Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Sergi]

@hk299792458 no offence but I want info from Chinese members so I will wait for the reply of Chinese-Tiger or anyone else.. He seems to be convinced with the facts of NG engine development. Lets hear it from him.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Engine maturation will take time. However J-20 will be a formidable platform even given its current configuration. According to Big-shrimps from CJDBY the AL-31 equipped J-20 has a thrust-to-weight ratio comparable to most 4th gen. fighters. Should something go wrong with WS-15, I believe that WS-10A/B equipped J-20s will still be capable of suppressing most regional 4/4.5 gen fighters.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Engine maturation will take time. However J-20 will be a formidable platform even given its current configuration. According to Big-shrimps from CJDBY the AL-31 equipped J-20 has a thrust-to-weight ratio comparable to most 4th gen. fighters. Should something go wrong with WS-15, I believe that WS-10A/B equipped J-20s will still be capable of suppressing most regional 4/4.5 gen fighters.

2020-2022 is not far away WS-10A/B would be able to drag till WS-15 matures.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well you said the same things again but you missed my question.

I asked you why do you thing your Next Generation Engine development is ahead of Russia ??? does your claim has any technical reasons or its your Patriotic opinion ???

I am more interested in technical norms and development.
May I add some points for comparison
- Russian have mastered TVC along ago and now said to have developed 3D TVC
- they claimed to develop NG engine exhaust nozzles
- new composite blade material and many other things

Look, i am patriotic, and i am always taking the facts over the patriotism.

The design Russia's nuclear sub is still ahead of us for now, Yasen class SSN is more advanced than any nuclear subs in our inventory, and it is the most advanced nuclear sub in the world.

And Russia also has few other space technologies more mature than us, not a shame to admit when it is a fact.

But when it comes to something that we deserved to get more credits, we don't have to show any humility.

Our surface warship is now more advanced than Russia's, albeit the AESA Aegis DDG.

We can admit the fact that our nuclear sub is behind of Russia, while if someone can't admit that China having more advanced Aegis DDG, then he/she is not impartial.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

2020-2022 is not far away WS-10A/B would be able to drag till WS-15 matures.

The WS-15 engine will be on J-20 around 2015, and it will become fully mature by 2025.

 

[Sergi]

Look, i am patriotic, and i am always taking the facts over the patriotism.

The design Russia's nuclear sub is still ahead of us for now, Yasen class SSN is more advanced than any nuclear subs in our inventory, and it is the most advanced nuclear sub in the world.

And Russia also has few other space technologies more mature than us, not a shame to admit when it is a fact.

But when it comes to something that we deserved to get more credits, we don't have to show any humility.

Our surface warship is now more advanced than Russia's, albeit the AESA Aegis DDG.

We can admit the fact that our nuclear sub is behind of Russia, while if someone can't admit that China having more advanced Aegis DDG, then he/she is not impartial.

What are you talking comrade ???
Did you see anywhere I question tech development of china ???

You made a statement and I simple asked the basis for that. Why are you making issue of that. If you can't answer my question say so I won't ask it again. But why are you mixing other stuff in that ???

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What are you talking comrade ???
Did you see anywhere I question tech development of china ???

You made a statement and I simple asked the basis for that. Why are you making issue of that. If you can't answer my question say so I won't ask it again. But why are you mixing other stuff in that ???

Do you mean about the TVC technology?

Yes, Russia is the first mastered this technology, and we do have 3D TVC as well.

But J-31 will definitely use 2D TVC instead, since it is cheaper and stealthier.

And i speculate that J-20 will probably follow the same suit, as the WS-15 engine has to sacrifice 10% of its performance in thrust, but with more stealthier flat nozzles.

 

[Sergi]

Do you mean about the TVC technology?

Yes, Russia is the first mastered this technology, and we do have 3D TVC as well.

But J-31 will definitely use 2D TVC instead, since it is cheaper and stealthier.

And i speculate that J-20 will probably follow the same suit, as the WS-15 engine has to sacrifice 10% of its performance in thrust, but with more stealthier flat nozzles.

