Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Tiqiu]

Dont' divert and recognize your error in the original point which, I remind once again what you said to @Deino, which is FALSE :

What a pull shit ( you just used it in your post, so you should know the meaning)you are. I just said to you I will stick to "But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day one."

If you are so confident that I am wrong, then why don't you just man up for once and answer my question: did Mr.De say "“We did develope PESA. For instance, J-10 is equipted with PESA.”? Or is it true "Therefore, the only fighter that is equiped with PESA fire control radar ought to be J-10B"

I am sure will be able to come up with other excuses not to answer again. Please surprise me just for once, would you?

I can see you really enjoy making empty threats again and again. I already gave you my answer to all your ultimatums.

But if you want to continue this game, be sure that I'll be here. For the time being I've a lot of time to lose.

But it's ok, if it is too hard for you to read those kind of thing, I can understand.

Don't worry, this game can last for years... Ready ?

Henri K.

Very pleased to continue with you, young boy of 40 years-old... At least I got a lot of fun.

Well, I didn't want to end you up that quick, as you bring me a lot of fun

Have a good night, and see you next time for another funny topic.

As far as you didn't admit your initial error, our conversation can last for years and years. And I will remind in each conversation the same point.

Henri K.

And, as far as you didn't admit your initial error, our conversation can last for years and years. And I will remind in each conversation the same point.

Henri K.

You claimed that you receive and read all those professional articles in Chinese language daily; you even wrote a long reply in Chinese to prove you have an excellent Chinese language skills, and perhaps in a way to offer truce(I maybe wrong but you did give me some friendly advice and asked me whether I am a developer) ; But I think you Chinese sucks. You accused me adding new words "for instance" to my original translation of the caption words on the image( I did not put it in my original translation because I did not think it would have a material effect).

And I find you funny that you now try to protect yourself by adding a new word : "for instance".

Now tell me what did he say?

You and your fanboys are trying to portray some of us as a bunch of fanboys attacking you Chinese language skills when you point out the fact to us. But if you base all your arguments on the Chinese experts words in Chinses to against me, then of course I have to make sure you understand what is the true meaning of their sayings. Everybody lived in China knows government officials are very careful in using words - a different use of one particular word ( may have the same meaning in English) meaning very differently in some occasion - an delicate wording arts referred as eight part essay style八股文.

In this case Mr De did not say we developed PESA, he said we did PESA; he did not say J-10 is equipped with PESA, he said we used to use it on J-10. So if China studied those 2 PESA radars supplied by Russian and put it on J-10 for testing, He could say the exactly the same lines that "we did PESA, for instance J-10 used to use it"

So now you know why people like me challenging your Chinese language skills because you kept making silly statement about what Mr.De said that in fact he didn't say.

So, at least you admit the FACT that CETC had developped PESA ? So I accepted that you've recognized your initial error.

You can prove me wrong and make me admit my mistakes just by simply tell me when did he say we developed PESA, or just give me the bloody model name or images of this China-developed PESA.

 

[j20blackdragon]

J-10 prototype 1003 engine nozzle color has changed, and a metal support frame has been added to the rear fuselage around the nozzle. The aft tail boom structure even had to be lengthened to accommodate the metal support frame.

1004 garnered the most attention because it was re-engined to WS-10. But my question is not about 1004.

It is obvious these old prototypes are still being used for various testing purposes.

Questions:

1. Why did the engine nozzle color change on 1003?

2. What is the purpose of the metal support frame around the nozzle?

 

[hk299792458]

What a pull shit ( you just used it in your post, so you should know the meaning)you are. I just said to you I will stick to "But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day one."

If you are so confident that I am wrong, then why don't you just man up for once and answer my question: did Mr.De say "“We did develope PESA. For instance, J-10 is equipted with PESA.”? Or is it true "Therefore, the only fighter that is equiped with PESA fire control radar ought to be J-10B"

I am sure will be able to come up with other excuses not to answer again. Please surprise me just for once, would you?

I can see you really enjoy making empty threats again and again. I already gave you my answer to all your ultimatums.
















