China Airlines to buy 16 Boeing 787s in $4.6bn deal

[beijingwalker]

China Airlines to buy 16 Boeing 787s in $4.6bn deal​

August 30, 2022 20:06 JST

(Reuters) -- Taiwan's China Airlines Ltd said on Tuesday it would buy 16 Boeing Co 787 widebody planes to replace its aging fleet of Airbus AIR.PA A330s following a widely-watched contest held against the backdrop of regional tensions.

The politically sensitive deal, worth $4.6 billion at list prices, was announced by the government-backed carrier weeks after a visit to Taipei by U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi angered Beijing and stoked Sino-U.S. trade tensions.

Boeing, which is trying to rebuild its business in China, was seen as the front-runner amid political issues surrounding the China-claimed, self-ruled island but had been at pains to avoid using her visit to actively lobby for a 787 deal, industry sources told Reuters earlier this month.

Boeing's CEO said last month that 737 MAX deliveries to China remained blocked by COVID-19 and a "geopolitical overhang", in a reference to simmering trade tensions between the world's two biggest economies.

The order from Taiwan, however, is the latest sign of a long-awaited pickup in widebody demand and a boost for the U.S. aircraft-maker weeks after it resumed deliveries of its premier long-haul model following a 15-month halt over production issues.

China Airlines said the 787s would allow it to phase out its fleet of 22 older A330s. The orders for the 787-9 version include options for eight more as well as conversion rights to the higher-capacity 787-10 model.

The carrier, one of the world's biggest freight airlines, cited the 787's cargo-carrying capacity as one of the reasons behind its selection in a contest that industry sources said pitted the 787 against the A330neo.

Deliveries of the 787s are expected to start in 2025, the airline said.

China Airlines, which has been profitable during much of the pandemic because of a shift to cargo services, is now gearing up for a rebound in passenger travel when Taiwan lifts quarantine rules for arrivals.

Taiwan's China Airlines to buy 16 Boeing 787s in $4.6bn deal

Deal is latest sign of long-awaited pickup in demand for widebody aircraft

asia.nikkei.com

 

[Leishangthem]

buying the shitty boeing to appease their overlords.

 

[aryobarzan]

China Airlines to buy 16 Boeing 787s in $4.6bn deal​

August 30, 2022 20:06 JST

(Reuters) -- Taiwan's China Airlines Ltd said on Tuesday it would buy 16 Boeing Co 787 widebody planes to replace its aging fleet of Airbus AIR.PA A330s following a widely-watched contest held against the backdrop of regional tensions.

The politically sensitive deal, worth $4.6 billion at list prices, was announced by the government-backed carrier weeks after a visit to Taipei by U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi angered Beijing and stoked Sino-U.S. trade tensions.

Boeing, which is trying to rebuild its business in China, was seen as the front-runner amid political issues surrounding the China-claimed, self-ruled island but had been at pains to avoid using her visit to actively lobby for a 787 deal, industry sources told Reuters earlier this month.

Boeing's CEO said last month that 737 MAX deliveries to China remained blocked by COVID-19 and a "geopolitical overhang", in a reference to simmering trade tensions between the world's two biggest economies.

The order from Taiwan, however, is the latest sign of a long-awaited pickup in widebody demand and a boost for the U.S. aircraft-maker weeks after it resumed deliveries of its premier long-haul model following a 15-month halt over production issues.

China Airlines said the 787s would allow it to phase out its fleet of 22 older A330s. The orders for the 787-9 version include options for eight more as well as conversion rights to the higher-capacity 787-10 model.

The carrier, one of the world's biggest freight airlines, cited the 787's cargo-carrying capacity as one of the reasons behind its selection in a contest that industry sources said pitted the 787 against the A330neo.

Deliveries of the 787s are expected to start in 2025, the airline said.

China Airlines, which has been profitable during much of the pandemic because of a shift to cargo services, is now gearing up for a rebound in passenger travel when Taiwan lifts quarantine rules for arrivals.

Taiwan's China Airlines to buy 16 Boeing 787s in $4.6bn deal

Deal is latest sign of long-awaited pickup in demand for widebody aircraft

asia.nikkei.com

I am wondering why would China want to buy American planes . We know what will happen if things go south between the two countries.

