China All Su-35 news

[Pomegranate]

Yes, it will. It will position under Gawadar port defence. It might be flying PLAAF ensign but operate by Pakistan personnel.

 

[Max Pain]

last time I read such a news I got surprised cuz for a country like China, just 24 jets dont make any sense while Pakistan's Naval Arm was looking for exactly 2 squadrons or in other words 24 jets,
I wonder where these jets will eventually end up.

 

[Beast]

You can laugh whatever you want. Come back here in another 2 years time in this thread and you can stop laughing.

 

[Tipu7]

only thing that favors your claim is ''24'' Su35. As if China ever needed them then it must have followed atleast 72 of them.
All rest if True will remain classified. Su35 even if Stationed at Gwadar then we might consider authenticity of your claim....... untill then all such stuff is just a dream like analysis or a blind shot........... lets wait for better

You can laugh whatever you want. Come back here in another 2 years time in this thread and you can stop laughing

 

[Manidabest]

Yes, it will. It will position under Gawadar port defence. It might be flying PLAAF ensign but operate by Pakistan personnel.

i hope we get them too or J11D from Chinese it will give a significant boost to our air defenses but numbers too matter....

 

[Deino]

@ Beast at his best ! ... Sorry my friend, but if You want to be taken seriously and not stand as an ignorant Fan-boy only, You should change Your way of thinking ... and posting. That's simply the JOKE of the day, maybe even month after all Your other funny-claims ...

Yes, it will. It will position under Gawadar port defence. It might be flying PLAAF ensign but operate by Pakistan personnel.

That is nonsense. These SU-35 is not for PLAAF service. SU-27SK phased out is well taken care by J-11B and J-11BS.

There is simply NO way - both politically and in terms of a military sense - that they will be for the PAF. If Russia wants to deliver them to Pakistan it could easily do it right away and not via a secret, mysterious and surely forbidden break of the contract via PLAAF-aquired aircraft. Not even in PLAAF-colours but based in Pakistan.


CHina would never do such a move simply in order not to destroy all Sino-Russian relations ... By the way, either proof Your claims or forget it !

Please understand, there will not be official news or even info for such undertable deal. Thinking you could get an official link or source for such info is like asking Somalia to land a man on moon.


Its all thru insider info and link from forum. From what I understand , intergrating Chinese subsystem into Su-35 is on the table but whether it will go ahead, I am not sure.

You are funny ! You always simply take the one argument that fits Your opinion best:


- several J-10B with yellow serials = Beast: "they are not operational, since the PLAAF did not report so and even more they did not take part on the golden Hemet exercise !" ... "They will be stored until the WS-10 is ready!" ... even if reports are known about 3 fully equipped regiments !?

- Y-20 no. 06 spotted = Beast: "they are already operational and will be used in the this year's Sino-Russian exercise !" ... with just 6 build !?

- J-20 engines = Beast: "these are WS-10G or even WS-15 !" ... with no reports on even a flight test in another type since years !?

- Z-10 engines = Beast: "these are new much more powerful engines in each and every new Z-10" ... despite the fact, that the WZ-16 is simply not ready !?


Again, in case of the Su-35 it is clear that the PLAF will never report such things, but You trust a mysterious rumor from an internet forum ?!, and in case of the J-10B You demand an official report as a source ?!


That simply does not fit ...


Anyway, I'm sure I immediately get my bashing again as a stupid foreigner, who has ZERO understanding in the Chinese capabilities nor their understandings ... and You are correct !


Yes for sure ..

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Deino

Apparently Flight Test and Training Centre (FTTC) is using Su-30MKK in one of the "adversary" regiments. Would this small batch (two dozens only) of Su-35 be used partially or entirely by HTTC?

 

[Beast]

@ Beast at his best ! ... Sorry my friend, but if You want to be taken seriously and not stand as an ignorant Fan-boy only, You should change Your way of thinking ... and posting. That's simply the JOKE of the day, maybe even month after all Your other funny-claims ...





There is simply NO way - both politically and in terms of a military sense - that they will be for the PAF. If Russia wants to deliver them to Pakistan it could easily do it right away and not via a secret, mysterious and surely forbidden break of the contract via PLAAF-aquired aircraft. Not even in PLAAF-colours but based in Pakistan.


CHina would never do such a move simply in order not to destroy all Sino-Russian relations ... By the way, either proof Your claims or forget it !







You are funny ! You always simply take the one argument that fits Your opinion best:


- several J-10B with yellow serials = Beast: "they are not operational, since the PLAAF did not report so and even more they did not take part on the golden Hemet exercise !" ... "They will be stored until the WS-10 is ready!" ... even if reports are known about 3 fully equipped regiments !?

- Y-20 no. 06 spotted = Beast: "they are already operational and will be used in the this year's Sino-Russian exercise !" ... with just 6 build !?

- J-20 engines = Beast: "these are WS-10G or even WS-15 !" ... with no reports on even a flight test in another type since years !?

