China J10B Fighter Cobra J-turn performed with WS 10 TVC Engine at Zhuhai airshow 2018

[gambit]

Hi,

And for that---we are all ears---. Please continue---.

What the PDF Chinese aviation 'experts' missed is the lack of information on the range of movement of the engine's thrust redirection.

The F-22's engines' TVC is 20 deg single axis. We have all seen this image...

A major reason why is physical location -- BETWEEN the vertical stabs.

For this Chinese J-10B, the single engine is directly below the single vertical stab, which would affect the TVC's range of up/down movement. The Russian PAK-FA's engine TVC is reportedly in the 15-16 deg range.

What this mean for this J-10B demonstrator is that the canards are the major factor in the jet's maneuverability. The engine's TVC is a contributor but not likely its range of movement is the same as the PAK's. With TVC, this J-10B's flight control laws were definitely rewritten.

Can this new engine be retrofitted into other platforms? There are technical caveats.

1- The jet MUST at least be computer assisted, if not outright computer controlled like the F-16 and later platforms.

2- From condition one, the jet's flight control laws must be rewritten.

3- It maybe that the new TVC engine MUST work with canards. If this is true, this will limit platform retrofit.

Another issue and question is whether the existing J-10B physical design can execute these maneuvers while being fully armed, especially with external fuel tanks. We are talking about centrifugal forces that were never factored in -- in the original airframe design. The flight control laws can be written to compensate but physical limitations will have to explored -- PER PLATFORM. Then comes those custom flight control laws. This will mean yrs of development that most countries that must import their defense will question if they can afford the funds.

So for now, we should view this as more likely a stepping stone for China to enter the TVC domain with this demonstrator.

 

[MastanKhan]

What the PDF Chinese aviation 'experts' missed is the lack of information on the range of movement of the engine's thrust redirection.

The F-22's engines' TVC is 20 deg single axis. We have all seen this image...

A major reason why is physical location -- BETWEEN the vertical stabs.

For this Chinese J-10B, the single engine is directly below the single vertical stab, which would affect the TVC's range of up/down movement. The Russian PAK-FA's engine TVC is reportedly in the 15-16 deg range.

What this mean for this J-10B demonstrator is that the canards are the major factor in the jet's maneuverability. The engine's TVC is a contributor but not likely its range of movement is the same as the PAK's. With TVC, this J-10B's flight control laws were definitely rewritten.

Can this new engine be retrofitted into other platforms? There are technical caveats.

1- The jet MUST at least be computer assisted, if not outright computer controlled like the F-16 and later platforms.

2- From condition one, the jet's flight control laws must be rewritten.

3- It maybe that the new TVC engine MUST work with canards. If this is true, this will limit platform retrofit.

Another issue and question is whether the existing J-10B physical design can execute these maneuvers while being fully armed, especially with external fuel tanks. We are talking about centrifugal forces that were never factored in -- in the original airframe design. The flight control laws can be written to compensate but physical limitations will have to explored -- PER PLATFORM. Then comes those custom flight control laws. This will mean yrs of development that most countries that must import their defense will question if they can afford the funds.

So for now, we should view this as more likely a stepping stone for China to enter the TVC domain with this demonstrator.

Hi,

Thank you for the post---. I think that engine on the J10 would be for show---a test bed for twin engine aircraft---because that is where the function would be effective---.

What the PDF Chinese aviation 'experts' missed is the lack of information on the range of movement of the engine's thrust redirection.

The F-22's engines' TVC is 20 deg single axis. We have all seen this image...

A major reason why is physical location -- BETWEEN the vertical stabs.

For this Chinese J-10B, the single engine is directly below the single vertical stab, which would affect the TVC's range of up/down movement. The Russian PAK-FA's engine TVC is reportedly in the 15-16 deg range.

What this mean for this J-10B demonstrator is that the canards are the major factor in the jet's maneuverability. The engine's TVC is a contributor but not likely its range of movement is the same as the PAK's. With TVC, this J-10B's flight control laws were definitely rewritten.

Can this new engine be retrofitted into other platforms? There are technical caveats.

1- The jet MUST at least be computer assisted, if not outright computer controlled like the F-16 and later platforms.

2- From condition one, the jet's flight control laws must be rewritten.

3- It maybe that the new TVC engine MUST work with canards. If this is true, this will limit platform retrofit.

Another issue and question is whether the existing J-10B physical design can execute these maneuvers while being fully armed, especially with external fuel tanks. We are talking about centrifugal forces that were never factored in -- in the original airframe design. The flight control laws can be written to compensate but physical limitations will have to explored -- PER PLATFORM. Then comes those custom flight control laws. This will mean yrs of development that most countries that must import their defense will question if they can afford the funds.

So for now, we should view this as more likely a stepping stone for China to enter the TVC domain with this demonstrator.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. That is what it appears to be---something that the chinese wanted to show that they have reached a certain plateau---.

Now as for structural engineering---you are correct---the frame of the aircraft would be an upgraded frame to take all those stresses---but is this thrust vectoring engine for the J10 or for the twin engine aircraft---because it does not make too much sense for thrust vectoring to be installed in a single engine aircraft---.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

YES BUT IT SEEMS THAT NO EFFORT IS BEEN MADE TO HIDE TURBINE BLADE AND IT WILL GIVE VERY HIGH RCS.

DSI hides engine blades.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/j-10...-su-57s-s-shaped-intake.586190/#post-10931368

 

[oprih]

Amazing work by our Chinese brothers!

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Thank you for the post---. I think that engine on the J10 would be for show---a test bed for twin engine aircraft---because that is where the function would be effective---.


Hi,

Thank you for your post---. That is what it appears to be---something that the chinese wanted to show that they have reached a certain plateau---.

Now as for structural engineering---you are correct---the frame of the aircraft would be an upgraded frame to take all those stresses---but is this thrust vectoring engine for the J10 or for the twin engine aircraft---because it does not make too much sense for thrust vectoring to be installed in a single engine aircraft---.

Chief designer of J20 had hinted that J20 is now flying with TVC engine for test.

 

[MastanKhan]

Chief designer of J20 had hinted that J20 is now flying with TVC engine for test.

Hi,

Thank you---there is no reason not to believe it---. The J10 performance was of a full production engine---.