Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

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[SME11B]

J-20 can J-16/J-11 can guide VLRAAM through AWACS without getting close to the target @SME11B

I'm saying that with an unstealthy flanker and f-35's patrolling 400km is cutting it close.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I'm saying that with an unstealthy flanker and f-35's patrolling 400km is cutting it close.

Sorry, what do you mean, idon't understand???? @SME11B

 

[SQ8]

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The cost difference comes from labor costs, material costs(todays cost for same materials used on the J-20 are much lower than similar materials for the F-22 15-18 years ago) and possible economies of scale.

 

[SME11B]

Sorry, what do you mean, idon't understand???? @SME11B

When you aren't stealthy ship radars, ground based radars and airborne radars see you from hundreds of kms. Its about the radar horizon as the limiting factor. If it is not emitting any signals to pick up and track it will stand a better chance the what I said before still applies. If f-35s are patrolling They can scan for hundreds of kms and not be seen so they control the engagement. One f-35 could chose to go active and scan and pick up contacts and risk giving away either that there is a fighter scanning or more info but then tipping off the others. The flankers can't do that against f-35. they would probably be hundreds of kms in front of a tanker or awacs and scan hundreds of kms further. If the flanker spots the target it is most likely it was spotted long ago and either being watched or about to be ambushed. Even launching at max range say 400km the awac might be able to detect the fighter or be warned by the escort f-35s or f-18s and then it becomes tail chase. Which means now the flanker needs to get closer and fly farther into enemy airspace. There is no reason f-35 should lose on paper. It can move about more or less free from detection and set up shots or coordinate others. Also how is the flanker getting target coordinates with it's radar off? If it switches on it becomes even more detectable if by luck it wasn't detected already. F-35's DAS is designed to track missiles from far off and trace their origin so other sensors can find the shooter. All I know about it's range is a ballistic missile or target was tracked by it 800 miles away. A lot of details aren't known but a big missile like that could probably be picked up by DAS alone from pretty long range. It would be tough to get in the area undetected, harder to get a max range shot, and even harder to get a closer shot more likely to hit and make it back.

KJ-200, KJ-500, and KJ-2000.

How will those defend against f-35?

 

[LKJ86]

How will those defend against f-35?

Why are you so confident in the "small" radar of a fighter aircraft, compared with AWACS?

 

[SME11B]

Why are you so confident in the "small" radar of a fighter aircraft, compared with AWACS?

Apg-81 is somewhat small but powerful and has lpi features making it harder to detect and indentify. I see figures anywhere from 150km against a 1m2 target to 400km but that would have to be in a narrow search beam. I think 200km+ is more realistic and for a larger rcs of a flanker with external stores and a big *** pl-21 hanging out there I would say 300km easily. It will see much farther than aim-120d can reach but that gives plenty of time to get into position, finish identifying or passing info and so on. APG-81 is also said to have very good electronic warfare but a lot of that is classified and it probably doesn't go much beyond X band but even that I am not sure of. I don't know the radar performance of j-10-11-15-16-20.

 

[Beast]

I don't know the radar performance of j-10-11-15-16-20.

Then how can u make a sweeping statement?

 

[Ultima Thule]

When you aren't stealthy ship radars, ground based radars and airborne radars see you from hundreds of kms. Its about the radar horizon as the limiting factor. If it is not emitting any signals to pick up and track it will stand a better chance the what I said before still applies. If f-35s are patrolling They can scan for hundreds of kms and not be seen so they control the engagement. One f-35 could chose to go active and scan and pick up contacts and risk giving away either that there is a fighter scanning or more info but then tipping off the others. The flankers can't do that against f-35. they would probably be hundreds of kms in front of a tanker or awacs and scan hundreds of kms further. If the flanker spots the target it is most likely it was spotted long ago and either being watched or about to be ambushed. Even launching at max range say 400km the awac might be able to detect the fighter or be warned by the escort f-35s or f-18s and then it becomes tail chase. Which means now the flanker needs to get closer and fly farther into enemy airspace. There is no reason f-35 should lose on paper. It can move about more or less free from detection and set up shots or coordinate others. Also how is the flanker getting target coordinates with it's radar off? If it switches on it becomes even more detectable if by luck it wasn't detected already. F-35's DAS is designed to track missiles from far off and trace their origin so other sensors can find the shooter. All I know about it's range is a ballistic missile or target was tracked by it 800 miles away. A lot of details aren't known but a big missile like that could probably be picked up by DAS alone from pretty long range. It would be tough to get in the area undetected, harder to get a max range shot, and even harder to get a closer shot more likely to hit and make it back.

I am talking about VLRAAM Fired by J-11 series of jets against enemy's tankers/AWACS and other ISR plate-forms @SME11B

 

[LKJ86]

Apg-81 is somewhat small but powerful and has lpi features making it harder to detect and indentify. I see figures anywhere from 150km against a 1m2 target to 400km but that would have to be in a narrow search beam. I think 200km+ is more realistic and for a larger rcs of a flanker with external stores and a big *** pl-21 hanging out there I would say 300km easily. It will see much farther than aim-120d can reach but that gives plenty of time to get into position, finish identifying or passing info and so on. APG-81 is also said to have very good electronic warfare but a lot of that is classified and it probably doesn't go much beyond X band but even that I am not sure of. I don't know the radar performance of j-10-11-15-16-20.

If so, will USA cancel E-3 and E-2D?

 

[Dazzler]

Refuelling probe..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1062383422793019392

 

[SME11B]

Then how can u make a sweeping statement?

I just did, I used safe assumptions based on well known unclassified data. Are you saying there is evidence the analysis is unfounded? What specifically do you doubt? Lets say i'll be a fanboy and put quantum in front of it and say it's superior to US radar. Unless they are far better or use some kind of new tech that breaks the old rules just about all of what I said would still apply because if it uses that super powerful radar it's more likely to be detected and even if it can target something at that missiles max range and even if it uses their party target data it is still a big easy to detect target. I have seen nothing to suggest chinese radars are close to catching up at this time and are probably closer to russian radars. That's my guess.

I am talking about VLRAAM Fired by J-11 series of jets against enemy's tankers/AWACS and other ISR plate-forms @SME11B

Yea, I know that's what I've been talking about. You think they will just be flying around alone?

If so, will USA cancel E-3 and E-2D?

No plans yet that I have heard but as AWACS capabilities are being increasingly taken over by 5th gen fighters and those big slow target planes start to have limited use in high end situations. They still have uses now and until another 5th gen shows up they can keep up their traditional role more or less but the trends seem clear. I don't see much plans for an awacs successor either. Those plans will be around for years more but in this most high end scenario they are vulnerable and need escorts.

 

[gambit]

No plans yet that I have heard but as AWACS capabilities are being increasingly taken over by 5th gen fighters and those big slow target planes start to have limited use in high end situations.

Not likely.

An AWACS is a wide area immediate intelligence platform for both ground and air. The radar antenna size carried by these large platforms made that intelligence gathering possible. Any fighter can use its radar and communication to gather and relay what it sees. When I was active duty, we did not have Link-16 or anything like it. We had to read the scope, key the mic, and voice what we see. Today, Link-16 and assorted data relay methods just made that process quicker and more secured, but does nothing to the reduced radar information the fighter sees. A fighter can be more focused to a particular ground or air region. But in no way does that mean any 5th-gen fighter can replace what the AWACS can do.

 

[ozranger]

Amazing climbs show J-20's high energy sustainability.