Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Beast]

Is the J-20 the only fighter jet using this missile rail design. If so, then I'll clap for those designers. This makes the J-20 one of the most stealthiest plane today, if I'm right.

The missile rail is not much on stealth but rather far superior aerodynamic when dogfight.

 

[Persian Achaemenid Empire]

Tears almost came to my eyes when I first saw this plane.

Not long ago the westerns were treating Chinese in such a bad manner, matter of fact they were treating all easterners like that. treating non western as if easterners are subhumans.
Now look at our Chinese Brothers and sisters, advancing at such a rate that the west doesn't know what to do.

As son long as Iran, china continue to grow, the west will be kicked out of the east.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

I'm interesting by the lead time for both aircrafts to open and to close the bay door, and the duration of target acquisition for AIM-9M/X (= duration of which the bay door of F-22 is opened, which would not be the case for J-20).

Thank you,

Henri K.

Most modern missiles like AIM9X block2 have LOAL capability. With such missiles, F22 and F35 only need to open the bay and fire the missile. J20 on the other hand will have to rotate the rail system to get the missile out of the bay that itself will take more time. It will then close the bay and then fire the missile. Check out the video, the flying J20 is carrying the missile on the rail just like a conventional plane carries it on its wing pylons.

 

[gambit]

When you need to open that SRAAM bay for dogfight. Does stealth and RCS matter already? Only drag and performances matter in dogfight. F-22 with its door bay open will create massive drag. While j-20 with only missile dangling will have less drag.

I take it you speak from extensive personal experience?

 

[Beast]

Most modern missiles like AIM9X block2 have LOAL capability. With such missiles, F22 and F35 only need to open the bay and fire the missile. J20 on the other hand will have to rotate the rail system to get the missile out of the bay that itself will take more time. It will then close the bay and then fire the missile. Check out the video, the flying J20 is carrying the missile on the rail just like a conventional plane carries it on its wing pylons.

I do not see a problem for J-20. J-20 can open its SRAAM bay and standby its missile with its door bay close back when it known its going to near enter a dogfight without the penalty of drag since the design is so clean without its door bay open all the way in process of steep manoevring or dogfight.

Let me ask back you one question, have you seen F-22 when making a steep climb or steep turn firing its SRAAM? All the video I have seen F-22 when firing SRAAM is when its in stable flight straight line condition.

J-20 with its clever design will just work like a normal pylon weapon hanging fighter without the penalty of extra drag.

 

[hk299792458]

Most modern missiles like AIM9X block2 have LOAL capability. With such missiles, F22 and F35 only need to open the bay and fire the missile. J20 on the other hand will have to rotate the rail system to get the missile out of the bay that itself will take more time. It will then close the bay and then fire the missile. Check out the video, the flying J20 is carrying the missile on the rail just like a conventional plane carries it on its wing pylons.

LOAL capacity of 4th generation short range AAM mainly comes from the infrared imagery (InSb) seeker, but this remains in most of the case theoretical. In pratice pilots still need to lock on before launching.

That's the reason for why LAU-141/A is designed like this to enable and to facilitate the tracking of IR seeker.

No information concerned the speed of side bay opening and closing of J-20, and I'm interesting on the same information on F-22. Before having these informations, all comparisons are subjectives.

IMO, this are only two different ways to use the side bay, I don't think one is better than the other.

Henri K.

 

[hk299792458]

The Chinese can try it, but it is not going to help. It is an overly complex solution to an imaginary problem to start.


Right...

The article said...


How long is that 'certain amount of time'? And given how much exposed rail/missile combination contribute to RCS, what make you think that this contraption is any better WHILE IT IS EXPOSED ?

Critical thinking...???

Once again, it is not an imaginary issue but just not unsolvable.

LM has done a lot of tests during the DT&E phase, 70 launching have been carried out with 4002, 4003, 4005 and 4007. Engineers have built up database on static pressure, dynamic pressure, sound pressure, ammunition AoA, ammunition location and geometry...etc while the bay door is opened.

For example, when F-22A opens it's main weapon bay in transonic phase, the shockwave located in the front and at the end of the bay creates 170dB of sound pressure (equivalent to the sound pressure mesured at 1m away from a F-15 flying with full afterburner), and this induces a 50-60Hz vibration to the structure, which is closed to the resonance frequence of the aircraft structure, which may damage the structure.

USAF has spent more than 5 years to integrate AIM-120 to F-22's internal weapon bay, more than 100 launch tests done, before being able to establish the correct launch envelope.

I've read in a technical article than RCS or IR signature is not the main issue of internal weapon bay, but all physical impacts on the aircraft and also to the missile itself during the opening of the door are critical.

Henri K.

 

[gambit]

Once again, it is not an imaginary issue but just not unsolvable.