- Z-10 engines = Beast: "these are new much more powerful engines in each and every new Z-10" ... despite the fact, that the WZ-16 is simply not ready !?


Again, in case of the Su-35 it is clear that the PLAF will never report such things, but You trust a mysterious rumor from an internet forum ?!, and in case of the J-10B You demand an official report as a source ?!


That simply does not fit ...


Anyway, I'm sure I immediately get my bashing again as a stupid foreigner, who has ZERO understanding in the Chinese capabilities nor their understandings ... and You are correct !


Yes for sure ..

Deino, you are a very tactical guy but you lack the political wisdom for discussion.

Su-35 for PAF thru China is a deal with blessing from Sino-Russia. China has verbal agree not to sell any of Russia lineage Su-27 aircraft like J-11B or J-16.

Russia still technically do not want to anger India with a major weapon sales to Pakistan. Transport helicopter Mi-17,obsolete attack gunship like Mi-35 and small weapons are technically not consider a major weapon to PA. But a most advance fighter in Russia service like Su-35 sold to Pakistan directly will cause a stir between India and Russia.

Russia needs hardcash and want China act as middleman for this Su-35 deal for PAF. Same as how RD-93 engine evolved. End of the day, Russia will shoved all problem to China which India cant do anything to her.

 

[Deino]

To admit even I for myself was long more than sceptical in regard to this deal, it is now a fact and the PLAAF will surely have its reasons even if we - or not all of us - undestand or like this.

Anyway, You are correct, the FTTC uses the MKK within the 172. Brigade as a "Blue Force" regiment. IMO this unit is the most likely unit to receive them in order to explore its capabilities and develop tactics for the own use of TVC.

Deino

Deino, you are a very tactical guy but you lack the political wisdom for discussion.

Su-35 for PAF thru China is a deal with blessing from Sino-Russia. China has verbal agree not to sell any of Russia lineage Su-27 aircraft like J-11B or J-16.

Russia still technically do not want to anger India with a major weapon sales to Pakistan. Transport helicopter Mi-17,obsolete attack gunship like Mi-35 and small weapons are technically not consider a major weapon to PA. But a most advance fighter in Russia service like Su-35 sold to Pakistan directly will cause a stir between India and Russia.

Russia needs hardcash and want China act as middleman for this Su-35 deal for PAF. Same as how RD-93 engine evolved. End of the day, Russia will shoved all problem to China which India cant do anything to her.

Simply in a short sentence: prove it or shut up !

It's indeed a common habbit from You to never give any source ... if You don't want to give or the post fits Your opinion, but You always want and demand an official source if the argument does not fit Your opinion. Otherwise You call other stupid or accuse them to lack a certain understanding ...

Sorry I'm already eager to simply give You a break in order to reconsider Your way of posting. Either You should use the same standard for both Your posts and others with or without a quote or You should admit that these things are Your ideas, that You found them on the net ... but do not tell them as a fact and bash others.

Again. If Russia needs cash and Pakistan could semm these bbirds ... why not directly from Sukhio, why such a political-sensitive plot via China. It does not makes any sense.

Deino

 

[Beast]

Again. If Russia needs cash and Pakistan could semm these bbirds ... why not directly from Sukhio, why such a political-sensitive plot via China. It does not makes any sense.

Deino

Did you even bother to read my post?

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales - The Economic Times

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales
While the Indian military establishment does not consider the recent sale of four Russian Mi-35 attack choppers to Pakistan as having major security implications, it has been a landmark deal because it was the first combat platform Russia sold to the country.

Larger concerns revolve around reports that Pakistan is in talks to acquire the Su-35 fighter aircraft — a high-end combat platform that is more capable than the India's Su-30 MKI fleet, sources said. Though Moscow has denied that it is close to signing an agreement on the fighters, it is believed that a formal request of interest has been sent by Pakistan — the first step in a military purchase project with Russia.



You are navie to think Su-35 can be sold to PAF directly w/o repercussion from India.

 

[Deino]

Did you even bother to read my post?

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales - The Economic Times

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales
While the Indian military establishment does not consider the recent sale of four Russian Mi-35 attack choppers to Pakistan as having major security implications, it has been a landmark deal because it was the first combat platform Russia sold to the country.

Larger concerns revolve around reports that Pakistan is in talks to acquire the Su-35 fighter aircraft — a high-end combat platform that is more capable than the India's Su-30 MKI fleet, sources said. Though Moscow has denied that it is close to signing an agreement on the fighters, it is believed that a formal request of interest has been sent by Pakistan — the first step in a military purchase project with Russia.



You are navie to think Su-35 can be sold to PAF directly w/o repercussion from India.

And You are naive to think the CHinese Su-35 can be delivered to or even based in Pakistan w/o repercussion from all over the world.

But I think I simply leave it ....

 

[Oldman1]

Deino, you are a very tactical guy but you lack the political wisdom for discussion.

