China, India scaled 'astronomical' heights when West was in Dark Ages

[KhanBaba2]

So what are you doing in a history thread ? take your own advice and fcuk off to do your deeds.



If not the muslims who destroyed our science and maths, Who else are you talking about ? The british who plagiarized our work and claimed it as their own ?

If you have problems with me on this thread, please take it up with the mods.

Meanwhile can you elaborate how the Muslims destroyed our science and maths.

And what the British plagiarized.

 

[namefield_empty]

most of these Buddhist Viharas where destroyed by Hindu kings like Shashanka.

Blatant lie, Islamic conquests in various parts destroyed Buddhist stupas, viharas, monasteries and sacred texts. Adherents were brutally massacred, that is well documented.

Maratha bandits who used to pillage the villages in western Bengal while raping and killing local people

This though is true.

 

[Species]

Blatant lie, Islamic conquests in various parts destroyed Buddhist stupas, viharas, monasteries and sacred texts. Adherents were brutally massacred, that is well documented.

As I said, contrary to popular Indian believes which seem to have influenced you too.

Muslim rule came in Bengal with Bakhtiar Khalji who invaded the country with only handful of men with no resistance at all, proving that local people were not satisfied with the ruling Hindu Sena Dynasty.

Also, as I said, there are numerous threads on PDF with all the sources refuting the mainstream Indian propaganda on this issue, particularly the alleged destruction of Nalanda Vihara by Bakhtiar Khalji. Let me dig in.

 

[Vikki]

LOL... .. don't take my world for it. Hear it from Non Indians.

"The first nation to have cultivated science is India. Indians have surpassed all other countries in Medical science and Astronomy"- Al Andalusi , Arabic scholar belonging to Islamic "Golden age" (c. 11th century)

Al Andalusi's in his book Ṭabaqāt al-ʼUmam. Chapter 5. clearly states India was the first nation to cultivate science and Indians excelled all other countries in mathematics, astronomy , medicine and science

Andalusi-"India is known for wisdom of its people. It is a rich nation. Even though Indians are dark like Africans. Indians are source of fairness, objectivity and wisdom. Even though Indians are dark like Africans, Allah did not give the low character. He ranked them above whites"

In 637 AD, Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang visited Nalanda university. He saw that it had 10,000 students from all over the world and around 2000 teachers Mahayana, Vedas, Shastras, Sankhya, Medicine, Linguistics, Etymology, Economics, Weaponry and Archery was taught to the students.

I am extremely impressed how you put your arguments with proofs...you take a lot of pain in collecting them and posting it here..thank you on the behalf of all indians here on pdf

 

[Species]

Found them, @Axomiya_lora

Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar Khilji A hero or Villain to Bangladeshis??

Ancient Hindu temple found built on Buddhist shrine in Bangladesh’s Dinajpur

Go through these two threads, there are details on how different Hindu kings destroyed several Buddhist temples/viharas and built Hindu temples on them.

 

[Gadkari]

Lol, typical Indian history revisionism.

Bengal had a far better economy than rest of the subcontinent during Nawabi rule.

It was not the Muslims rulers rather Maratha bandits who used to pillage the villages in western Bengal while raping and killing local people under direct patronisation of Maratha Empire. Marathas are still known as 'Borgi' in Bengali.

This is hilarious.

Bengal was the primary center for slave trade in India. In fact it was the BRITSH who put and end to the slave trade when they took over bengal.

The Augustinian missionary Fray Sebastian Manrique, who was in Bengal in 1629–30 and again in 1640, remarked on the ability of the shiqdar—a Mughal officer responsible for executive matters in the pargana, the smallest territorial unit of imperial administration to collect the revenue demand, by force if necessary, and even to enslave peasants should they default in their payments

https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/perspective/news/slavery-bengal-forgotten-history-1643383

During the first thirty years of Batavia's existence (Indonesia), Indian and Arakanese slaves provided the main labour force . Of the 211 manumitted slaves in Batavia between 1646 and 1649, 126 (59.71%) came from South Asia, including 86 (40.76%) from Bengal.

This is just one example.

Here is what the Bengali's slave looked like. Don't forget to thank your Nawab.

It is well documented that contrary to popular Indian believes, most of these Buddhist Viharas where destroyed by Hindu kings like Shashanka. There are several threads on this issue in PDF.

LOL.... Well documented where ?

Most of these universities were Hindu , not buddhist.

