Chilling MH370 discovery about how pilot flew undetected, according to aviation experts

[dreamer4eva]

Let's assume the pilot planned it.
What about the 2nd officer? Did he want to do this. You telling me he was asleep ??? Or didn't know what was happening

I have exactly the same thoughts and that is most difficult part to address. My hypothesis is, it is based on the information I know so happy to stand corrected.

First co-incidence, he said, goodbye MH 370 when he crossed over from Malaysian airspace to Vietnamese air space.

Second co-incidence, he switched the transponders, which can only be swtiched off manually by Pilot or first officer, more importantly the timing of it, he did 2-3 mins after the switch over from one jurisdiction to another jurisdiction. We have two co-incidences within 5 mins. With the switch off he is blind to civilian radars and only military radars can detect the aircraft now.

3rd co-incidence, he deliberately used the flight path which crossed over Malay and Thai airspace intermittently. Remember its third co-incidence now.

4th one, he took left turn over Penang Island, his home town, you can only see Penang from Pilot seat on that flight path when you turn left not right. IMO, he is saying final good bye to his home town. Another co-incidence you reckon?

5th one, he flew over the maximum flight ceiling for few mins, very risky move as it can/will de-pressurize the aircraft and will only do if you are on one way mission.

6th co-incidence, on his personal simulator, he has flight path of 7 arc and I have no doubt he simulated this entire flight before. My head is spinning from so many co-incidences in single flight now.

Your question, first officer was a rookie, it was his first flight as a co-pilot. You know the Asian culture, work places are hierarchical and people are more prone to accept authority, than the western world. There was an actual Korean Airlines accident (can't remember the time but saw a doco on Air Crash Investigations Program) when first officer accepted his fate of crashing down than questioning his main Pilots authority.

In my opinion, he some how overpowered/convinced/duped his co-pilot and went on this one way mission.

Sorry mate very busy with work, so won't be able respond further, hope I explained my rationale. I have typed it very quickly and English is my 2nd language so haven't checked grammar and if this paragraph makes sense, some statement may be little hard to comprehend, however you'll get the gist of it.

 

[jhungary]

I have exactly the same thoughts and that is most difficult part to address. My hypothesis is, it is based on the information I know so happy to stand corrected.

First co-incidence, he said, goodbye MH 370 when he crossed over from Malaysian airspace to Vietnamese air space.

Second co-incidence, he switched the transponders, which can only be swtiched off manually by Pilot or first officer, more importantly the timing of it, he did 2-3 mins after the switch over from one jurisdiction to another jurisdiction. We have two co-incidences within 5 mins. With the switch off he is blind to civilian radars and only military radars can detect the aircraft now.

3rd co-incidence, he deliberately used the flight path which crossed over Malay and Thai airspace intermittently. Remember its third co-incidence now.

4th one, he took left turn over Penang Island, his home town, you can only see Penang from Pilot seat on that flight path when you turn left not right. IMO, he is saying final good bye to his home town. Another co-incidence you reckon?

5th one, he flew over the maximum flight ceiling for few mins, very risky move as it can/will de-pressurize the aircraft and will only do if you are on one way mission.

6th co-incidence, on his personal simulator, he has flight path of 7 arc and I have no doubt he simulated this entire flight before. My head is spinning from so many co-incidences in single flight now.

Your question, first officer was a rookie, it was his first flight as a co-pilot. You know the Asian culture, work places are hierarchical and people are more prone to accept authority, than the western world. There was an actual Korean Airlines accident (can't remember the time but saw a doco on Air Crash Investigations Program) when first officer accepted his fate of crashing down than questioning his main Pilots authority.

In my opinion, he some how overpowered/convinced/duped his co-pilot and went on this one way mission.

Sorry mate very busy with work, so won't be able respond further, hope I explained my rationale. I have typed it very quickly and English is my 2nd language so haven't checked grammar and if this paragraph makes sense, some statement may be little hard to comprehend, however you'll get the gist of it.

Not knowing Malaysian procedure, but in Qantas (my wife used to be a Qantas Hostess) The captain can ask the co-pilot to run errant for him (like fetching his food, coffee etc) and the Captain can order the FO to go to bed. However, since Qantas have a 2 men rule in the cockpit since 9-11, if the FO have to do something, he or she would have to ask the senior purser to sit in his/her seat until he come back.

Another possibility is the Captain may have kill/incapacitate the FO somehow before he make the course, it can also be easily done too.

