China and India have expressed interest to purchase T-14 Armata new Russian-made MBT.

[Agent Smith]

This is so funny.

Both countries expressing interest in buying the same tank which they MIGHT(hopefully never) use against one other. So much Chutiyapa

This is why defence industry should be almost totally indigenous. Russia sells equipment to both India and China. US sells equipment to both India and Pakistan. They earn we lose. I sincerely hope this is the last decade when India will be importing any sort of these big products. Small arms, drones etc are ok for import since they don't cost too much and the other country is going to get them one way or another anyway. Ships, submarines, aircraft etc should not be imported. There is no bigger chutyapa than a country spending so much money on a product which will be sold to it's rivals. India has almost totally indigenized ship building and submarine building. Land based arms should be the next step. I don't care if they take another 2 years improving indigenous howitzers, artillery guns, Arjun tank etc, but please stop these useless imports.

Though that being said, aircraft industry in India has reached nowhere near the capability of building heavy combat helicopter like Apache, heavy lift aircraft like C130 , stuff like P8 poseidons etc, so there is no choice but to import them for the foreseeable future.

thats correct, but while India may use them against pakistan, china may use them against its own people at Tienanmen square

 

[C130]

Why so?

For instance, this is ladakh. Sure it contains a lot of mountains, but there are flat passes between the mountains where tanks can travel

Same for Arunachal. The tibetan plateau is fairly flat. So while India might not be able to effectively use tanks due to it's side being rugged, China definitely can for a short intrusion into India as a means of providing firepower to infantry. This is Tawang. I see no reason why a tank can't be used here.

that kinda terrain is a death trap for tanks and AFVs.


take for instance SPIKE. you could be behind one those hills and mountains and still hit them.

 

[OrionHunter]

Good! But how about:

Accuracy?
Maintainability?
Serviceability?
Spares?
TOT?
Cost?
Life cycle of main gun (seeing that it also fires missiles?)
Availability of ammo?
And so on........

Why so?

For instance, this is ladakh. Sure it contains a lot of mountains, but there are flat passes between the mountains where tanks can travel

Same for Arunachal. The tibetan plateau is fairly flat. So while India might not be able to effectively use tanks due to it's side being rugged, China definitely can for a short intrusion into India as a means of providing firepower to infantry. This is Tawang. I see no reason why a tank can't be used here.

It's not about 'traveling' as you say! Tanks operate by fire and manoeuvre. A squadron would need approx 25 -30 sq km for this. Where's the space?

However they could be deployed as static 'pill boxes' but that is not what tanks are meant for!

 

[kaonalpha]

Egypt is interested they'll be taking trials at RAE 2015. Hope Pakistan gets invited this year

 

[Akasa]

why does China continue buy weapons from Russia?

Su-35 now they want T-14??? S-400??


are they seriously not spying and stealing the redesigns from Russia??

The Su-35 deal was falsely reported and ended up being denied by the governments of both nations, as I recall. There is nothing authoritative regarding the S-400 thus far.

As for the T-14, I can't imagine it would be beyond the capacity of Norinco to produce an unmanned turret should the need arise.

 

[Penguin]

Uralvagonzavod, a Russian machine building company in Nizhny Tagil, recently rejected the idea of selling the Armata heavy vehicle platform to China despite the nation demonstrating great interest in the tank platform according to the Vzglyad, a Moscow-based newspaper, on Jan. 20.