Most of these universities had a mix of Buddhist, Brahmanas and a good number of Jains. Students were also taught Vedas and sciences.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

This is hilarious.

Bengal was the primary center for slave trade in India. In fact it was the BRITSH who put and end to the slave trade when they took over bengal.

The Augustinian missionary Fray Sebastian Manrique, who was in Bengal in 1629–30 and again in 1640, remarked on the ability of the shiqdar—a Mughal officer responsible for executive matters in the pargana, the smallest territorial unit of imperial administration to collect the revenue demand, by force if necessary, and even to enslave peasants should they default in their payments

https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/perspective/news/slavery-bengal-forgotten-history-1643383

During the first thirty years of Batavia's existence (Indonesia), Indian and Arakanese slaves provided the main labour force . Of the 211 manumitted slaves in Batavia between 1646 and 1649, 126 (59.71%) came from South Asia, including 86 (40.76%) from Bengal.

This is just one example.

Here is what the Bengali's slave looked like. Don't forget to thank your Nawab.

LOL.... Well documented where ?

Most of these universities were Hindu , not buddhist.

Most of these universities had a mix of Buddhist, Brahmanas and a good number of Jains. Students were also taught Vedas and sciences.

Brahmins of Aryan heritage enslaved dravidians. Brahmins taught the world slavery along with the number "0".

Brahmins of Aryan heritage enslaved dravidians. Brahmins taught the world slavery along with the number "0".

Can't really blame mughals or British or anyone else for subjugating all of them.... This is why building a tribe on the basis of caste is flawed.

 

[Species]

This is hilarious.

Bengal was the primary center for slave trade in India. In fact it was the BRITSH who put and end to the slave trade when they took over bengal.

The Augustinian missionary Fray Sebastian Manrique, who was in Bengal in 1629–30 and again in 1640, remarked on the ability of the shiqdar—a Mughal officer responsible for executive matters in the pargana, the smallest territorial unit of imperial administration to collect the revenue demand, by force if necessary, and even to enslave peasants should they default in their payments

https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/perspective/news/slavery-bengal-forgotten-history-1643383

During the first thirty years of Batavia's existence (Indonesia), Indian and Arakanese slaves provided the main labour force . Of the 211 manumitted slaves in Batavia between 1646 and 1649, 126 (59.71%) came from South Asia, including 86 (40.76%) from Bengal.

This is just one example.

Here is what the Bengali's slave looked like. Don't forget to thank your Nawab.

Genius, there were cameras in 17th century? Or you used time machine to travel there and take these pictures?

As the caption says, these 'slaves' are Indian migrant labors in South Africa brought by British, most likely from Gujarat or Bihar as most Indians in Africa are from these regions.

Yet, I do agree there were slavery. It was due to the Portuguese pirates in Bay of Bengal who used to kidnap locals and sell them as slaves. The slavery stopped only with Mughal conquest of Chittagong in the late 17th century which was the main base for the Portuguese in this region.

 

[namefield_empty]

Found them, @Axomiya_lora

Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar Khilji A hero or Villain to Bangladeshis??

Ancient Hindu temple found built on Buddhist shrine in Bangladesh’s Dinajpur

Go through these two threads, there are details on how different Hindu kings destroyed several Buddhist temples/viharas and built Hindu temples on them.

I get your point, but many would say that the tales of Pushyamitra Sunga and Shashanka are grossly exaggerated and many new stupas were infact built during the reign of the former. Also, by the time the Palas were in helm in Bengal, Buddhism was already corrupted to an extent incorporating elements of mysticism(tantra, mantra et al) as a result of Brahminical reforms that contributed directly to its demise, atleast that's what we were taught in school. I, too, need to refresh my knowledge.

Decline of Buddhism in India started much earlier but the death knell was sounded by the invading Mohammedans by pillaging their monasteries and killing the monks.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

It leaves your tribe vulnerable to any organised attack from any invader that is socially advanced, let alone technologically. If 90% of your tribe are trained to clean toilets, you have zero chance against mughals, British, Alexander the great, Chinese, in fact anyone who organises their state and state apparatus on the basis of MERIT or even feudalistic title rather than simple birthright due to caste. Had the mughals not come, someone else would have. This pathetic conglomerate of warring Hindu tribes was waiting to be taken over by anyone more socially advanced.

 

[Species]

LOL.... Well documented where ?

Most of these universities were Hindu , not buddhist.