You claimed that you receive and read all those professional articles in Chinese language daily; you even wrote a long reply in Chinese to prove you have an excellent Chinese language skills, and perhaps in a way to offer truce(I maybe wrong but you did give me some friendly advice and asked me whether I am a developer) ; But I think you Chinese sucks. You accused me adding new words "for instance" to my original translation of the caption words on the image( I did not put it in my original translation because I did not think it would have a material effect).


Now tell me what did he say?

You and your fanboys are trying to portray some of us as a bunch of fanboys attacking you Chinese language skills when you point out the fact to us. But if you base all your arguments on the Chinese experts words in Chinses to against me, then of course I have to make sure you understand what is the true meaning of their sayings. Everybody lived in China knows government officials are very careful in using words - a different use of one particular word ( may have the same meaning in English) meaning very differently in some occasion - an delicate wording arts referred as eight part essay style八股文.

In this case Mr De did not say we developed PESA, he said we did PESA; he did not say J-10 is equipped with PESA, he said we used to use it on J-10. So if China studied those 2 PESA radars supplied by Russian and put it on J-10 for testing, He could say the exactly the same lines that "we did PESA, for instance J-10 used to use it"

So now you know why people like me challenging your Chinese language skills because you kept making silly statement about what Mr.De said that in fact he didn't say.


You can prove me wrong and make me admit my mistakes just by simply tell me when did he say we developed PESA, or just give me the bloody model name or images of this China-developed PESA.

I will provide you one element per week, and this can last for months and for years, untill you recognize your error in the original point which, I remind once again what you said to @Deino, which is FALSE :

But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day one.

So, week 1, I will give you even a bonus with 2 elements. Guess what is written in these 2 documents from CETC 14th ?

You can prove me wrong and make me admit my mistakes just by simply tell me

No, I refused to do it simply. Since you started to speak in such a "funny way" to me and to 星海, you started this game with me. Just play it and enjoy till the end.

I promise you that this can last for very, very, very long time.

Henri K.

 

[Deino]

J-10 prototype 1003 engine nozzle color has changed, and a metal support frame has been added to the rear fuselage around the nozzle. The aft tail boom structure even had to be lengthened to accommodate the metal support frame.

1004 garnered the most attention because it was re-engined to WS-10. But my question is not about 1004.

It is obvious these old prototypes are still being used for various testing purposes.

Questions:

1. Why did the engine nozzle color change on 1003?

2. What is the purpose of the metal support frame around the nozzle?

Again ... time of use and most of all these planes are no longer in use, these are old images !

 

[3jiL]

Hi
I have 3 question
Before asked
Again asking
Why j10C no MAW ?
And
Have Chengdu j10 family any Israeli component ?
And
B and C version's of j-10 how many improved range and specifications from A version ?
Tnx ) ) ) )

 

[Tiqiu]

I will provide you one element per week, and this can last for months and for years, untill you recognize your error in the original point which, I remind once again what you said to @Deino, which is FALSE :

So, week 1, I will give you even a bonus with 2 elements. Guess what is written in these 2 documents from CETC 14th ?

No, I refused to do it simply. Since you started to speak in such a "funny way" to me and to 星海, you started this game with me. Just play it and enjoy till the end.

I promise you that this can last for very, very, very long time.

Henri K.

Let's define "funny" first so that we can talk in a normal and professional manner in the future.

It is funny that on one hand you have been using a Chinese expert vague words on the commercial TV to refute me here, but on another hand you kept saying "Even in the case that J-20 uses any WS-10 variant (today I don't believe a word on it)" and "In the case that J-20 uses AL-31FN like engine, that I still suppose today" at J-20 thread yesterday, even the Chinese General and others were expressively stating the J-20 was equipped with the home- made engines on the only government TV channel CCTV.

It is funny after making these statements later challenged by me "这里说没有搞无源相控阵，指的是机载预警雷达没搞无源相控阵，并非机载火控雷达没搞无源相控阵" "We did develope PESA. For instance, J-10 is equipted with PESA.”"Therefore, the only fighter that is equiped with PESA fire control radar ought to be J-10B",you are the only one here left doing defense.