LM has done a lot of tests during the DT&E phase, 70 launching have been carried out with 4002, 4003, 4005 and 4007. Engineers have built up database on static pressure, dynamic pressure, sound pressure, ammunition AoA, ammunition location and geometry...etc while the bay door is opened.

For example, when F-22A opens it's main weapon bay in transonic phase, the shockwave located in the front and at the end of the bay creates 170dB of sound pressure (equivalent to the sound pressure mesured at 1m away from a F-15 flying with full afterburner), and this induces a 50-60Hz vibration to the structure, which is closed to the resonance frequence of the aircraft structure, which may damage the structure.

USAF has spent more than 5 years to integrate AIM-120 to F-22's internal weapon bay, more than 100 launch tests done, before being able to establish the correct launch envelope.

I've read in a technical article than RCS or IR signature is not the main issue of internal weapon bay, but all physical impacts on the aircraft and also to the missile itself during the opening of the door are critical.

Henri K.

Already met and dealt with...

Evaluation of F-111 Weapon Bay Aero-Acoustic and Weapon Separation Improvement Techniques

Abstract : Several aero-acoustic suppression devices have been evaluated which were considered feasible for installation on an F-111 aircraft for flight test evaluation. The most promising modification consists of a saw tooth spoiler mounted at the leading edge of the weapon bay. This device would be erected to a 90 degree position during the bay doors opening sequence. The spoiler is folded flush with the fuselage during all other flight conditions. Wind tunnel tests have shown that this spoiler improves the aero-acoustic environment within the open weapon bay and improves the weapon separation characteristics over the Mach range of .95 to 1.3 investigated during the drop test phase.

And weapons bay delivery on the F-111 was even longer because of its bomb, not missile, load. It was when we decided to make the -111 a full deep strike nuclear delivery platform with greater variety and larger bombs that the weapons bay was not used.

 

[gambit]

I do not see a problem for J-20. J-20 can open its SRAAM bay and standby its missile with its door bay close back when it known its going to near enter a dogfight without the penalty of drag since the design is so clean without its door bay open all the way in process of steep manoevring or dogfight.

Let me ask back you one question, have you seen F-22 when making a steep climb or steep turn firing its SRAAM? All the video I have seen F-22 when firing SRAAM is when its in stable flight straight line condition.

J-20 with its clever design will just work like a normal pylon weapon hanging fighter without the penalty of extra drag.

You make it sound as if once the weapons bay is exposed: WHAM-O !!! As if a drag chute is deployed, the pilot got thrown forward, and the aircraft struggled to stay airborne.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Someone explain why this is a good idea.

The F-22, a very loose analogue for the J-20 (emphasize very) uses a canted trapeze that pushes the AIM-9′s seeker out into the air-stream for proper establishment of a lock before launch once the bay doors are swung open. Only once the missile has acquired a target and the pilot “receives tone” (the AIM-9 series has an audible growl as it hunts for a heat source, once it finds one it goes from an intermittent growling sound to a solid tone, cueing the pilot to fire) the missile can be fired and only then do the launch bay doors close up. This method increases the F-22′s stealth signature dramatically while also disturbing the airflow around the jet which makes for lower performance and a rougher ride during close in air combat maneuvering, or dogfighting.

CHINESE AIR COMBAT UPDATE: J-20′S WACKY RAILS & TERMINATOR FLANKERS | aviationintel

 

[gambit]

Someone explain why this is a good idea.

CHINESE AIR COMBAT UPDATE: J-20′S WACKY RAILS & TERMINATOR FLANKERS | aviationintel

How about this probability (not possibility)...

The J-20's engineers had to come up with such a complex solution because the J-20 is not as 'stealthy' as its technically inexperienced and ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest and biased Internet proponents tried to portrayed it. If radar is the issue, then there will be a flash when the J-20's weapons bay door opened/closed, a sharp rise in RCS while the missile is exposed, and another flash when the same door opened/closed again to retract the rail.

How is that any better than a door that is opened only for a few seconds at max?

 

[Beast]

How about this probability (not possibility)...

The J-20's engineers had to come up with such a complex solution because the J-20 is not as 'stealthy' as its technically inexperienced and ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest and biased Internet proponents tried to portrayed it. If radar is the issue, then there will be a flash when the J-20's weapons bay door opened/closed, a sharp rise in RCS while the missile is exposed, and another flash when the same door opened/closed again to retract the rail.

How is that any better than a door that is opened only for a few seconds at max?

When you go dogfight , does it matter of RCS? The opponent can already see you.

 

[cnleio]

Someone explain why this is a good idea.

The launch flames of AIM-9 missile will harm F-22's body and damage microwave absorbing coating.

 

[hk299792458]

March 27th...

Henri K.

 

[gambit]

When you go dogfight , does it matter of RCS? The opponent can already see you.

Still need radar information for missile and gun solutions.