Su-35 for PAF thru China is a deal with blessing from Sino-Russia. China has verbal agree not to sell any of Russia lineage Su-27 aircraft like J-11B or J-16.

Russia still technically do not want to anger India with a major weapon sales to Pakistan. Transport helicopter Mi-17,obsolete attack gunship like Mi-35 and small weapons are technically not consider a major weapon to PA. But a most advance fighter in Russia service like Su-35 sold to Pakistan directly will cause a stir between India and Russia.

Russia needs hardcash and want China act as middleman for this Su-35 deal for PAF. Same as how RD-93 engine evolved. End of the day, Russia will shoved all problem to China which India cant do anything to her.

The way you put out doesn't make sense whatsoever. If China wants the PAF to have them, just give them a loan for it and let Pakistan buy it without any hassle. Whether India finds out or not doesn't matter. What are they going to do against China or Russia for selling such weapons? And India can find out just watching what Russia does if the Su-35s going into Pakistan with no objections.

 

[CHD]

Did you even bother to read my post?

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales - The Economic Times

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales
While the Indian military establishment does not consider the recent sale of four Russian Mi-35 attack choppers to Pakistan as having major security implications, it has been a landmark deal because it was the first combat platform Russia sold to the country.

Larger concerns revolve around reports that Pakistan is in talks to acquire the Su-35 fighter aircraft — a high-end combat platform that is more capable than the India's Su-30 MKI fleet, sources said. Though Moscow has denied that it is close to signing an agreement on the fighters, it is believed that a formal request of interest has been sent by Pakistan — the first step in a military purchase project with Russia.



You are navie to think Su-35 can be sold to PAF directly w/o repercussion from India.

I am with you beast, Gawadar will be first projection of chinese power overseas.

 

[Beast]

And You are naive to think the CHinese Su-35 can be delivered to or even based in Pakistan w/o repercussion from all over the world.

But I think I simply leave it ....

Or over the world? Are you joking? hahaha.. You mean the whole world besides India will condemn China over this issue?

I am with you beast, Gawadar will be first projection of chinese power overseas.

This Deino is not an expert in Political discussion. Ignore his comment.

The way you put out doesn't make sense whatsoever. If China wants the PAF to have them, just give them a loan for it and let Pakistan buy it without any hassle. Whether India finds out or not doesn't matter. What are they going to do against China or Russia for selling such weapons? And India can find out just watching what Russia does if the Su-35s going into Pakistan with no objections.

You simply again failed to read my previou post. Russian now will not deal directly with PA on major weapon sales.

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales
While the Indian military establishment does not consider the recent sale of four Russian Mi-35 attack choppers to Pakistan as having major security implications, it has been a landmark deal because it was the first combat platform Russia sold to the country.

Larger concerns revolve around reports that Pakistan is in talks to acquire the Su-35 fighter aircraft — a high-end combat platform that is more capable than the India's Su-30 MKI fleet, sources said. Though Moscow has denied that it is close to signing an agreement on the fighters, it is believed that a formal request of interest has been sent by Pakistan — the first step in a military purchase project with Russia.

Source: DEFENCE MINISTER MANOHAR PARRIKAR RAISES PAKISTAN QUESTION IN RUSSIA, SHARES CONCERNS ON ARMS SALES

Remember how the sneaky Russia sell RD-93 engines to Pakistan right under India nose thru China as middleman. History will repeat itself. Russia will then claimed " You see, its all the Chinese fault. We have nothing to do with it! " India will then s*ck its thumb with such claims.

 

[Shotgunner51]

To admit even I for myself was long more than sceptical in regard to this deal, it is now a fact and the PLAAF will surely have its reasons even if we - or not all of us - undestand or like this.

Anyway, You are correct, the FTTC uses the MKK within the 172. Brigade as a "Blue Force" regiment. IMO this unit is the most likely unit to receive them in order to explore its capabilities and develop tactics for the own use of TVC.

Deino

Well as civilians we all have limited info on the deal, even more limited on the intentions! My guesses are like these, for Chinese intentions are:

1. FTTC got upgraded "foreign" birds (on top of MKK).
2. AVIC can examine the new engines.
   
3. Directly helps funding Russian in their expensive military campaigns versus common adversaries.
   
4. Strengthen de facto alliance with Russia.
   
5. Indirectly helps Pakistan to clear Su-35 opportunities from opponent's camp. (These birds may or may not end up in Pakistani possession, I have no clue yet, let's see what @Beast has to say)
6. Despite the amount is small, still good value for excessive & low yield forex reserves.

For Russians:

1. Immediate financials, on both jets and engines.
2. Marketing effect for the bird to other buyers.
3. Strengthen de facto alliance with China
   
4. Keep engaged in AVIC engine progress, not being alienated from it.
   
5. Rally domestic & foreign (from India) support to focus on PAKFA/T50.

Just my personal guesses, nothing confirmed. Your views are welcome!