China Cuts Off SiaChen Supply Line : Sabir Shakir

[blueazure]

Repeating same thing few more times does not add anything. I keep asking how the supply from Leh to Siachen is carried!! Could you please tell us that!!

i think @pakdefender has adequately answered your question above

siachin glaciar is actually a range of heights and peaks occupied/contested both sides . LEH can be equated to our skardu town from where supplies are sent to their side of basecamp from where onwards , portars and mules etc are used to haul supplies manually to the OPs at the front line

YOU cannot build a road to every OP or send a heli to every position. its all done manually via porters and mules . no military in the world can heli /air lift on a permanent basis and maintain a force .

on our side, it takes around 6 hrs to walk /trek to the last OP in clear weather from base. i hear its more in indian side side.

LEH to indian side base camp has a clear road and is hardly threatened by PLA

DBO has nothing to do with siachin

I don't know what you are looking and how you looking. From Leh to DBO is the new road watched by China now.
There was never had been a road from Kargil to Siachen. Indians had been using air power from DBO.

so indians are sending air supplies from srinagar air station to DBO and then drive to Siachin base camp via leh .

very convenient i must say !

may i know why would they do that please ?

 

[I S I]

Since when Sabir Shakir become defense analyst and gain such credibility that he is being discussed in PDF?

Everyone is an Anal-yst these days.

 

[pakdefender]

Well you are pointing to the lower steppe of the Glacier where it meets the River Nubra. But the deployments facing Pakistani troops goes right up to the heights and to the triangle of border of Pakistan, China and India.
Thanks to the sleeping prowess of Pakistani Generals, India was allowed to sneak in and capture the area, which wasn't militarised before.

The two roads locations on the map

View attachment 645426

And Location of Siachen

View attachment 645427

The Karakorum Pass can be seen just near the norther tip of Siachen Glacier area. Indians have build this road to DBO because it goes further north then the road you have mentioned. And with the added advantage of an Airstrip , it becomes more strategically important.
The Indians have to airlift the supplies from the road you have mentioned. From River basin to the top of the Glacier is steep climb.

The Karakorum pass is not actually part of the Siachen Galcier , the triangle in the above map used to indicate whole region as "Siachen Glacier" is wrong.

A glacier is "a river of ice" , it does flow but flows at a low rate and no one in their right mind will build anything on the glacier itself or sit on it for that matter. Its the surrounding peaks and ridges where posts are setup.

The red lines are what the glacier itself is and as I said that no one in their right mind will build a post on top of moving blocks of ice

 

[Genghis khan1]

Siachen glacier itself is bit further to the north west compared to where the Indians got a thrashing from China
The red zone is where China as set up camp and have kicked out the Indians

The orange line encompasses the Siachen glacier which is currently held by India and Saltoro ridge line surrounding the galcier is where india has close to 300 posts.

View attachment 645340

A historical fact that India was able to make its way into Siachen earlier than Pakistan since the the London based supplier of mountain gear with whom Pakistan was negotiating to purchase the gear to move into Siachen informed india earlier of Pakistan's plan to move in and as a result india got a heads up and they moved in earlier and occupied the high ground.

That is all water under the bridge now and Siachen remains an unfinished war

Pakistan must revisit the Siachen status quo in light of the the new situation arising in Galwan valley

I think PA do light them up time to time with indirect fire, to make things even miserable for Indian Troops. I would get those GPS guided rounds with 50km range and start lighting Indian posts on the peaks regularly, until they cut their loses and go back down.

India: China deployed army in 'large numbers' at disputed border
India acknowledges for the first time it has matched China in massing troops at their contested Himalayan border.

13 hours ago

Indian soldiers walk at the foothills of a mountain range near Leh, the main city in the Ladakh region [Tauseef Mustafa/AFP]
MORE ON ASIA

• Indians worried as Trump visa order separates them from families2 days ago
• Modi to meet opposition as India seeks to ease China tensionslast week
• Indian forces kill eight rebels in Kashmir gunfightslast week
• Indian army says 'no soldier in Chinese custody': Live updateslast week

China has deployed large numbers of troops and weapons along a disputed Himalayan border in violation of bilateral agreements, India's foreign ministry has said, accusing Beijing of escalating tensions and triggering a deadly clash last week.

