Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Su33KUB]

In your image, none of the jets are stealthy at all. In this angle Su-27, F15, J-20, F-22, F35 make no difference at all. You are exaggerating.

To be honest, I knew expert in China. They involved much deeper in Radar field, and stealthy design. You are just a user, like I am a user of cars.

Very disappointed. What you provided is inaccurate, not solid evidence, and a lot of things you can NOT explain at all.

he is not wrong, pretty much from above the F-22 has intake shielding, stealth is no magic in fact pretty much with high school physics you can understand it, J-20 or F-22 are not magical machines, they still are visible to radar.

Planforming works basically as signaling mirrors, the chines of J-20 or its flat nacelles are mirror like surfaces

the sun rays have to be reflected into an angle to concentrate a beam of light visible for a pilot to see it, stealth is the opposite, you want that electromagnetic radar emitted signal on an angle with the radar to concentrate most of it on an angle away from the emitter

that last picture shows a woman concentrating light on a mirror and the next picture of J-20 with canards working like the mirror that the woman is holding

For a radar those canards are reflecting a very strong signal and bouncing them back to the radar increasing J-20 radar cross section, the plates of F-22 intake caret are mirrors that are aligned to the chines, J-20 has intake bumps working like a christmas tree ball in term of reflection and a Prism in terms of diffraction

diffraction interference can not cancel the whole radar signal, it is more like this

the number of slits creates an on and off light pattern, what he is telling you some patterns are betters than others, with 7 slits basically you are reducing radar visibility as well as it happens in light.

however you have to consider, flatter a plane with less control surfaces stealthier it becomes for low power radars, the reality is J-20 and F-22 are visible at least according to Chinese and Russian technology but S-400 claims it will down stealth machines.

So he is not wrong however stealth is more propaganda, if you know a bit of thermodynamics you will know, nothing can be made to do not reflect, emmit, absorb or diffract electromagnetic emissions

 

[azesus]

Su33KUB You are the most no life person I've ever seen on the internet, you seriously needs to get a girlfriend before you go crazy and then commit mass shootings

 

[Viking 63]

Su33KUB You are the most no life person I've ever seen on the internet, you seriously needs to get a girlfriend before you go crazy and then commit mass shootings

hahahahahahha, man you are wicked !!!!

 

[vi-va]

he is not wrong, pretty much from above the F-22 has intake shielding, stealth is no magic in fact pretty much with high school physics you can understand it, J-20 or F-22 are not magical machines, they still are visible to radar.

Planforming works basically as signaling mirrors, the chines of J-20 or its flat nacelles are mirror like surfaces

the sun rays have to be reflected into an angle to concentrate a beam of light visible for a pilot to see it, stealth is the opposite, you want that electromagnetic radar emitted signal on an angle with the radar to concentrate most of it on an angle away from the emitter

that last picture shows a woman concentrating light on a mirror and the next picture of J-20 with canards working like the mirror that the woman is holding

For a radar those canards are reflecting a very strong signal and bouncing them back to the radar increasing J-20 radar cross section, the plates of F-22 intake caret are mirrors that are aligned to the chines, J-20 has intake bumps working like a christmas tree ball in term of reflection and a Prism in terms of diffraction

diffraction interference can not cancel the whole radar signal, it is more like this

the number of slits creates an on and off light pattern, what he is telling you some patterns are betters than others, with 7 slits basically you are reducing radar visibility as well as it happens in light.

however you have to consider, flatter a plane with less control surfaces stealthier it becomes for low power radars, the reality is J-20 and F-22 are visible at least according to Chinese and Russian technology but S-400 claims it will down stealth machines.

So he is not wrong however stealth is more propaganda, if you know a bit of thermodynamics you will know, nothing can be made to do not reflect, emmit, absorb or diffract electromagnetic emissions

@azesus is right. You need a girlfriend, then you won't waste your time with me. hahaha.

 

[Su33KUB]

@azesus is right. You need a girlfriend, then you won't waste your time with me. hahaha.

yes of course it is easy to see you do not understand diffraction, hiding upon supposedly smart comments, the j-20 has ventral fins that do have diffraction and you lack of knowledge of even high school physics was shown by do not recognizing that the 7 slit already is eliminating great part of the light by destructive interference, Gambit is right here you show , patriotic physics, but not real physics knowledge therefore, you lack to understand that a sphere basically sends the light on a diffracted path because the train of waves will interact bending light like a prism and creating a pattern of light diffracted and each color has an angle, basically it is what creates the creeping wave.
A good tip read about soap bubbles diffracting light

DSI intakes has a bump, frontally it does not affect too much, but laterally the bump has a different reflection and diffraction pattern than the J-20 forebody chines, on F-22 the intake has plates on its caret intake but these are perfectly aligned with its forebody chines, by having more reflectors J-20 will generate more diffraction and will send radar signal reflected back to the radar, the canards with dihedral are not aligned with the chines, vertical tail, ventral fins and is not covered by the wing as F-22, of course is not because the Chinese do not know stealth technics, they do, but the aft part was left untreated for several reasons, one is area rule, the engine nacelles require less cross section area, stealth demands bigger cross section due to weapons bays, the need to have no 90 degree angles; and the inverted isosceles trapezoid frontal cross section increases drag thus the aft part has rounded cross section.