It is funny when I told you China had got at least two models of PESA radars supplied by Russia from verifiable public record, you refrained your self from talking the possibilities that those two Russian PESA radars might be used on J-10 for testing, instead, you tried to prove you already knew it by this incorrect statement "P.S. I see that you know at least copy an old post from 小飞猪 dated 2012 ? You see, you started to do some information research. Go ahead, you can nearly proof that your initial point is FALSE."

It is funny you called me "copy an old post from 小飞猪 ", then what should people call you who lived on a daily bases writing something solely based on the copied images from Chinese websites and may be PDF here?

It is funny you are still relying on your scare campaign "I promise you that this can last for very, very, very long time" assuming only you could afford to do it whereas others can't due to time/financial situations, even i have proved you I can take on your challenge till now and perhaps till many many many years to come.

It is funny you tried to convince me you have an outstanding Chinese language skills and know more info or materials about China's military affairs, perhaps you have insider friends, but why couldn't you be able to answer the recent question about J-10B regiment raised by @Deino? I don't have insider friends but I know which/where/how many about it from open sources.

So if you want to talk normal, do so. If you want to play "game",do so.

 

[hk299792458]

If you want to play "game",do so.

So, let's play. And I can promise you a lot of fun in the coming years.

Let's start with the first point :

But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day one.

See ? We still come back to the starting point. Don't try to divert because you will discover week after week, step by step, that you're wrong since the begining.

Did you enjoy the last two image ? I doubt if you know where they comme from, you that need to switch on the TV and "learn" funny things from CCTV-4 TV show.

Personally I would only advise CCTV-2 economic reports, CCTV-7 daily military news, CCTV-10 documentaries, and even JS7TV every day. But you know, it's up to you. I know exactly what kind of "sources" bring you to this stage.

Next week you will discover another element, the an another one the week after...etc...etc.

Henri K.

 

[帅的一匹]

Ying Zhuo is a reliable source.

 

[Tiqiu]

So, let's play. And I can promise you a lot of fun in the coming years.

Let's start with the first point :



See ? We still come back to the starting point. Don't try to divert because you will discover week after week, step by step, that you're wrong since the begining.

Did you enjoy the last two image ? I doubt if you know where they comme from, you that need to switch on the TV and "learn" funny things from CCTV-4 TV show.

Personally I would only advise CCTV-2 economic reports, CCTV-7 daily military news, CCTV-10 documentaries, and even JS7TV every day. But you know, it's up to you. I know exactly what kind of "sources" bring you to this stage.

Next week you will discover another element, the an another one the week after...etc...etc.

Henri K.

OK, let me tell you again let's play. So don't act like an old woman or a 10-year-old boy repeating the same threat every time.

I ll tell you the 3rd time that "But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day on".

It was you who demonstrated to every body watching here that you are too timid to answer any of my question in every time.

I finally witnessed how phoney can one became. For instance:

You quoted an image of the nameplate "J-10B AESA radar" (behind it can be any those two Russian PESA radars like ZHUK-MSFE or NIIP PERO) from the meyet site which you disapproved

Meyet...

Henri K.

You fully relied on your argument on Mr.De's words but you did not give a jack to what Ying zhou said about J-20's Chinese engine.

Even in the case that J-20 uses any WS-10 variant (today I don't believe a word on it), it means you need at least 90 engines per year if you produce 72 aircraft. If today it is already not the case with all Shenyang produced aircrafts, what make us believe that on top of that they can produce 72 to 90 additional engines ?

In the case that J-20 uses AL-31FN like engine, that I still suppose today, one needs to have information on how many engines have been orderd, and how many left today.

You tried to impress me of your Chinese language skills by that long relay in Chinese(few purposely made mistakes therein made me feel that your Chinese mate wrote it for you), but you couldn't even get the simply baidu search right.

P.S. I see that you know at least copy an old post from 小飞猪 dated 2012 ?

I am starting to see the drive behind your desire to prolong this conversation as long as you can. This is a more effective advertising campaign for your site,isn't it?

Anyway, as I said before, if you enjoy, I enjoy it too. I am a fan of "Too much time on my hands"

Ying Zhuo is a reliable source.

But not to Henri K who is very selective.
That is why I said he is a pseudo journalist at best.