 

[Trango Towers]

I have exactly the same thoughts and that is most difficult part to address. My hypothesis is, it is based on the information I know so happy to stand corrected.

First co-incidence, he said, goodbye MH 370 when he crossed over from Malaysian airspace to Vietnamese air space.

Second co-incidence, he switched the transponders, which can only be swtiched off manually by Pilot or first officer, more importantly the timing of it, he did 2-3 mins after the switch over from one jurisdiction to another jurisdiction. We have two co-incidences within 5 mins. With the switch off he is blind to civilian radars and only military radars can detect the aircraft now.

3rd co-incidence, he deliberately used the flight path which crossed over Malay and Thai airspace intermittently. Remember its third co-incidence now.

4th one, he took left turn over Penang Island, his home town, you can only see Penang from Pilot seat on that flight path when you turn left not right. IMO, he is saying final good bye to his home town. Another co-incidence you reckon?

5th one, he flew over the maximum flight ceiling for few mins, very risky move as it can/will de-pressurize the aircraft and will only do if you are on one way mission.

6th co-incidence, on his personal simulator, he has flight path of 7 arc and I have no doubt he simulated this entire flight before. My head is spinning from so many co-incidences in single flight now.

Your question, first officer was a rookie, it was his first flight as a co-pilot. You know the Asian culture, work places are hierarchical and people are more prone to accept authority, than the western world. There was an actual Korean Airlines accident (can't remember the time but saw a doco on Air Crash Investigations Program) when first officer accepted his fate of crashing down than questioning his main Pilots authority.

In my opinion, he some how overpowered/convinced/duped his co-pilot and went on this one way mission.

Sorry mate very busy with work, so won't be able respond further, hope I explained my rationale. I have typed it very quickly and English is my 2nd language so haven't checked grammar and if this paragraph makes sense, some statement may be little hard to comprehend, however you'll get the gist of it.

You you have some very valid points.
I am not saying that it wasn't a one way mission. Quite possibly. But there are questions that need answering. You have quoted excellent points

 

[khansaheeb]

If the line pilot intention is to claim insurance, then he cannot let this be a proven "Suicide" and it have to stay accidental to have a pay out. That is the reason why all the cloak and dagger if he just wanted to kill himself.

But on the other hand, nobody have any evidence suggest that he is doing it for the insurance.

I have actually written a report on MH370 sometime before for a insurance company, I will see if I can find it and release the extract here.



It show on radar, but something shown on a country radar does not mean they have to be investigated, unless you are flying into restricted airspace or ADIZ, most of the time Ground Radar personnel would simply ignore the contact if they were not acting strange, because they can be non IFR flight or even false reading...

If a huge jet can go undetected for a substantial amount of time and space then smaller stealth craft with countermeasures will be impossible to detect and intercept.

 

[Hack-Hook]

He planned it really well. He used the path in way that he was zig-zagging between Thai and Malaysian airspace, a plane need to be in some other country's air space for few minutes before it deemed suspicious enough for fighter jets escort. The pilot was a veteran, and had simulators at his home, he planned this to the nth degree.

Answering your question, plane did not evade tracking system, it was detected by both Thai and Malaysian military radars, however, as I said above, it was not in their respective airspace for long enough to get the normal UFO SOP activated.

The problem is if it was the case in later reviews they easily could see the airplane in their radars log and followed its path . by the way if a plane for example 10 times enter your airspace andthen leave ,well it make me suspicious I don't knew about southeast asian people.

 

[jhungary]

If a huge jet can go undetected for a substantial amount of time and space then smaller stealth craft with countermeasures will be impossible to detect and intercept.

Well, everything shows up on Radar, if you know how to look for it, but the thing is, how do you know what is what.

In today's world, Radar power can basically penetrate everything, however, whatever it returned is different, and that is totally depend on the craft itself, and that is the core principle of "Stealth". Stealth is not what most people think, it's not "invisible" to the radar, rather, it fool the radar by returning a signal similar to a smaller object, and that's the way it defeat radar, because you will pick up every signal out there flying in your airspace, not all have a transponder and let you know what they are, and you will not have time to investigate all these contact before it leaves your airspace, so unless it appear suspiciously, you most likely will ignore these "harmless" contacts.

 

[dreamer4eva]

Not knowing Malaysian procedure, but in Qantas (my wife used to be a Qantas Hostess) The captain can ask the co-pilot to run errant for him (like fetching his food, coffee etc) and the Captain can order the FO to go to bed. However, since Qantas have a 2 men rule in the cockpit since 9-11, if the FO have to do something, he or she would have to ask the senior purser to sit in his/her seat until he come back. Another possibility is the Captain may have kill/incapacitate the FO somehow before he make the course, it can also be easily done too.

