Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

But @Asok bro it might be possible that J-20 is using specialized version of WS-10 or Al-31FN3 but not WS-15, couple of pages pages back @ChineseTiger1986 stated that WS-15 completed ground testing and start air testing on IL-76 engine test-bed, so how it can be possible that J-20 is using WS-15 currently?

I have read that report. It's a typical mis/disinformation Chinese official report, designed to mislead western intelligence. It does not state which engine is undergoing test and carefully hide all other vital informations, so the report is vague and intentionally misleading. It says little and then let the West's ignorant/arrogant to do the work of mislead themselves. China have more than one engine with high TWR under development for various aircrafts. The fact is no videos have shown J-20 is "underpowered". All shows J-20 could do those amazing maneuvers without the using of afterburners, an astounding fact. I have seen that F-22, Su-27, Su-30, Su-35, T-50, F-16, Typhoon, all need to engage the afterburners for those agile moves.

 

[Maxpane]

Maneuver without afterburne =-O

 

[Deino]

@Asok I would really appreciate to calm down !

Even if the J-20 appearance at Zhuhai was indeed an amazing even t - as well as the display practicing at CAC before - it was nothing any other modern fighter could do without the use of afterburner.

In fact the nearly 60 second-display was - in comparison to other aerial displays we know from other types - even lame.

So please calm down and don't tell us You could conclude from this few seconds that it uses a WS-15, that's plain impossible. As such can we cam back to reality ?

 

[Asoka]

@Asok I would really appreciate to calm down !

Even if the J-20 appearance at Zhuhai was indeed an amazing even t - as well as the display practicing at CAC before - it was nothing any other modern fighter could do without the use of afterburner.

In fact the nearly 60 second-display was - in comparison to other aerial displays we know from other types - even lame.

So please calm down and don't tell us You could conclude from this few seconds that it uses a WS-15, that's plain impossible. As such can we cam back to reality ?

Review all other videos on youtube, and all the pictures you got of J-20, and tell me when was afterburner used.

 

[nang2]

Review all other videos on youtube, and all the pictures you got of J-20, and tell me when was afterburner used.

apparently, you didn't read the "even if" part.

 

[Asoka]

apparently, you didn't read the "even if" part.

An "underpowered" plane able to amazing moves, while not using the afterburners. And the most powerful planes like F-22 and Su-35 and T50 have to use afterburners doing similar moves.

Apparently, this significance doesn't mean anything to some people.

 

[Deino]

Review all other videos on youtube, and all the pictures you got of J-20, and tell me when was afterburner used.

No it was not, but the point is that You are hyping these - and I don't want to use the term lame - but "at least unimpressive climbs and turns as being hyper-manoeuvrable !! Come on. Did You ever see the T50 or F-22 ... and what the J-20 did can any other fighter do without AB too.

Deino

 

[Ultima Thule]

I have seen that F-22, Su-27, Su-30, Su-35, T-50, F-16, Typhoon, all need to engage the afterburners for those agile moves.

What are you talking about bro, all those fighter are capable to do same maneuver without afterburner, F-22 can't do that manueuver without afterburner are live in denial mode

An "underpowered" plane able to amazing moves, while not using the afterburners. And the most powerful planes like F-22 and Su-35 and T50 have to use afterburners doing similar moves.

Apparently, this significance doesn't mean anything to some people.

where show us? that doesn't mean J-20 is using WS-15, may be it uses higher thrust versions WS-10X or AL-31FN3 but surely not WS-15

 

[Asoka]

No it was not, but the point is that You are hyping these - and I don't want to use the term lame - but "at least unimpressive climbs and turns as being hyper-manoeuvrable !! Come on. Did You ever see the T50 or F-22 ... and what the J-20 did can any other fighter do without AB too.

Deino

Now, here you are confused, like a car going up a steep hill, it can going over a hill by just using its own momentum if its FAST enough. If it starts the hill slowly, the driver must step on the gas pedal hard.

So if a plane starts those "at least unimpressive climbs and turns" slowly, it will not able to use just its own momentum to do a vertical climb, and it must use extra power. If it can do without turning on its afterburner, its shows its military power is very high and its TWR is > 1.

I think those " hyper-manoeuvrable" moves by F-22 and T-50 you are referring to those post-install, twists and turns moves that wow the audiences at various airshow. I have been wondering why we don't see that with J-20.

In aerial combats, those moves quickly bleeds your energy and move your plane into post-install speed, those are "death-inducing" moves. Your opponents can quickly shoot you down with its gun while you are moving slowly.

So those "hyper-manoeuvrable" are very impressive with the audience, but they are laughed at by experienced pilots. You don't live very long if you pull those stunts in front of an enemy.

