Single FDI In The History Of Pakistan And Would Have Opened Up Pakistan To Other Companies In Mining and Minerals
 
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Right now mine is full under control by someone and they almost took pakistan all mines in northren areas also.
You peoples have no idea whats going on in minning sector.
Honestly rich corrupt peoples,officers in pakistan from institution's and politicians drying out all resources.
Allah pakistan par rehem kare.


People use the word "some one" when they lack the knowledge of facts or logic.
Can you come up with some facts, names, logic, before using the word "some one" and starting with a blame oriented post?
 
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Pakistan hasn't paid any international fine on such cases yet only dragged the issue with appeals and reviews the company knows it in end a settlement will be made on much lower figure then above mentioned ;)
 
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This is the Sovereign Judgement by the highest court of Pakistan
which will be defended by the Law enforcement and Military of Pakistan

If Laws of country were not followed in contracting such a contract is Void

Tomorrow Bhutto or Zardari or Sharif will sign a document to sell Pakistan to a Patwari then International court will come ask for keys to country as well

RIQODIQJUDGEMENT.jpg
 
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That or something akin to that....is what likely will end up happening.

They can get the mining permit and some kind of excise rate cut for operations (that amounts to some out of court settlement). But the sticking point could be the judgement by the Supreme Court of Pakistan that will need to be re-litigated and overturned?...because that is after all a ruling/verdict that still in play right now.

I don't know what the process is like in Pakistan for that.

Maybe a more knowledgeable person on the matter can comment.

@VCheng @niaz @Oscar @ziaulislam @ps3linux
Sorry got back yesterday morning after a week of hectic travel about 6 days and 5 countries all business, let me get my wits back and get rid of jetlag.
 
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There are a couple of options in my opinion. Without paying a dime from GoP's pocket. This btw will test the mettle of this govt.

Option1
Negotiate a new contract with Tethyan Copper, with penalties awarded annulled, new Contract fee of US$2bn to be paid by Tethyan Copper, plus US$10bn of royalties in advance.

This can be deducted from future royalties, over a 30yr period. So total US$12bn now.
Worst case scenario, they say no.

Option2

Find a new mining company, willing to pay upfront, the US$5bn+ penalty, plus a US$2bn contract fee, and US$10Bn royalty in advance.

US$17bn+ in the mining industry, plus given the proven reserves, is a very reasonable amount.


People, particularly clueless journalists, start jumping - nobody will give you a loan for US$5bn, only China will etc.

Idiots like these should stick to playing pigeon, report facts on the ground and shut up.


good luck with both
 
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Just my POV, What GoP does is another story.

the royalties in advance is not going to work with Pakistani government. the mining companies know when they see a bunch of charlatans hiding in garb of government. they have seen plenty of those

no offense meant
 
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the royalties in advance is not going to work with Pakistani government. the mining companies know when they see a bunch of charlatans hiding in garb of government. they have seen plenty of those

no offense meant
Govt to Govt Contracts, can insure that this does not happen.
 
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Khuda ka wasta hai don't give this mine to Yajooj Majooj. They literally licked clean the Saindak mines. Do NOT give them this as well.

Right now mine is full under control by someone and they almost took pakistan all mines in northren areas also.
You peoples have no idea whats going on in minning sector.
Honestly rich corrupt peoples,officers in pakistan from institution's and politicians drying out all resources.
Allah pakistan par rehem kare.

Are you talking about FWO?
 
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That or something akin to that....is what likely will end up happening.

They can get the mining permit and some kind of excise rate cut for operations (that amounts to some out of court settlement). But the sticking point could be the judgement by the Supreme Court of Pakistan that will need to be re-litigated and overturned?...because that is after all a ruling/verdict that still in play right now.

I don't know what the process is like in Pakistan for that.

Maybe a more knowledgeable person on the matter can comment.

@VCheng @niaz @Oscar @ziaulislam @ps3linux

First thing supreme court can review the decision based upon new request, but to overturn it the bench strength has to be larger than the previous one e.g if the previous decision was by 3 judges, now the overturn decision has to be made by 5 or 7 judges or full bench.

The way our bureaucracy / politicians/forces are in the false pretense of "brotherly relations" with china I have no doubt we will be looking towards them to save our bacon without giving a thought to the flip side of the coin. Zardari gave away Saindak Copper/silver/gold mine to Chinese almost a decade ago for $50 million which was never paid, there is no accounting as to how much copper/silver/gold was mined and send to china now the company has defaulted my guess is that the mining would have become difficult and major deposits would have been mined out. I am sure we will enjoy the fruits of such brotherly notion if we look towards china.

On an intellectual level for countries which have not developed indigenous mining expertise have never enjoyed the benefits of rich mineral resources or for that matter under the thumb of invaders, I could quote dozens of examples from history to modern day what change did the fabled mines of malwa did for the people of madhya pradesh they always benefited brigands and invaders like ghaznavi, ghouri and the mughals (I came to know about malwa when I was apprised of family history and showed a centuries old gold nugget in family archive claimed to be from the same mine). Gold, diamond, ruby, copper, aluminium mines of africa have not done anything to improve the lives of Africans they have benefited only the foreign companies like barrick. Aluminium, Lithium, rubies are mined out of Afghanistan and who is getting the benefit out of it.