 

[jkroo]

Sigh, there's something comprehension error. What Tiqiu insists is so simple that he didn't denied the PESA has tetsted on J10 but J10C's AESA is not upgraded from J10B's PESA. What J10B equiped is AESA.

 

[Tiqiu]

Sigh, there's something comprehension error. What Tiqiu insists is so simple that he didn't denied the PESA has tetsted on J10 but J10C's AESA is not upgraded from J10B's PESA. What J10B equiped is AESA.

Thank you very much my friend. I think you would understand the frustration and disbelief I got when this guy tried to teach me how to interpret the short and vague sentences in Chinese in order to reconstruct the whole picture as accurate as it can be.

In short, in China any project involving the Govt needs the government approval to get enlisted status in the development plan(立项批准) based on the feasibility study and development proposal(论证和方案 )before going ahead or getting funds from the Government.( I maybe wrong since I left for nearly 30 yrs). Any individual or institute can do what every study or R&D they want, but without approval status, it is no development from the official point of view. That is why I asked him to provide the model name so we can track if it is enlisted or not.

 

[Deino]

Maybe we can make arest of this discussion since it seemas as both of You won't persuade the other one !??

Back to the topic ... first time an PL-10 spotted under an operational J-10AS. However that serial number makes no sense ???

 

[Deino]

...Back to the topic ... first time an PL-10 spotted under an operational J-10AS. However that serial number makes no sense ???

Stupid me !!! This appears to be an early design of the PL-10 or even a concurring design if You compare it with the current one which has different rear fins ...

... so it is a much older design and image and as such the serial makes sense again !!

Deino

 

[hk299792458]

OK, let me tell you again let's play. So don't act like an old woman or a 10-year-old boy repeating the same threat every time.

I ll tell you the 3rd time that "But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day on".

It was you who demonstrated to every body watching here that you are too timid to answer any of my question in every time.

I finally witnessed how phoney can one became. For instance:

You quoted an image of the nameplate "J-10B AESA radar" (behind it can be any those two Russian PESA radars like ZHUK-MSFE or NIIP PERO) from the meyet site which you disapproved


You fully relied on your argument on Mr.De's words but you did not give a jack to what Ying zhou said about J-20's Chinese engine.


You tried to impress me of your Chinese language skills by that long relay in Chinese(few purposely made mistakes therein made me feel that your Chinese mate wrote it for you), but you couldn't even get the simply baidu search right.


I am starting to see the drive behind your desire to prolong this conversation as long as you can. This is a more effective advertising campaign for your site,isn't it?

Anyway, as I said before, if you enjoy, I enjoy it too. I am a fan of "Too much time on my hands"


But not to Henri K who is very selective.
That is why I said he is a pseudo journalist at best.

Be patient, you will see one more element next week, and an another one the week after, and till the end you will find yourself how FALSE is what you pretended that :

But J-10B never used PESA; it used AESA from the day on

I promised you a very very long game, a game throught which you will discover week after week, step by setp, your own error. Since the first time you managed your words in a silly way to me, you started the game. It's me who fixe the rule of the game now, not you.

I could, let's say, give you answer in 5 quotes, clearly showing that J-10B entered into service with PESA radar. But you know, French people says : "On va faire durer le plaisir".

By the way, you didn't tell me if you enjoy the first two elements I show you. If you don't understan now, don't worry, you will be a day.

See you next week on this topic.

Henri K.

 

[Tiqiu]

Back to the topic ... first time an PL-10 spotted under an operational J-10AS. However that serial number makes no sense ???

It makes sense to me.

Maybe we can make arest of this discussion since it seemas as both of You won't persuade the other one !??

I knew he could not be persuaded as soon as he refused to answer any of my questions and kept asking the same again and again. As the issue of PESA vs AESA is a very relevant point to J-10, also he dragged you into it by mentioning your name,so I will try for one more time to prove my point.

I said to you "But J-10B never used PESA;It used AESA from the day one" in our discussion about " is J-10C the result of AESA upgrading from the already- equipped PESA on J-10B?" So clearly were talking about whether J-10B is equipped with PESA or not, not about whether J-10B has tested PESA or not, do you agree?