Most of these universities had a mix of Buddhist, Brahmanas and a good number of Jains. Students were also taught Vedas and sciences.

Take a look at the text below,

Buddhism was in sharp decline before the arrival of muslims due to Shivaik hostility. According to the historian S. R. Goyal, the decline of Buddhism in India is the result of the hostility of Brahmins. Ruler Shashanka of Gauda destroyed the Buddhist images and Bodhi tree. Nalanda was destroyed twice before Muslims, the university fell upon hard times when it was overrun by the Huns under Mihirakula during the reign of Skandgupta (455-467 AD). But it was restored by his successors. The university was destroyed again by the Gaudas in the early 7th century but was restored again by king Harshvardhana (606-648 AD).

Hiuen Tsang wrote "Sasanka-raja,being a believer in heresy, slandered the religion of Buddha and through envy destroyed the convents and cut down the Bodhi tree (at Buddha Gaya), digging it up to the very springs of the earth; but yet be did not get to the bottom of the roots. Then he burnt it with fire and sprinkled it with the juice of sugar-cane, desiring to destroy them entirely, and not leave a trace of it behind. Such was Sasanka's hatred towards Buddhism."

In obvious fact, the historical evidence proves that much before invasion of Bakhtiyar Khilji, Nalanda University had already fallen to ruins because of the rivalry of Hinayana (simple Mahayana) and Mahayana influenced with the ideas of Brahminism. Indeed, there was another Mahavihara in Odantapuri (modern Bihar Sharif in Nalanda District) inside the fort of the local king which was partially affected in the course of battle between the forces of Bakhtiyar Khilji and the local king in 1197 or 1198 AD. The chronicle, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri of Minhaj-i –Siraj, which is usually referred to be historical record of the time, apparently refers to this place and does not even mention the name of Nalanda. Presumably, Nalanda was then a desolate place.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/muha...lji-a-hero-or-villain-to-bangladeshis.398117/

@Gadkari

 

[B.K.N]

Feel good article

 

[Species]

I get your point, but many would say that the tales of Pushyamitra Sunga and Shashanka are grossly exaggerated and many new stupas were infact built during the reign of the former. Also, by the time the Palas were in helm in Bengal, Buddhism was already corrupted to an extent incorporating elements of mysticism(tantra, mantra et al) as a result of Brahminical reforms that contributed directly to its demise, atleast that's what we were taught in school. I, too, need to refresh my knowledge.

Decline of Buddhism in India started much earlier but the death knell was sounded by the invading Mohammedans by pillaging their monasteries and killing the monks.

Well, you are giving benefit of doubt by calling Shashanka's criticism exaggerated when there are documented evidence while supporting all the criticism of Bakhtiyar Khalji or Muslims in general, isn't it a bit biased?

We, both you and me, shouldn't really rely on what we were taught at schools on such historical matters for obvious reasons.

 

[Gadkari]

If you have problems with me on this thread, please take it up with the mods.

Meanwhile can you elaborate how the Muslims destroyed our science and maths.

And what the British plagiarized.

I am not interested in recounting how muslims destroyed our schools and universities. Its common knowledge and simple google search will reveal it.

Here is just ONE example of Ancient Indian discovers and British plagarism.

Elliptical orbits & accurate Heliocentric periods - Aryabhata 499 CE

Ellipse Equations - Mahavira 850 CE

Uniform Mean planetary motion & instantaneous velocity - Bhaskara II 1150 CE

Partial heliocentric model - Neelakanta 1501 CE
First unified model for inner & outer planets - Neelakantha
Correct Equation of center & calculation of eccentric orbits - Neelakantha

"The earth is not encircled by the orbits of Mercury & Venus." - Parameshvara 1410 CE

Angular motion of planets - Jyestadeva 1530 CE

"The motion of planets varies each second" - Sankara Varier~1530 CE

Here is a A comparison of sidereal periods obtained by Aryabhata and Neelakantha with modern values- A relentless thousand year effort without any fabrication or historical inconsistency.

Here is the West waking up to Plagiarism from Hindus,

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/23/...pler-he-fabricated-his-data-scholar-says.html

Kepler discerned the elegant law, but it is now known that he didn't make the observations of orbital periods crucial for his theorems. He did not acknowledge sources-Arab or Kerala manuscripts the Jesuits brought for him. He was, ultimately, a plagiarist.