My Favorite statement is "there are no permanent enemies, there are no permanent friends, only permanent interests" for me the interest of my country are most important, and giving mining rights through bas*ard bureaucracy likes ours is a recipe for disaster.

There is a local saying in my ancestral Punjabi roughly translated as "a pretty daughter is a curse for a poor father" likewise precious resources for poor countries too is a curse for them they will never benefit out of it except being cannon fodder (read cheap labor) "Job creation" (claims by these exploiting companies/countries).

Word from horse's mouth is that anti corruption drive of incumbent Govt and corruption proof on Karkey case has scared Barrick as well that's one of the reason they want to renegotiate, if GoP can find proof that kickback were given to people for signing this agreement whihc was totally against the interests of Pakistan and Pakistan goes for an appeal Barrick will be in deeeeeeeeeeeep Sheeeeeeeeet.

I keep harping that while we put politicians/generals to trial on corruption it is time we start hanging the bureaucrats for signing these traitorous agreements. Something we south asians have in common is traitorous bureaucrats;).
 
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https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/In...n-emerges-as-Pakistan-slapped-with-5.9bn-fine


QUETTA, Pakistan -- The possibility of Pakistan seeking assistance from China is emerging after the government was slapped with a $5.95 billion fine in a legal dispute over rights for a copper and gold mine in the country.

Tethyan Copper had filed a case against Pakistan with the International Court for Settlement of Investment Disputes in 2012 for violating an agreement that the company signed with Pakistan for exploration and mining of the Reko Diq mine.

The court issued its decision in 2017 in favor of Tethyan Copper, a joint venture between Barrick Gold of Canada and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile, with hearings continuing to determine the amount of damages to be paid by Pakistan. On Saturday, the court announced that the government of Prime Minister Imran Khan must pay a total fine of $5.9 billion -- a $4.08 billion penalty and $1.87 billion in interest.

Legal experts say Pakistan cannot appeal the court's decision and that it can only apply for technical review, whereby the government can ask the court to review the amount of damages. That process could take up to three years, which would offer Pakistan more time before the fine is due.

The amount of damages Pakistan has been ordered to pay is nearly equal to the recently approved bailout package from the International Monetary Fund.

The damages also are twice the amount of Balochistan's annual budgeted expenditures, which means Pakistan in all likelihood will have to look quickly for payment options. One of the strongest options, according to analysts, is its northern neighbor: China.

Reko Diq sits in Pakistan's southwest Balochistan province, at the triangular border with Iran and Afghanistan. The mine has gold reserves with an estimated value of more than $100 billion.

Work at Reko Diq has been suspended since 2011, when Pakistan rejected the application of Tethyan Copper to mine the area. Before that, Pakistan and Tethyan Copper agreed that the company would conduct a feasibility study under an exploration license and that it would apply for a mining license to carry out the mining.

The board chairman of Tethyan Copper, William Hayes, has said that his company is ready to enter a settlement for a mutually beneficial solution with Pakistan. That could pave the way for a third party like China to help settle the case.

"Given the ever-growing domestic consumption of gold in China and Beijing's interest in investing in gold and copper mining industries abroad, I won't be surprised if China makes a bid to take over the Reko Diq gold mine project and offers to pay the penalty in return for long-term lease and exclusive ownership rights," said Mohan Malik, a professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Hawaii.

Malik said that such an arrangement would likely result in greater Chinese control over Pakistan's economy and strategic industries. "However, this short-term gain could turn out to be a net loss for Pakistan's economy over the long term," he said.

Pakistan in recent years has relied heavily on Chinese investment and loans to support its economy. The $62 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, or CPEC, is a flagship program in Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative.

"Given the critical role that Pakistan plays in Beijing's Belt and Road project, one can't dismiss the possibility that Beijing would seek to leverage the Reko Diq case to its advantage," said Michael Kugelman, the deputy director of Asia programs at the Wilson Center in Washington.

Kugelman believes that China will first carry out a risk assessment before it makes a move on Reko Diq. "If China concludes that the financial, security and reputational risks are tolerable, then we can't rule out Beijing jumping into the fray and seeking to take ownership of [the Reko Diq] project," he said.

Experts believe that China has been interested in Reko Diq for years.

"The Chinese were very instrumental in lobbying to dislodge [Tethyan Copper] from Reko Diq in 2012," said Malik Siraj Akbar, a Washington-based Balochistan expert. He added that there will still be a push from Beijing to gain a controlling interest in Reko Diq.

China has already faced attacks from Baloch insurgents, and investing more in the region could be risky. Most recently, the insurgents in May attacked a luxury hotel in the province's port town of Gwadar, where foreign businessmen, including Chinese, often stay. Nine people, including the four insurgents, were killed.

"Now with CPEC and mounting attacks on the Chinese by Baloch armed groups, handing over Reko Diq to China will further give credence to the Baloch insurgent's narrative," Akbar said.

Kugelman believes that a Chinese takeover of the Reko Diq project would further embed China in Pakistan's risky but tempting investment climate, and that, he says, is exactly what Beijing wants -- as long as it continues to view CPEC as a crucial project.
technical review it is 3 years later we shall revisit this thread.. good.
 
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