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China, not America, likely behind Hafiz Saeed's house arrest

They were going to invade Iraq, depose Saddam, remove any WMD, establish democracy, not control Iraqi oil and eventually leave.
Are you sure your oright? They could hardly have hidden a invasion, hidden toppling of Saddam. Everything besides that was pure lies. There were no WMDs. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
 
Are you sure your oright? They could hardly have hidden a invasion, hidden toppling of Saddam. Everything besides that was pure lies. There were no WMDs. Are you sure you know what your talking about?

The only lie was WMD. What else was a lie ??

In any case life is better for 80% of Iraqis.
 
You mean like US invasion of Iraq. We saw transparency in actions, in words, in ideas and even evidence in test tubes in front of the world. All lies, lies and more lies.

@Kaptaan You are being too harsh. The US is fairly transparent - at least as transparent as a big active country can be. The fact that their own senators and congressmen dissed the WMD claims of Powell in open hearings (and a candidate used that to campaign successful for president) is tribute to the candour with which they govern. Just look at the senate confirmation hearings or the senate testimony available on CPAN.

India and Pakistan, on the other hand are far more obsessed with secrecy - no doubt a convenient legacy of the Raj - and only marginally better than China - where every request for information as a citizen is treated with suspicion and a default tendency is to block information. I disagree with the American on many things but the level of transparency in public administration and government business is not one of them.

Nothing to take away the blatant lie of the Iraq invasion though. The difference is that in Asia such a lie would never be uncovered.
 
Are you sure your oright? They could hardly have hidden a invasion, hidden toppling of Saddam. Everything besides that was pure lies. There were no WMDs. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
Okay. Let's for the argument's sake say that US is not transparent. US is opaque. But how do you justify your earlier post that China is more transparent than US? There are allegations that they (Chinese) did something in Tibet.

^ Class A twat. Waste of my time.
However bad he be, he is better than you because I guess he doesn't ignore facts.
 
You mean like US invasion of Iraq. We saw transparency in actions, in words, in ideas and even evidence in test tubes in front of the world. All lies, lies and more lies.


Edit. I guess China does not have try that hard to match USA in transparency.

Being transparent and being lies to is two different things......

Being transparent is being public about all sort of decision making. you don't hide whatever and whenever you have to make your decision. Transparancy give your country cheque and balance as the population can judge whether or not the government is trustworthy for the people, and govern right for the people.

Lying to the public is another thing, let's say US lied about WMD in Iraq (Do remember US did find expired Nerve Gas in Iraq in 2008) how do the public know that the government is lying to them if the country is not transparant? The government can hide all evidence and do not need to publish them so the public will never know they have been lie to. The reason we know the government is lying BECUASE THEY ARE TRANSPARENT. They show everthing to you, even if that stuff is incriminating themselves.

That is the different between Transparent and Lying.
 
Being transparent and being lies to is two different things
I know. Transparency is in itself has nominal value. Decision making is a process and as a military man you should know that. That process entails recieving information and then using that as basis of your decision.

That decision making process can be as transparent as new born baby but if the information provided or used is false then the decision so arrived very likely will be catastrophicaly wrong. Transparency can be manipulated as shown by Colin Powell. The Bush administration edited the intel that was brought to the publics attention and in doing so cheated. Nobody has been held to account in USA. Couple of 100,000 Iraqi's are dead and Iraq has turned into terrorist factory but all that does not matter. As long we can have 'transparency'.


The only lie was WMD. What else was a lie ??
That is like saying "I put a bullet in your head. What else wrong did I do"?
 
I know. Transparency is in itself has nominal value. Decision making is a process and as a military man you should know that. That process entails recieving information and then using that as basis of your decision.

That decision making process can be as transparent as new born baby but if the information provided or used is false then the decision so arrived very likely will be catastrophicaly wrong. Transparency can be manipulated as shown by Colin Powell. The Bush administration edited the intel that was brought to the publics attention and in doing so cheated. Nobody has been held to account in USA. Couple of 100,000 Iraqi's are dead and Iraq has turned into terrorist factory but all that does not matter. As long we can have 'transparency'.