When you understand that you will see it was designed deliberately less stealthy to give higher mobility and less drag, they knew were sacrificing stealth but gaining performance due to lower drag and higher lift.
The ventrals fins are to give yaw and roll controllability at high alpha, despite they ruin stealth

But hiding in two post that do not bring any proof or debunk my claims with physics well says a lot about the high school physics of the previous posters.

theoretically speaking the ideal cross section for a stealth aircraft is a hexagon and rhombus

J-20 has a rhombus type cross section in the forebody

and a very distorted hexagon in the rest of the fuselaje that in reality is an inverted isosceles trapezoid except on the engine nacelles and jet pipes to reduce drag, this shape is not the best for high speed due to drag

this two shapes are the ideal for reflecting radar away from the emitter and eliminating part of the diffraction of the creeping wave

 

[jaybird]

Tyler Rogoway from thedrive just had an article out today talked about stealth missiles and fighter jets. Seems like some of you guys are only talking about stealthy aircraft visually. But non of us know what lies beneath the skin and substructures of the J-20 or F-22. Here is the part where Tyler was talking about. Don't just scream OH canard! No stealth like the Indians. In other word. We don't know how stealthy J-20 or F-22 actually is unless you work for Chengdu Aerospace Corporation or Lockheed Martin.

Sometimes people superficially conclude there are 'radar traps' in certain areas of stealth aircraft just by looking at them. But what they may not realize is that even though a certain airframe component looks solid and opaque, it isn't to radar and structures are concealed below them that deflect and attenuate radar returns. This ability to build almost two different airframes in one—one that is an aerodynamic and stealthy shaped outer shell of sorts, and one that sits below the skin with areas that provide massive decreases in radar reflectivity where it's needed most, is truly fascinating. The fact that this is able to happen at all also creates the possibility that low-observable design teams and aerodynamic design teams can get to a point where both are satisfied while working together on a high-performance stealth aircraft.

The big takeaway here is that the blended relationship between these substructures and outer skins are usually not apparent when viewing stealthy aircraft visually. Their smooth skin can actually make stealthy aircraft look eerily simple in appearance, but an entirely different world lies beneath, and especially in key areas. This reality makes stealth aircraft even more of a technological accomplishment than they already appear to be, especially considering some of these designs are meant to be battered ruthlessly and heated and cooled for thousands of hours as they careen through the air under high G forces and rip across the sky at supersonic speeds.

So, just remember, when it comes to stealthy aircraft and missiles, they are truly so much more than what meets the eye.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...le-launch-shows-a-key-tenet-of-stealth-design

 

[vi-va]

Tyler Rogoway from thedrive just had an article out today talked about stealth missiles and fighter jets. Seems like some of you guys are only talking about stealthy aircraft visually. But non of us know what lies beneath the skin and substructures of the J-20 or F-22. Here is the part where Tyler was talking about. Don't just scream OH canard! No stealth like the Indians. In other word. We don't know how stealthy J-20 or F-22 actually is unless you work for Chengdu Aerospace Corporation or Lockheed Martin.

Sometimes people superficially conclude there are 'radar traps' in certain areas of stealth aircraft just by looking at them. But what they may not realize is that even though a certain airframe component looks solid and opaque, it isn't to radar and structures are concealed below them that deflect and attenuate radar returns. This ability to build almost two different airframes in one—one that is an aerodynamic and stealthy shaped outer shell of sorts, and one that sits below the skin with areas that provide massive decreases in radar reflectivity where it's needed most, is truly fascinating. The fact that this is able to happen at all also creates the possibility that low-observable design teams and aerodynamic design teams can get to a point where both are satisfied while working together on a high-performance stealth aircraft.

The big takeaway here is that the blended relationship between these substructures and outer skins are usually not apparent when viewing stealthy aircraft visually. Their smooth skin can actually make stealthy aircraft look eerily simple in appearance, but an entirely different world lies beneath, and especially in key areas. This reality makes stealth aircraft even more of a technological accomplishment than they already appear to be, especially considering some of these designs are meant to be battered ruthlessly and heated and cooled for thousands of hours as they careen through the air under high G forces and rip across the sky at supersonic speeds.