But I have a bigger question..China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus..I bet if we had Chinese Jumbo jets flying around many countries would be interested to buy ..the hell with US and Europe and their sanctions..

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

buying the shitty boeing to appease their overlords.

Well that shitty apparently is better than the rest of the world's even shittier aircraft.

I am wondering why would China want to buy American planes . We know what will happen if things go south between the two countries.

But I have a bigger question..China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus..I bet if we had Chinese Jumbo jets flying around many countries would be interested to buy ..the hell with US and Europe and their sanctions..

Because there are so many parts and IP rights it is taking a long time to redesign everything. Just look how they leveraged the Soyuz for their Shenzhou instead of investing billions and years of trial&error creating one from scratch.

 

[beijingwalker]

China airlines is Taiwan's , Air China is mainland China's. I was also confused when I saw them side by side in LA airport.

 

[aryobarzan]

Well that shitty apparently is better than the rest of the world's even shittier aircraft.



Because there are so many parts and IP rights it is taking a long time to redesign everything. Just look how they leveraged the Soyuz for their Shenzhou instead of investing billions and years of trial&error creating one from scratch.

I can understand that but they also have the capability of design from scratch and go 100% domestic components so as to not be restricted by the US or European export laws...100% domestic parts means more money and longer development time but we are talking potential markets worth billions.

 

[Catalystic]

B777 was/is highly successful plane, so is the 787.
Even A350 is good too

Fuel efficient and comfort is good for passengers as well as the airline

 

[beijingwalker]

Air China 中国国航

China airlines 中华航空 （Taiwan）

I am wondering why would China want to buy American planes . We know what will happen if things go south between the two countries.

China now prefers European airbus over Boeing, China airlines is from Taiwan, not mainland China.

 

[gambit]

I am wondering why would China want to buy American planes . We know what will happen if things go south between the two countries.

But I have a bigger question..China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus..I bet if we had Chinese Jumbo jets flying around many countries would be interested to buy ..the hell with US and Europe and their sanctions..

Because China cannot force anyone to buy their airplanes, or any product for that matter. I can tell from your tone that you are hostile to the West. But I can also tell that you know little about aviation so am going to be nice in response to you.

For the airplane, there is the certification process involved. Certification means standards. It means that the rest of the world is uncertain about Chinese designed/built airplanes. There is nothing wrong with this. Before the USAF, I learned how to fly in a Cessna 152. If Cessna have a newer version of this venerable little airplane, it still must go thru the same certification process as anything Boeing or Airbus or Bombardier produce. For passengers, essentially the most precious of all cargo, the Western countries have a history in aviation literally from the start of aviation. China does not. It means the standards today came from Western aviation, not China. That does not mean Chinese aviation will not succeed. I said 'will not', not 'cannot'. Technically speaking, there is no barrier for China, but trust take time and this is where the 'will not' come in. China proved they CAN design and build a functional airplane. Now it will take time before the 'will not trust' turns into 'will trust'. And no one can force that time.

 

[aryobarzan]

Because China cannot force anyone to buy their airplanes, or any product for that matter. I can tell from your tone that you are hostile to the West. But I can also tell that you know little about aviation so am going to be nice in response to you.

For the airplane, there is the certification process involved. Certification means standards. It means that the rest of the world is uncertain about Chinese designed/built airplanes. There is nothing wrong with this. Before the USAF, I learned how to fly in a Cessna 152. If Cessna have a newer version of this venerable little airplane, it still must go thru the same certification process as anything Boeing or Airbus or Bombardier produce. For passengers, essentially the most precious of all cargo, the Western countries have a history in aviation literally from the start of aviation. China does not. It means the standards today came from Western aviation, not China. That does not mean Chinese aviation will not succeed. I said 'will not', not 'cannot'. Technically speaking, there is no barrier for China, but trust take time and this is where the 'will not' come in. China proved they CAN design and build a functional airplane. Now it will take time before the 'will not trust' turns into 'will trust'. And no one can force that time.

Thank for your explanation but I did not really need them...I have 35 years of working as engineer for Lockheed Martin, General dynamics and Bell helicopter..and I am not hostile to the west..I live there worked there and retired there...
Now about the subject..China has a huge domestic market..the "trust" in their certification programs will come by initially marketing their products internally..foreign customers will be askin questions, watching comparing costs vs risks etc..same process apply to any new product in the field...development times are not as long using new design and simulation tools..and western countries do not have monopoly on any technology as far as I know. And one last thing..when you are in a western university engineering school take a look around the class room....you will see a lot of none native faces..