I have very similar thoughts, its very common for Pilot to ask co-pilot to fetch a coffee and sometimes they also stretch legs. Malaysian Airlines risk policies were non existing , remember MH17 was flying very risky airspace to save few gallons of fuel, and they did not have ACARS installed as it was not mandatory.

The problem is if it was the case in later reviews they easily could see the airplane in their radars log and followed its path . by the way if a plane for example 10 times enter your airspace andthen leave ,well it make me suspicious I don't knew about southeast asian people.

Hope it does not come across boasting, have extended family members in the upper echelons of Indian Navy, I asked the question, do Indian Navy have radar data as it flown right over Malacca Straits, I just got a smile. My point is, US, France and may be India have data, however, no one will share it due to strategic reasons, and it'll compromise their radar locations.

Civilian aircrafts follow the pre-defined arcs and it is widely assumed it was following the 7th arc, it is a possibility it deviated from actual arc, however, IMO, it was on auto pilot until it has very less fuel and then captain went for suicidal glide. The wing they found in Reunion Island was intact with flaps down and that's a tell tale sign of controlled landing, it would have shattered in pieces if it was not a controlled landing.

Answering your question, it depends on relation between countries, Malaysia and Thailand have normal relations so I suppose they just ignored.

 

[rambro]

Suicide?
Dont make sense, why would he go through so much hassle just to die? He could have jump off a building there are so many easier ways to suicide less painful too.

Smells fishy

 

[Hack-Hook]

I have very similar thoughts, its very common for Pilot to ask co-pilot to fetch a coffee and sometimes they also stretch legs. Malaysian Airlines risk policies were non existing , remember MH17 was flying very risky airspace to save few gallons of fuel, and they did not have ACARS installed as it was not mandatory.



Hope it does not come across boasting, have extended family members in the upper echelons of Indian Navy, I asked the question, do Indian Navy have radar data as it flown right over Malacca Straits, I just got a smile. My point is, US, France and may be India have data, however, no one will share it due to strategic reasons, and it'll compromise their radar locations.

Civilian aircrafts follow the pre-defined arcs and it is widely assumed it was following the 7th arc, it is a possibility it deviated from actual arc, however, IMO, it was on auto pilot until it has very less fuel and then captain went for suicidal glide. The wing they found in Reunion Island was intact with flaps down and that's a tell tale sign of controlled landing, it would have shattered in pieces if it was not a controlled landing.

Answering your question, it depends on relation between countries, Malaysia and Thailand have normal relations so I suppose they just ignored.

Honestly do you think anybody can hide a radar that is turned on ?

 

[saltyashell]

The countries with radar overlap of the area can easily pass on the information without revealing their capabilities, maybe anonymously. Everything is not so cloak and dagger.
It was just a 5 hr flight , so no chance of 1st officer going for a nap.
The pilot has gained nothing from this so called suicide , no publicity for any cause , no insurance , no sympathy . So what was the motive ?

 

[dreamer4eva]

Honestly do you think anybody can hide a radar that is turned on ?

Its not about hiding and is more about concealing your capabilities from public domain. It is same situation when people say, neither I can confirm nor I can deny to keep things ambiguous as a strategic move.

Also, you'll only find a turned on radar if you are actively looking for a turned on radar.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Its not about hiding and is more about concealing your capabilities from public domain. It is same situation when people say, neither I can confirm nor I can deny to keep things ambiguous as a strategic move.

Also, you'll only find a turned on radar if you are actively looking for a turned on radar.

you find its capabilities if you actively search for them, even an interested high school kid can find a turned on radar with equipment he /She can buy from Radioshack

 

[dreamer4eva]

you find its capabilities if you actively search for them, even an interested high school kid can find a turned on radar with equipment he /She can buy from Radioshack

Last reply mate, my point was about radar locations in Indian Ocean, you may know better than me, how many countries have capability/will to look for those radars especially in Indian Ocean. It is speculated that Indians have installed swordfish radars in Andaman & Nicobar Islands, which were not too far from MH370 flight path.

In 2004, Indian government declined help for Andaman & Nicobar Islands Tsunami victims from rest of the world, under the premise that we don't need help. I can tell you the actual reason, they were worried about disclosing their radar locations and strategic assets in those islands.