So, just remember, when it comes to stealthy aircraft and missiles, they are truly so much more than what meets the eye.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...le-launch-shows-a-key-tenet-of-stealth-design

How absurd. Some military fans can judge RCS with naked eyes. It's kind of like girls judging men by looking.

 

[vi-va]

https://p1-tt.byteimg.com/img/pgc-image/fff4d613e1cd493fbdbaf7483ca8414c~noop_640x422.gif

 

[LKJ86]

Via Xinhua News and @电波震长空XYY from Weibo

 

[gambit]

In your image, none of the jets are stealthy at all. In this angle Su-27, F15, J-20, F-22, F35 make no difference at all. You are exaggerating.

In what way am I 'exaggerating' and exaggerating what?

My point was that the F-22's classic intakes with their diverter plates are irrelevant at some aspects but the J-20's canards are available at all aspects.

To be honest, I knew expert in China. They involved much deeper in Radar field, and stealthy design. You are just a user, like I am a user of cars.

Really? Then have they proved me wrong? I did said you can take what I posted to anyone you like. You are telling the forum that you know some experts but nothing where I am wrong, other than your own opinion that I am wrong, except that you have not proved where I am wrong.

Tyler Rogoway from thedrive just had an article out today talked about stealth missiles and fighter jets. Seems like some of you guys are only talking about stealthy aircraft visually. But non of us know what lies beneath the skin and substructures of the J-20 or F-22. Here is the part where Tyler was talking about. Don't just scream OH canard! No stealth like the Indians. In other word. We don't know how stealthy J-20 or F-22 actually is unless you work for Chengdu Aerospace Corporation or Lockheed Martin.

Sometimes people superficially conclude there are 'radar traps' in certain areas of stealth aircraft just by looking at them. But what they may not realize is that even though a certain airframe component looks solid and opaque, it isn't to radar and structures are concealed below them that deflect and attenuate radar returns. This ability to build almost two different airframes in one—one that is an aerodynamic and stealthy shaped outer shell of sorts, and one that sits below the skin with areas that provide massive decreases in radar reflectivity where it's needed most, is truly fascinating. The fact that this is able to happen at all also creates the possibility that low-observable design teams and aerodynamic design teams can get to a point where both are satisfied while working together on a high-performance stealth aircraft.

The big takeaway here is that the blended relationship between these substructures and outer skins are usually not apparent when viewing stealthy aircraft visually. Their smooth skin can actually make stealthy aircraft look eerily simple in appearance, but an entirely different world lies beneath, and especially in key areas. This reality makes stealth aircraft even more of a technological accomplishment than they already appear to be, especially considering some of these designs are meant to be battered ruthlessly and heated and cooled for thousands of hours as they careen through the air under high G forces and rip across the sky at supersonic speeds.

So, just remember, when it comes to stealthy aircraft and missiles, they are truly so much more than what meets the eye.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...le-launch-shows-a-key-tenet-of-stealth-design

The article is so general that anyone can interpret anything he wish. Who here who read that article -- besides myself -- is willing to guess what he was trying to stay?

How absurd. Some military fans can judge RCS with naked eyes.

Tell that to your fellow Chinese forum members. Since '09, you guys have been the ones who are/were willing to put hard numbers onto what they see.

 

[Ultima Thule]

can we end this endless debate which one have more stealth or which one has less @gambit @viva_zhao

 

[gambit]

can we end this endless debate which one have more stealth or which one has less @gambit @viva_zhao

The debate will never end. There will always be a Chinese or a Pakistani eager to suck up who will make a claim in favor of the Chinese who will re-start the debate all over again.

 

[rashid.sarwar]

https://p1-tt.byteimg.com/img/pgc-image/fff4d613e1cd493fbdbaf7483ca8414c~noop_640x422.gif

No HMD, I guess...

 

[Ultima Thule]

The debate will never end. There will always be a Chinese or a Pakistani eager to suck up who will make a claim in favor of the Chinese who will re-start the debate all over again.

Unfortunately you're right sir, ,most of us not knows the technicalities of Low observable AKA stealth

 

[yantong1980]

Unfortunately you're right sir, ,most of us not knows the technicalities of Low observable AKA stealth

Come on, there's tons of reason how each of fifth generation fighter layout designed, but overall I pretty sure that has something to do with each nations AF strategic needs or doctrines such as American that place priority on full spectrum stealth, but of course different perspectives for China and Russia. So my point was to debated all stealth characteristic of J-20 and F-22 was pointless since their created based on different standard. From my point of view, J-20 for China was first step plus minus, build J-20 mean for China can gained a lot thing of stealth characteristics, beside J-20 still has plenty room for improvement. And don't forget China's 6th generation still on waiting list.