"At the heart of the matter is that since early May, the Chinese side had been amassing a large contingent of troops and armaments along the LAC," foreign ministry spokesman Anurag Srivastava said in a briefing in New Delhi on Thursday, referring to the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the de facto border between the Asian nuclear powers.

Srivastava said "this is not in accordance with the provisions of our various bilateral agreements," referring to treaties that include a 1993 one that dictates that both sides will maintain limited border deployments.

India had "to undertake counter deployments" because of the Chinese buildup, he said as New Delhi acknowledged for the first time it has matched Beijing in massing troops at their contested Himalayan border.

China has blamed India for the clash - the deadliest between the two nuclear-armed neighbours for at least five decades - and said Indian troops attacked Chinese officers and soldiers.

Responding to the heightened Chinese presence last month, India also deployed a large number of troops along the LAC, Srivastava said, leading to face-offs in the Ladakh region of the western Himalayas.


On June 15, Indian and Chinese troops brawled for several hours in the Galwan Valley, using stones and sticks with nails embedded in them to beat each other, killing 20 Indian soldiers and injuring at least 76 more. China has not disclosed how many casualties its troops suffered.

The neighbours have blamed each other for the high-altitude battle. After senior military commanders held parleys this week, both sides have since agreed to disengage their troops on the disputed border.

But in satellite images reviewed by Reuters news agency, China appears to have added new structures near the site of the Galwan Valley clash that India says is on its side of the LAC. These include camouflaged tents or covered structures and a potential new camp under construction with walls or barricades.

"Peace and tranquility in the border areas is the basis of our bilateral relationship," said Srivastava, demanding that China follow up on its pledge to cool tensions. "A continuation of the current situation would only vitiate the atmosphere."

SOURCE: NEWS AGENCIES

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...-numbers-disputed-border-200626031842005.html

Bajo yar koi attank wadi to start the show . Kia gulli danda khal rahy hain yae dono.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

factually its not true, Chines cud do that but they have only observing their are 2 roads goes to siachin one is visual and other one is behind the mountains. unless Kargil happen again siachin is out of question or india so as usual stupid move to attack Pakistan then they are in deep trouble.
how come no indian did surgical strike? , cuz they never have and cudnt do it.

 

[crankthatskunk]

The Karakorum pass is not actually part of the Siachen Galcier , the triangle in the above map used to indicate whole region as "Siachen Glacier" is wrong.

A glacier is "a river of ice" , it does flow but flows at a low rate and no one in their right mind will build anything on the glacier itself or sit on it for that matter. Its the surrounding peaks and ridges where posts are setup.

The red lines are what the glacier itself is and as I said that no one in their right mind will build a post on top of moving blocks of ice
View attachment 645445

With due respect, I think I know what Glacier means. Also when we talk about Siachen in Pakistan and Indian scenario, we always refer to the geographical area surrounding Siachen, not the glacier by itself.

As you may have notice, the map I have posted, clearly shows the Karakorum Pass just outside of the Siachen Area.

I have also stated that the Indian base camps shown by another users are on the lower part of the area on the river bed, while according to his and your own submissions, the Indians are occupying the higher peaks around the Glacier. Thus, the supplies cannot be maintained using the road mentioned.

I am only making this point.

I am sure as a "PDF Think Tank" you know very well, Chinese Military planners are not idiots that they are making forward moves to very strategic points as close to LAC as possible. To punish Indians if they are foolish enough to threaten CPEC.
The Chinese started to make their moves after statement by Indian Interior Minister Amit Shah.

They are countering Indians announcement to declare Ladakh as a separate unit govern from the centre.

Pakistani army on the other hand would sit idle by, get pressurised by the USA and do nothing, as usual.

Siachen wasn't occupied by the Indians in one day. Pakistani army was sleeping.

Musharaf then tried to make the mends by moving on Kargil, caught Indians napping. But Indians at least fought, albeit the traitor Nawaz wasn't willing to fight the Indians. As a consequence Pakistan lost men and have to vacate most of the area in Kargil. I know they still occupy some of the strategic high points in the area.