In 1581 Matteo Ricci wrote to Jesuit Petri Maffei requiring assistance of an “intelligent Brahmin” to understand local time keeping(jyotisa) (Reproduced in Documenta Indica XII 472-477) - Just seven years later in 1588 Tycho Brahe published the EXACT same model of Neelakantha!

After his master Tycho died in 1601, Kepler took/appropriated Tycho's data and worked with it for years. - There is a letter from Johann Schreck in 1618, of astronomical observations intended for the benefit of Kepler.

In 1626 Kepler wrote to Jesuit mathematician Paul Guldin EXPLICITLY requesting astronomical observations from India. “If I could only obtain soon the observations on the eclipse from India or from any other place…” C. Baumgardt, Kepler: Life and Letters, Philosophical Library


Look at the smooth series of events/letters above! One leading to another. Tycho, Jesuits & Kerala astronomers using the SAME planetary model. You think this is a "coincidence" ? Connecting these 3 dots is simple common sense, not doing so is the height of double standards.

Jesuits have already accepted the Tychonic/Neelakantha model.

Jesuit astronomers in China used it , Prominent jesuits supported it

Christopher Clavius, Grienberger, Scheiner, Maelcote etc EVEN after Kepler, Jesuits CONTINUED to staunchly follow it for more than a century.

So what about the eclipse & orbital observations? "Calculated positions are found to deviate from the observed. The shastras declare the observed to be true. Hence the twice born adept at astronomy must strive to obtain positions by observation" -Parameshvara, Drgganita 1.2-4

The entire observation and documentation was done by Parameshvara, who was the teacher of Nilakantha.

"Since Saka 1315(AD 1393) I have observed a number of eclipses; all these occured at times prior to calculated ones. This necessitated corrections in the computational process" -Paramesvara(Siddhantadipika)

"The planets have been observed by me for fifty five years and they differ from positions derived from Parahita ganitam" - Nilakantha quotes his teacher Paramesvara

"Paramesvara studied under Madhava, Rudra and Narayana. He understood the factors causing difference between calculated & observed positions. After verifying the work of earlier teachers though observations of eclipses & planetary conjunctions, he composed Drgganita" -Neelakantha

Nilakantha's model, now known as 'Tychonic model'. It was literally ONE step away from Truth. The Aryabhata school had ALL pieces of the puzzle-Eccentric orbits, accurate periods, theory of rotation, voluminous observatory data etc. But the very LAST step was made by plagiarists.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Take a look at the text below,

Buddhism was in sharp decline before the arrival of muslims due to Shivaik hostility. According to the historian S. R. Goyal, the decline of Buddhism in India is the result of the hostility of Brahmins. Ruler Shashanka of Gauda destroyed the Buddhist images and Bodhi tree. Nalanda was destroyed twice before Muslims, the university fell upon hard times when it was overrun by the Huns under Mihirakula during the reign of Skandgupta (455-467 AD). But it was restored by his successors. The university was destroyed again by the Gaudas in the early 7th century but was restored again by king Harshvardhana (606-648 AD).

Hiuen Tsang wrote "Sasanka-raja,being a believer in heresy, slandered the religion of Buddha and through envy destroyed the convents and cut down the Bodhi tree (at Buddha Gaya), digging it up to the very springs of the earth; but yet be did not get to the bottom of the roots. Then he burnt it with fire and sprinkled it with the juice of sugar-cane, desiring to destroy them entirely, and not leave a trace of it behind. Such was Sasanka's hatred towards Buddhism."

In obvious fact, the historical evidence proves that much before invasion of Bakhtiyar Khilji, Nalanda University had already fallen to ruins because of the rivalry of Hinayana (simple Mahayana) and Mahayana influenced with the ideas of Brahminism. Indeed, there was another Mahavihara in Odantapuri (modern Bihar Sharif in Nalanda District) inside the fort of the local king which was partially affected in the course of battle between the forces of Bakhtiyar Khilji and the local king in 1197 or 1198 AD. The chronicle, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri of Minhaj-i –Siraj, which is usually referred to be historical record of the time, apparently refers to this place and does not even mention the name of Nalanda. Presumably, Nalanda was then a desolate place.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/muha...lji-a-hero-or-villain-to-bangladeshis.398117/

@Gadkari

Good job debunking. Bhakts claim ancient time traveling technology when it suits them but deny any pre-Islamic barbarity amongst their own. Typical blinkered revisionism to suit a saffron agenda.