That is like saying "I put a bullet in your head. What else wrong did I do"?

Transparant is not necessary clear, the modern political system, nothing is clear, that's why they use the word Transparant.

Another point being, how do you know Iraq is worse off now than before? By saying 100,000 iraqi dead and turn into terrorist factory, is it worse than wwhat it was before? Terrorist were there before US involvement in Iraq, let's not kid ourselves here, It was there long before US have any impact on Iraq, it was there before Iraq and US is actually allies in 1970.

You are blaming something that happens regardless on US invasion in Iraq. Would terrorist not taken over Iraq if US had not invaded? Maybe, and that is the best answer you are going to get, and if you say Saddam is going to prohibit or inhabit the terrorism activities in Iraq, then you need to know this, there are someone (a large bunch of people actually) sees Saddam as a terrorist in the first place, just because one cartel inhabit other cartel in somepart of Mexico does not make it safer, that's the same thing happen in Iraq.

I was in Iraq in 2004, I have friend that is still In Iraq, I have kept contact with many of the people I know back in Iraq, my vet (animal doctor) is mohamad from Iraq, we talk alot about it when my 3 cats need to go get the vaccine done. Before US invasion, there are no personal liberty in Iraq, there are no security in Iraq, Now, at least some part of Iraq we can see people walking around on a sunday market in the afternoon. There are many more people I personally saw, talk to and experienced say Iraq have gone better since US invasion. Of course, if you ask the people in Al Anbar or Mosul, they will give you a different answer, because war is still happening over there. And a War is going to happen with or without US involvement in Iraq during the srping of 2003.

Politics is not clearly black and white as you see, you ask 1000 people, you have 1000 different answer, and in the end, it's a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation. Is invasion in Iraq a big mistake? Maybe. Is the sitaution in Iraq can be dealt more delicately? Maybe, but in the end, is it actually matters? Or even how it happen even matter? Let's for argument sake, said Bush did lie blankly and blatanly to the public, but think about it, did US really need to lie to get involve in Iraq? Don't forget, lying is the part to try and justify the clause in Iraq, and the action is always going to be there, if not by lying, it would be by something else.

And again, as I said, US did found WMD in Iraq in 2008, they are expired but still is WMD. Would I even say US public is being lied to? I don't actually think so.
 
Hafiz Sayeed outside and alive in Pakistan will provide more diplomatic leverage to India than if he is killed.
 
Another point being, how do you know Iraq is worse off now than before?
his is very subjective but forget about what Mohammed says. How about being using some objective barometer. Find out what was the population of the Iraqi Christian community. Pre Iraq war and now and their fate when liberty was delivered to them. Please.
 
his is very subjective but forget about what Mohammed says. How about being using some objective barometer. Find out what was the population of the Iraqi Christian community. Pre Iraq war and now and their fate when liberty was delivered to them. Please.

The question is, you cannot do whatever policy just to please "ONE GROUP" of the people. Again, is Iraq better off or worse off, you ask 1000 different people you will get 1000 answer. If you are simply saying look at "xyz" did in Iraq and forget what "abc" said, then Can I also use the same argument and say, you are wrong, forget what Iraqi Christian community said, let's see how Mohammed from Baghdad said?

EDIT:: Also, you need to know how and why the Iraqi Christian community disappearing in Iraq. Not becuase of the US government or Iraqi Government. It's becuase of the insurgency, they see the Iraqi Christian as collaborator to the infidel, and it was heavily targetted by insurgent
 
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How is Pakistan going to explain this embarrassment to taller than iron mountain brother China? China just last week said no proof and now have to eat their words.
 
Tbh, it's not that far-fetched. Didn't China ask Pakistan to withdraw their forces during the Kargil conflict?
 

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