What are you talking about bro, all those fighter are capable to do same maneuver without afterburner, F-22 can't do that manueuver without afterburner are live in denial mode


where show us? that doesn't mean J-20 is using WS-15, may be it uses higher thrust versions WS-10X or AL-31FN3 but surely not WS-15

Yes, I have seen F-22 able to do that without afterburners, and F-22 is called the most powerful fighter in the world. While J-20 can also do that, and it's called "underpowered".

Show me a plane with WS-10X or Al-31FN3 that can do Slow Vertical Climb, Supersonic Cruise and Supersonic Maneuvers without afterburner.

If you can, I shut up for good.

 

[Deino]

I give up ... I simply give up !!

 

[Ultima Thule]

Show me a plane with WS-10X or Al-31FN3 that can do Slow Vertical Climb, Supersonic Cruise and Supersonic Maneuvers without afterburner.

bro you live in your fantasy world, too much imaginations and false assumptions @ChineseTiger1986, @cirr, @Beast and other respected Chinese military insiders clearly stated that WS-15 is in air testing mode, so how can it be it on the J-20? so i believe on them not in you, you're newbie on this forum,you have too much false assumptions under your belt , why you insisting that J-20 is using WS-15 just in your wishful thinking as for your information typhoon, RAFALE and Su-35 can super-cruise without afterburner with limited air to air loadout

 

[Asoka]

bro you live in your fantasy world, too much imaginations and false assumptions @ChineseTiger1986, @cirr, @Beast and other respected Chinese military insiders clearly stated that WS-15 is in air testing mode, so how can it be it on the J-20? so i believe on them not in you, you're newbie on this forum,you have too much false assumptions under your belt , why you insisting that J-20 is using WS-15 just in your wishful thinking as for your information typhoon, RAFALE and Su-35 can super-cruise without afterburner with limited air to air loadout

I asked for an example of a plane with an WS-10x or AL-31FN engine that could Slow Vertical Climb, Supersonic Cruise and Supersonic Maneuvers without afterburner. Is "typhoon, RAFALE and Su-35" all using WS-10x or AL-31FN engine?

I didn't know that.

Are they also labeled as "underpowered" like J-20?

If not, why is J-20, the only one called "underpowered"?

What is your evidences that J-20 is ever "underpowered", other than you presumption?

Show me the evidence that J-20 is "underpowered" or it is not using WS-15 already. Your presumption need proofs to establish too. You can't state your assumption without any proof and then ask proof of other people with different conclusion.

Here in Wikipedia, it says Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen NG could also Supercruise:

But they are not stealth fighters, they must carry extra fuel tanks and weapons externally. That increases a lot of drag. So unless they are carrying combat loading while Supercruise without afterburner, its meaningless.

Just marketing hype.

And can they perform sustained Supersonic maneuvers under combat loading?

 

[Ultima Thule]

I ask an example of a plane with an WS-10x or AL-31FN engine that could Slow Vertical Climb, Supersonic Cruise and Supersonic Maneuvers without afterburner. Is typhoon, RAFALE and Su-35" all using WS-10x or AL-31FN engine? I didn't know that.

are you insane or something it clearly believe on @ChineseTiger1986 ,@cirr ,@Beast and other respected, senior Chinese stated that "J-20 is not with the WS-15 currently" and i am answering to your this quote
I have seen that F-22, Su-27, Su-30, Su-35, T-50, F-16, Typhoon, all need to engage the afterburners for those agile moves.for your post# 7157 you are an idiot

 

[Deino]

I asked for an example of a plane with an WS-10x or AL-31FN engine that could Slow Vertical Climb, Supersonic Cruise and Supersonic Maneuvers without afterburner. ...

We have no images seen but we also have not seen any video - and especially not at Zhuhai - that the J-20 did anything super-manoeuvrable, super-sonic ... nothing was super but it's appearance.

Simply take it as a fact that display was a show of confidence, nothing more. There was nothing special and as such nothing to deduct anything in regard to a hyper-super WS-15. Period.

As such I beg You simply to end this here right now. ... or to take away whatever You are smoking.

Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

are you insane or something it clearly believe on @ChineseTiger1986 ,@cirr ,@Beast and other respected, senior Chinese stated that "J-20 is not with the WS-15 currently" and i am answering to your this quote
I have seen that F-22, Su-27, Su-30, Su-35, T-50, F-16, Typhoon, all need to engage the afterburners for those agile moves.for your post# 7157 you are an idiot

The current engine that the J-20 uses isn't the "full blooded " WS-15, but it has many aspects of the WS-15.