No I mean that you said China is ahead of Russian NG engine development. I want to know why you claim that ???

China has 3D TVC ??? That's a news to me. Can you provide me any links/pics/videos for that ???

If WS-15 is producing the amount of trust you claimed, 10% of it not a big deal. But the amount of stealth it will ACHIVE will make fighter more promising

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No I mean that you said China is ahead of Russian NG engine development. I want to know why you claim that ???

China has 3D TVC ??? That's a news to me. Can you provide me any links/pics/videos for that ???

If WS-15 is producing the amount of trust you claimed, 10% of it not a big deal. But the amount of stealth it will ACHIVE will make fighter more promising

If you don't believe me about the NG engine, that's fine.

I guess we have only to prove ourselves to see if the WS-15 engine is moving ahead.

It won't be long, can you wait until by the end of this year or the beginning of the next year?

 

[Sergi]

If you don't believe me about the NG engine, that's fine.

I guess we have only to prove ourselves to see if the WS-15 engine is moving ahead.

It won't be long, can you wait until by the end of this year or the beginning of the next year?

That's correct !!! you ONLY have to prove it to yourself .

But you made a statement that - China has a edge in NG engine over Russia
To make such statement you need the information on BOTH; Chinese & Russian engines
But I am afraid my friend you don't have the decent information even on Chinese engine. So I guess you just randomly made that statement and wasn't serious over it.

I am not really believer kinda person So I think I will wait till your NG engine officially come out. Then you have more correct technical info to compare it with Russian engine. Till then let's put a pin here

Good luck

 

[hk299792458]

March 12th...

Henri K.

 

[Sasquatch]

Engine maturation will take time. However J-20 will be a formidable platform even given its current configuration. According to Big-shrimps from CJDBY the AL-31 equipped J-20 has a thrust-to-weight ratio comparable to most 4th gen. fighters. Should something go wrong with WS-15, I believe that WS-10A/B equipped J-20s will still be capable of suppressing most regional 4/4.5 gen fighters.

The WS-10 was certified in 2006 and there have been problems with the reliability of it. Now we have seen it installed onto the J-10, J-11, and even the J-15, J-16, J-20 it has produced greater, on par or even less in it's performance with the AL-31. I'd would give a couple more years for it to fully mature, and with the rumors of the 117(it could be an option) engines it would put the J-20 years ahead of the time it is expected while the WS-15 is completed.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The WS-10 was certified in 2006 and there have been problems with the reliability of it. Now we have seen it installed onto the J-10, J-11, and even the J-15, J-16, J-20 it has produced greater, on par or even less in it's performance with the AL-31. I'd would give a couple more years for it to fully mature, and with the rumors of the 117(it could be an option) engines it would put the J-20 years ahead of the time it is expected while the WS-15 is completed.

For sake of self-reliance I hope China sticks with the WS-10 even if it yields inferior results than Russian engines on the short run.

 

[hk299792458]

March 19th...

Henri K.

 

[Lure]

Officials from AVIC clearly stated that China will make it's own jet engines for J-10 and J-20 models. Jet engine is a bottleneck in Chinese aviation industry. That's why they have imported the Russian Saturn AL-31 engines and installed it to J-10s. If it wasn't the case than J-10 will probably be around in 2015 which would be very funny and humiliating.

"During the first phase, which will conclude by the end of 2015 if everything goes well, we will strive to ensure our air force's aircraft be equipped with proper engines and to lift our development capability to that of the developed countries' level in the 1980s. The second phase will witness us substantially narrowing the technological gap between developed countries and us. And by the end of the last phase, our engines will be as advanced as theirs."

I can't post the source as link since I didn't fill the message quota to post it. But it's a news from chinadaily and if anyone interested I can send it from private. As soon as I post 15 messaged I will edit this post and put the link for the source.

From this official announcement we can understand that in 2015 China will have the engine technology to fly a 4th gen fighter which is J-10. By 2020 they will have the technology to fly a 5th gen. fighter which is J-20 and J-31 and if everything goes as planned they will have the jet engine to fly a 6 gen. fighter by 2030.