 

[crankthatskunk]

i think @pakdefender has adequately answered your question above

siachin glaciar is actually a range of heights and peaks occupied/contested both sides . LEH can be equated to our skardu town from where supplies are sent to their side of basecamp from where onwards , portars and mules etc are used to haul supplies manually to the OPs at the front line

YOU cannot build a road to every OP or send a heli to every position. its all done manually via porters and mules . no military in the world can heli /air lift on a permanent basis and maintain a force .

on our side, it takes around 6 hrs to walk /trek to the last OP in clear weather from base. i hear its more in indian side side.

LEH to indian side base camp has a clear road and is hardly threatened by PLA

DBO has nothing to do with siachin





so indians are sending air supplies from srinagar air station to DBO and then drive to Siachin base camp via leh .

very convenient i must say !

may i know why would they do that please ?

I think it is easier to quote from the horse's mouth. An Indian source Zee.


"Daulat Beg Oldie

Located just south of the Karakoram Pass, the Daulat Beg Oldie airstrip holds immense strategic importance for India in the crucial axis in central Asia. Located at an altitude of at 16614 feet (5065 meters), DBO is an important Army forward area post which was built during the Indo-China conflict in 1962. It was abandoned after an earthquake in 1968 only to be revived in 2008 with the landing of the An-32.

India holds the airstrip dear as it can use the airstrip for fast deployment of men and material to the region and can potentially block the Karakoram highway between China and Pakistan.

Given reports that China has taken over the Gilgit-Baltistan area on lease from Pakistan for 50 years, Daulat Beg Oldie presents a real challenge to Chinese plans. China is also working on a plan to link the Karakoram highway to the Gwadar port in Pakistan – given it a strategic exit to Arabian Sea.

Also, the airstrip is important to help India safeguard the Siachen Glacier as essential supplies can be airlifted in times of emergency or when roads get blocked due to inclement weather.

However, the fact remains that China has a sophisticated military infrastructure in Tibet that includes five fully operational air bases and an extensive rail network as against the poor state of affairs on the Indian side."


Chinese military planners are not stupid my friend. But I think PDF think tanks are superior, way superior. I concur.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Sabir says that Indian media is now getting freedom to speak on issue of Chinese incursion.

Sabir says that India today has reported that Chinese have intruded in to Dault Baig Oldie.
China is encroaching gradually in different border areas.

He also says that Siachen supply line is also cut by China.

Sabir Shakir should do sabr shukr and keep making more subscribers.

India has no problem if Pakistan or China block off routes to siachen..India has like in past during Kargil tested its air cargo for Siachin and it worked well for them...sorry had to become the devils advocate here..

however.... China and Pakistan would be able to scan the indian sorties and up their EW game if they block the land route so there is definitely a benefit to it.. the air vehicles can be brought down by EW , with no trace left behind eventually doing what blocking supply route would do but it requires work..

 

[arjunk]

Given reports that China has taken over the Gilgit-Baltistan area on lease from Pakistan for 50 years

I want some of what they're smoking

 

[pakdefender]

Also, the airstrip is important to help India safeguard the Siachen Glacier as essential supplies can be airlifted in times of emergency or when roads get blocked due to inclement weather.

Airlift is always the backup and not the main route , main routes are usually over ground as they are less costly

For Siachen , india's main route is via Leh going up to the base of the galcier where they have their base camps , the DBO base that india is building is primarily Aksai Chin centeric, as secondary use yes it could be used for airlifting supplies to Siachen area but for only short duration
airlifting supplies for a long period of time is not feasible , even US/NATO couldn't do that for a long period of time with the northern distribution network.

With DBO , india was inching closer to Aksai Chin border and China did a qucik counter move below in Galwan Valley and literally put a cork up the back side of india's DBO base.

Lets see how this plays out , it might open up a window of opportunity for Pakistan to dislodge india from the ridges around siachen glacier or if Pakistan doesn't limit itself , then doing a take down of india's base camps at the base of the glacier might become possible if situation heats up between China and India

 

[crankthatskunk]

Airlift is always the backup and not the main route , main routes are usually over ground as they are less costly

For Siachen , india's main route is via Leh going up to the base of the galcier where they have their base camps , the DBO base that india is building is primarily Aksai Chin centeric, as secondary use yes it could be used for airlifting supplies to Siachen area but for only short duration
airlifting supplies for a long period of time is not feasible , even US/NATO couldn't do that for a long period of time with the northern distribution network.