 

[MH.Yang]

I am wondering why would China want to buy American planes . We know what will happen if things go south between the two countries.

But I have a bigger question..China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus..I bet if we had Chinese Jumbo jets flying around many countries would be interested to buy ..the hell with US and Europe and their sanctions..

China Airlines is a Taiwan airline, not a mainland airline.​

​

The full name of the Taiwan govt is the Republic of China(POC). ​

​

The full name of CCP govt is the people's Republic of China(PRC). ​

​

Both govts consider themselves China.​

 

[Han Patriot]

Hahahah cheerleaders wanted to cheer until they realise Taiwan's official airline is called China Airlines. Lol

 

[aryobarzan]

China Airlines is a Taiwan airline, not a mainland airline.​

​

The full name of the Taiwan govt is the Republic of China(POC). ​

​

The full name of CCP govt is the people's Republic of China(PRC). ​

​

Both govts consider themselves China.​

Yes I already got that sorted out..but the question of why China does not develop a domestic commercial airliner is still outstanding in my mind..care to elaborate on that please.

 

[gambit]

Thank for your explanation but I did not really need them...I have 35 years of working as engineer for Lockheed Martin, General dynamics and Bell helicopter..and I am not hostile to the west..I live there worked there and retired there...

Really? Your question was:

"China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus"​

That is not reflective of decades of aviation work experience. Anyone with even five yrs experience would IMMEDIATELY understand the need for standards and certifications, and the time needed for any new airplane to get on the market.

Now about the subject..China has a huge domestic market..the "trust" in their certification programs will come by initially marketing their products internally..foreign customers will be askin questions, watching comparing costs vs risks etc..same process apply to any new product in the field...development times are not as long using new design and simulation tools..and western countries do not have monopoly on any technology as far as I know. And one last thing..when you are in a western university engineering school take a look around the class room....you will see a lot of none native faces..

The Chinese government forced Chinese airlines to buy Chinese designed/built airplanes.

COMAC C919: Chinese rival to Airbus and Boeing in the single-aisle segment, closer to take off

The COMAC C919 narrow-body aircraft is closer to obtaining its type certification after completing all flight test tasks, according to Reuters. State-owned C

www.aviacionline.com

It is important to note that COMAC will not seek certification of the C919 by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) or the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). Due to economic and geopolitical factors, these are not markets of interest to the Chinese manufacturer, or that it can easily entice. However, in China’s aviation market and in those countries with which the Asian giant maintains fluid relations and greater influence, the new model could compete with Western manufacturers for a considerable share of the total market.​

So at best, the C919 would be in domestic Chinese and assorted Africa airlines where maybe standards are less stringent.

 

[aryobarzan]

Really? Your question was:

"China has all the $$$ and engineering talent and huge domestic market..Why not become a third center of commercial aircraft suppliers to the world after Boeing and Airbus"​

That is not reflective of decades of aviation work experience. Anyone with even five yrs experience would IMMEDIATELY understand the need for standards and certifications, and the time needed for any new airplane to get on the market.


The Chinese government forced Chinese airlines to buy Chinese designed/built airplanes.

COMAC C919: Chinese rival to Airbus and Boeing in the single-aisle segment, closer to take off

The COMAC C919 narrow-body aircraft is closer to obtaining its type certification after completing all flight test tasks, according to Reuters. State-owned C

www.aviacionline.com

It is important to note that COMAC will not seek certification of the C919 by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) or the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). Due to economic and geopolitical factors, these are not markets of interest to the Chinese manufacturer, or that it can easily entice. However, in China’s aviation market and in those countries with which the Asian giant maintains fluid relations and greater influence, the new model could compete with Western manufacturers for a considerable share of the total market.​

So at best, the C919 would be in domestic Chinese and assorted Africa airlines where maybe standards are less stringent.

You may read about "standards" I lived them..and yes certifications take time no issue there...if you spend few days on a flight test environment you realize that fast...

Thanks for the info on COMAC . Something I was not aware .