Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[jhungary]

Or you run out of reason? USAF think with the era of BVRAAM. Close range fighting will be rare. This is clearly demonstrated in their F-4 fighter which absent of gun.

But IFF problem and not so matured BVRAAM hindered the so called BVRAAM combat and many fighting still occur within WVR in the 60s and 70s but since the 90s , IFF problem solved and the great advance of BVRAAM technology may finally render most fighting in BVR. Gun is not neccessary but just a backup.

dude, saying missile will take the lead and gun would be on back up is the same as saying bomb is not needed in modern ground support as most of the tine missile do the job anyway.

you missed one very important aspect, that nothing is less importany and everything is doing their job, thats why stuff works

What you are saying is a world in perfect harmony, where everything work in your favors, but in real world, war never happen tge way you wanted, hence for every system you need to have a failproof back up.

Now imagine you are a J20 pilot, would you trust your 6 or so missile that they wont missed? Or what happened if you face 7 planes alone in the sky?

 

[gambit]

I dont think gun is relevant in modern aerial warfare. How many fighter has shot down by fighter guns since 1990?

I hope the PLAAF will be infected my people like you. We learned our lesson with the gunless F-4.

Your question is misleading. The main reason why not so many gun kills recently is because the data is skewed by US, meaning we achieved air supremacy so quickly that no one can challenge US long enough to have gun engagements.

A fighter pilot in EM silent mode coming up behind his target using only his cannon is the scariest thing in the sky. There are many situations where you do not want to use your missiles and being EM silent is one of them. Another is when there is a need for absolute identification and nothing beat eyeballing the target, so when you are this close, going AB and have your gun reticle on target is faster than arming missiles and waiting for it to acquire guidance instructions from your radar.

The gun, or more accurately the cannon if the caliber is or larger than 20 mm, is a weapon of last resort, meaning when there are times when you feel a missile can be spoofed, or when the environment is not cooperating with your sensors that the missile relies upon, or when the target deployed plenty of countermeasures.

The J-20 is allegedly an 'interceptor' and what does an interceptor do after he arrives in the area ? He attempts to make as positive identification of his target(s) as possible. That mean he will would spend some time shadowing his target(s) at different distances. The gun is most appropriate at these times.

 

[Beast]

dude, saying missile will take the lead and gun would be on back up is the same as saying bomb is not needed in modern ground support as most of the tine missile do the job anyway.

you missed one very important aspect, that nothing is less importany and everything is doing their job, thats why stuff works

What you are saying is a world in perfect harmony, where everything work in your favors, but in real world, war never happen tge way you wanted, hence for every system you need to have a failproof back up.

Now imagine you are a J20 pilot, would you trust your 6 or so missile that they wont missed? Or what happened if you face 7 planes alone in the sky?

If I am a J-20 pilot needing a situation where I need guns to do my engagement. I am as good as dead.

 

[Superboy]

Missiles miss like 9 times out of 10. Most of air to air kills are gun kills in dog fights. Don't believe in stealth BVR. That's just LM's marketing strategy for F-22.

 

[DrSomnath999]

If I am a J-20 pilot needing a situation where I need guns to do my engagement. I am as good as dead.

i have been seeing your POV regarding guns in this thread for quite a sometime but tell u what you POV damn ridiculous

you may be correct about WVR missiles capabilty in comparision to in built Guns

but the fact still remains GUN would still be required not only for combat purpose but many other functions too

1) missiles can be carried out in limited numbers by plane especially in an extensive or mutiple enemies scenario you might ran out of missilesespecially in WVR range warfare

so gun would be your last resort of offence against those enemies

2) you have to use sometimes guns to scare off /send some signals to any airplane pilots which may have violated air space so that to force him to land nearby to interrogate him for the reason for air space violation

3) in an era of advanced MAWS & self protection suite sometimes launching an IR guided missile from behind also cant guarantee you a kill during extreme close aerial combat
so gun shots cant be dodged if few hits do manage to be get hit on the plane it can can cause some serious damage to the plane & may eventually lead to plane's crash

SO still pilots practise gun kill during basic fighter manuveurs during their training


CHEERS

 

[Beast]

you have to use sometimes guns to scare off /send some signals to any airplane pilots which may have violated air space so that to force him to land nearby to interrogate him for the reason for air space violation

I seriously doubt any countries would send a high tech classify 5th gen fighter for air space enforcement..

 

[siegecrossbow]

I am positive that the production version will have a gun (likely in the dorsal region). I don't think they installed it on the current prototype yet.

 

[DrSomnath999]

I seriously doubt any countries would send a high tech classify 5th gen fighter for air space enforcement..

my post was not exclusively for a specific gen plane it's for all combat airplanes



CHEERS

I am positive that the production version will have a gun (likely in the dorsal region). I don't think they installed it on the current prototype yet.

Ni hao
bro

good to see you back

& happy new year

This year is year of sheep according to chinese calender:p

CHEERS

 

[Deino]

@ DrSomnath999

Sorry that I did not reply to Your question on me. Sadly I can't find a way to answer You by a personal message here on this board but You are correct.

Cheers,
Deino

 

[DrSomnath999]

@ DrSomnath999

Sorry that I did not reply to Your question on me. Sadly I can't find a way to answer You by a personal message here on this board but You are correct.

Cheers,
Deino

hello mr andreas

glad you are part of this forum

Happy new year





CHEERS

 

[Deino]

hello mr andreas

glad you are part of this forum

Happy new year

CHEERS

Thanks a lot - and sorry for posting off-topic - ... but from where do You know me and even more, is there a way to communicate via PM on this forum, I can't find a way to post a personnel note or message. !??

Happy new year and all the best to You too ...

Deino

 

[DrSomnath999]

Thanks a lot - and sorry for posting off-topic - ... but from where do You know me and even more, is there a way to communicate via PM on this forum, I can't find a way to post a personnel note or message. !??

Happy new year and all the best to You too ...

Deino

thanks sir

es spielt keine Rolle, wie ich weiß, Sie Sir

Sie Ihre Antworten in Ihrem Profil selbst Beiträge verfassen können

CHEERS

 

[Viper0011.]

That doesn't mean others shall have. Let me ask you again , how many fighter shot down by fighter guns since Vietnam war? .

In Vietnam war, the US pilots resorted to engage Migs through WVR and from distant due to their strategy but there were still gun kills. But since then, there have been plenty of Gun Kills across the globe.

If you are looking at the US engagements across the globe and trying to determine "gun kills", you are looking at the wrong picture. Our strategy isn't to engage the enemy at close distance one by one. We establish air dominance and practically put in a no fly zone no matter how many fighters the adversary has. So when the other party has little to no chance of flying their sir assets to challenge the US military....how would they ever get to gun kills?

The F-22 is built on a similar concept, yet with a gun as an emergency option in case there is a Dog Fight. But its primary role is to disrupt and destroy enemy formations in bulk, before any US air assets can be exposed to the enemy. If a squadron on intercept is destroyed 60-75% by two -22's, way before the -15's or -18's get closer to the "left over" interceptors....what do you think the interceptors will be doing? More than likely, they'll be low on fuel, with moral destroyed, trying to run away from the invisible ghost that just destroyed 15 out of 20 jets! But if there was no -22 or a BVR doctrine, the regular jets would probably still get into a dog fight, specially if both parties were located in a close proximity.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Note the addition of a 'sawtooth pattern' on the canards.

Also note the sawtooth pattern on the trailing edge of the Rafale's canards.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Enjoy.

F-35