With DBO , india was inching closer to Aksai Chin border and China did a qucik counter move below in Galwan Valley and literally put a cork up the back side of india's DBO base.

Lets see how this plays out , it might open up a window of opportunity for Pakistan to dislodge india from the ridges around siachen glacier or if Pakistan doesn't limit itself , then doing a take down of india's base camps at the base of the glacier might become possible if situation heats up between China and India

What I had been asking from the start!!

Chinese are doing their bidding. To restrict Indians infrastructure building projects and build up their own capabilities that in case of spike in hostilities, they can hit Indians hard. They are giving us opportunities to carry out similar activities and get ready to free Siachen from India.

What I said that Indian fought back to free Kargil (not all the heights) what Pakistan has done in last 20+ years about Siachen!

To back up Pakistani army blindly is not a good reason to get in to protracted arguments.
Indians are trying to change the dynamics and demography in IoK. The time of action is now.

Prolong silence from Pakistan would result Indian gulping the Kashmir while PA keep us waiting, giving different reasons.

When you have no stomach to fight, you can produce million excuses.
The thing is that , they should stop the mantra "Kashmir is our jugular vein". If someone cuts your jugular vein, you are dead.

I want some of what they're smoking

Bro, that is there point of view/propaganda.
We shouldn't worry about their propaganda, we should only concentrate on their designs and plans.

 

[pakdefender]

What I had been asking from the start!!

Chinese are doing their bidding. To restrict Indians infrastructure building projects and build up their own capabilities that in case of spike in hostilities, they can hit Indians hard. They are giving us opportunities to carry out similar activities and get ready to free Siachen from India.

What I said that Indian fought back to free Kargil (not all the heights) what Pakistan has done in last 20+ years about Siachen!

To back up Pakistani army blindly is not a good reason to get in to protracted arguments.
Indians are trying to change the dynamics and demography in IoK. The time of action is now.

Prolong silence from Pakistan would result Indian gulping the Kashmir while PA keep us waiting, giving different reasons.

When you have no stomach to fight, you can produce million excuses.
The thing is that , they should stop the mantra "Kashmir is our jugular vein". If someone cuts your jugular vein, you are dead.



Bro, that is there point of view/propaganda.
We shouldn't worry about their propaganda, we should only concentrate on their designs and plans.

India trying to change the demographics of occupied Kashmir is unrelated to Siachen , there is virtually no body who lives in these snow covered peaks except the Indian and Pakistani military people.

And about what has Pakistan done in Siachen , well the whole of Kashmir is an on going issue , it is not resolved and Siachen is part of it.

Specially in 1989 , Pakistan Army successfully captured the Chumik Peak from which the indian base camp is about 16 kilometres , within artillery range
https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/chumik-operation.php

 

[crankthatskunk]

India trying to change the demographics of occupied Kashmir is unrelated to Siachen , there is virtually no body who lives in these snow covered peaks except the Indian and Pakistani military people.

And about what has Pakistan done in Siachen , well the whole of Kashmir is an on going issue , it is not resolved and Siachen is part of it.

Specially in 1989 , Pakistan Army successfully captured the Chumik Peak from which the indian base camp is about 16 kilometres , within artillery range
https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/chumik-operation.php


View attachment 645485

When war starts, if it is Ladkh, or in the valley, Indians are going to say Siachen is not part of the war!!

This morning I was listening to Dhanoa's interview to an Indian channel after his retirement. He said on 26th the Indians pretended that they are going to attack Pakistan near Bhawalpur. PAF got distracted and try to scramble their jets in that sector. IAF got opening to attack from AJK and caught PAF unaware.

I am saddened.

 

[pakdefender]

When war starts, if it is Ladkh, or in the valley, Indians are going to say Siachen is not part of the war!!
I am saddened.

Here is something to cheer you up

India spends roughly 5 million USD per week in Siachen in current situation as things stand with current positions , if another front opens up its expenditure will double and that wont be easy to sustain for india

 

[crankthatskunk]

Here is something to cheer you up

India spends roughly 5 million USD per week in Siachen in current situation as things stand with current positions , if another front opens up its expenditure will double and that wont be easy to sustain for india

I am sure, Indian spent far more to keep the IoK under its military occupation.

I give you an idea. Let Indian capture whole of Pakistan. Imagine how much Indian would spent then to keep 220 millions Pakistanis under control.