Russian tank maker doesn't want Armata sold to Beijing｜WantChinaTimes.com

The high-end VT-4 tank is promoted by Norinco, its Chinese manufacturer, as an alternative to Russia's advanced T-14 Armata. Norinoco said its tank is better than the T-14 in terms of automation, mobility, fire-control systems and cost. Hu Yongye / for China Daily
China is Russia's main competitor in developing countries seeking to buy tanks, and the tight market is becoming even more competitive for tank exporters. A report last year by the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade in Moscow indicated that the global demand for new tanks will sharply decline from 2014 to 2017 compared with the previous four-year period, which is expected to further fuel the already fierce competition.
The T-90S, a third-generation Russian main battle tank, is just able to compete with the VT-1, while its upgraded version, the T-90AM, has no substantial improvements, according to Norinco. The VT-4's wide recognition on the international tank market is forcing Russia to put its cutting-edge T-14 on the market to change the situation, the company said.
Russia debuted the T-14 Armata on May 9 during a grand parade to celebrate the 70th anniversary of victory in World War II. Russian media noted that the weapon was the first fourth-generation tank to enter service globally, saying it would be one of the most powerful tanks in the future battlefield.
However, the assertion is being challenged by Norinco, which claims the Russian tank is weaker than the Chinese VT-4 in terms of automation, mobility, fire-control systems and cost competitiveness.
"The T-14's transmission is not well-developed, as we saw through a malfunction taking place during a rehearsal before the May 9 parade. By comparison, the VT-4 has never encountered such problems so far," Norinco said in the WeChat article. "Our tanks also have world-class fire-control systems, which the Russians are still trying to catch up with."
It continued: "Another important issue is the price - the T-14 is reported to have a price as high as that of the United States' M1A2 Abrams. ... Why don't buyers consider Chinese tanks that have well-developed technologies and equipment as well as much-lower prices?"

Tank maker seeks to increase exports

So much for Armata export to China....

 

[kaonalpha]

Russian tank maker doesn't want Armata sold to Beijing｜WantChinaTimes.com


Tank maker seeks to increase exports

So much for Armata export to China....

Want China Times Seriously ?

 

[Penguin]

Want China Times Seriously ?

Want China Times Seriously ?

The point of course is that China has not imported MBTs from Russia since the T-54/55: it is making its own.

Read closely....

"However, the assertion is being challenged by Norinco, which claims the Russian tank is weaker than the Chinese VT-4 in terms of automation, mobility, fire-control systems and cost competitiveness."
Tank maker seeks to increase exports on land armaments|Society|chinadaily.com.cn

Norinco is the sole tank maker in China.

 

[kaonalpha]

Yes but then again we will find out more about the T14 in September during the Russian Arms Expo. China is good but better than T14, that time will tell. Or maybe when we start producing the mbt 3000 ourselves and battle test it.

The point of course is that China has not imported MBTs from Russia since the T-54/55: it is making its own.

Read closely....

"However, the assertion is being challenged by Norinco, which claims the Russian tank is weaker than the Chinese VT-4 in terms of automation, mobility, fire-control systems and cost competitiveness."
Tank maker seeks to increase exports on land armaments|Society|chinadaily.com.cn

Norinco is the sole tank maker in China.

 

[Penguin]

Russia says that Russia’s foreign partners, including China and India, have expressed interest in purchasing new military equipment presented at the May 9 Victory Day parade in Moscow. The Russian Defense Ministry unveiled its new T-14 Armata main battle tank at the Victory Day military parade held in Moscow on May 9 in celebration of WWII victory over Nazi Germany.

"To a larger extent it is our traditional partners: India, China and South-East Asia," Kozhin said, adding, however, that although "interest [in the new technology] has been expressed," foreign buyers are "satisfied" with the current contracts on the delivery of Russian equipment.

The article states merely that traditional partners were interested in 'new equipment presented'. A lot of new equipment was presented, including - besides T-14 Armata - wheeled AFVs, tracked ICVs, SP artillery etc.. There is no explicit mention of any specific interest in the T-14 Armata. And "foreign buyers are 'satisfied' with the current contracts for the delivery of Russian equipment.

I don't know how one can conclude from that information that India and China 'want to', 'are considering' or are even 'interested in' purchase of T-14 Armata. It simply doesn't say so.

Add to that the remarks from the Russian manufacturer of Armata on the sale of that piece of kit to China and the fact that both China and India have invested heavily in domestic design and production of MBT's.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes but then again we will find out more about the T14 in September during the Russian Arms Expo. China is good but better than T14, that time will tell. Or maybe when we start producing the mbt 3000 ourselves and battle test it.

To answer Armata if Indians decide to buy it I think Altay will be more than enough but let see if Indians go for Armata or not ?