To back my claim, I quote the interview from the Deputy chief designer of AWACS & researcher at China Electronic Technology Group Corporation published on <<Ordnance Knowledge>> 2012.1 addition:

目前世界上机载雷达普遍往有源相控阵方向发展，无论是预警机上的机载预警雷达还是战斗机上的机载火控雷达，都是这样，这两个领域是机载雷达最主要的领域。我国以机载预警雷达为突破口，实现了机载雷达装备从机械扫描到有源相控阵的跨越，没有搞无源相控阵，在世界上首次装备二维有源相控阵预警雷达，也就是说雷达波束在水平方向上和高度方向上都能电子扫描，由此也带动了战斗机火控雷达装备采用有源相控阵。

This is my translation, any Chinese member is welcomed to correct any error and I will be very appreciated.
"At present in the world, it has become a common trend that airborne radars are developed towards the direction of an Active Electronically Scanned Array, it is so either for airborne early warning radars, or for airborne fire control radars, both of which are the main field of airborne radars 。Using the development of airborne early warning radar as a breaking point, our country achieved the leap forward from mechanically-scanned to AESA for our airborne radar system, without developing PESA, became the first country in the world to equip a two-dimensional AESA for early waring & control, in other words the radar wave can scan horizontally and vertically, which drove the use of the AESA on fighter jets。"

This is how I paraphrased his words to derive my claim.
"At present in the world, it has become a common trend that airborne radars are developed towards the direction of an Active Electronically Scanned Array, it is so either for airborne early warning radars, or for airborne fire control radars, both of which are the main field of airborne radars 。( Clearly he was talking about both airborne warning radars and airborne fire control radars) Using the development of airborne early warning radar as a breaking point, (Again he wouldn't need to mention it if he meant to talk about airborne warning radars alone) our country achieved the leap forward from mechanically-scanned to AESA for our airborne radar system(He didn't say for our airborne warning radars system; he said for airborne radars system - thus including airborne fire control radar), without developing PESA, became the first country in the world to equip a two-dimensional AESA for early waring & control,( He did not mention fire control radars here either because at that time 5 yrs ago he was not at liberty to talk about it , or simply it was not the main topic of the interview) in other words the radar wave can scan horizontally and vertically, which drove the use of the AESA on fighter jets。(drove the use of the AESA on fighter jets means J-10 has by-passed PESA too)

So can you tell me whether I don't know the difference between the two as so-claimed by this guy, or simply he lacks of comprehension skills about Chinese or English? Do you understand the reasons now why I have to make sure he understands fully about the meaning of the particular sentences in Chinese if he uses them to debate with me?

Learn first there is a huge difference between AWACS radar (that you quoted) and fire control radar (that's the topic here). Once you can't understand this point, all other arguments you could say are pull shit.

Be patient, you will see one more element next week, and an another one the week after, and till the end you will find yourself how FALSE is what you pretended that :



I promised you a very very long game, a game throught which you will discover week after week, step by setp, your own error. Since the first time you managed your words in a silly way to me, you started the game. It's me who fixe the rule of the game now, not you.

I could, let's say, give you answer in 5 quotes, clearly showing that J-10B entered into service with PESA radar. But you know, French people says : "On va faire durer le plaisir".

By the way, you didn't tell me if you enjoy the first two elements I show you. If you don't understan now, don't worry, you will be a day.

See you next week on this topic.

Henri K.

I am very patient about time, but not so much about you have to warn me again,again and again.

I will tell you the forth time that I stick to "But J-10B never used PESA;It used AESA from the day one". Even you took my words out of context from the environment of the particular discussion, you still haven't to prove me wrong.

I will admit my mistakes, which is not a big deal for anybody,when the time comes. But before than you need to be patient.

I think It is you who may have a problem to face you mistakes. Do you want me to dig more into it?

You have complained @Deino was "soft" on people like me. I agreed he might be "soft". For instance, did you ask his permission or other mods like @waz to promote/advertise your site here? You gave the link of your site at least 20 times in various threads to procure audience. It is not my business about how the PDF is running, but it is my business not to waste my time. When people go there all they read are in French, all they see are pictures that if can't be founded from the Chinese sites first, can be found at PDF here.

BTW, next time if you want to give me some your famous French idiom, give me in English for I am not the only one here who has no desire to learn your French.