Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Paan Singh]

Hi,

It does not work like that. Remember---anyone can have a 'beautiful' girl---but not everyone can manage and keep a 'beautiful' girl.

Designing a stealth aircraft is a lesser technology as compared to the technology inside of the belly of the aircraft--ie the engine---and the electronics---.

Capabilities of fighter aircraft are not necessarily disclosed by the manufacturer----they are not a hidden secret---the only secret is from the ignorant---.

There are professionals out there who can look at the adversaries industrial base---look at the design---look at the space available and they can tell you right on the dime the capabilities of the aircraft---the electronics---the weapons systems etc---.

There is nothing that china has operational at par with the F 35 and possibly not for another 10 years----. Just because china has flown a couple of stealth designs doesnot mean they are in league of the big boys---. It is just the begining of a major major headache.

NEVER FORGET ABOUT THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT---when you advance technology so fast---the issues and problems have a habbit of increasing at an ever greater pace and numbers---.

China has yet to solve its engine problems----you want to talk about high end electronics warfare package---.

In their dreams the J10B would be able to come close to the Block 60----they can't even match the pak blk52----and they have no capable technology to match the pak blk 52's for the next 5 to 10 years.

i was just about to post it but dint otherwise pakistanis would have bitten me .

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Hi,

It does not work like that. Remember---anyone can have a 'beautiful' girl---but not everyone can manage and keep a 'beautiful' girl.

Designing a stealth aircraft is a lesser technology as compared to the technology inside of the belly of the aircraft--ie the engine---and the electronics---.

Capabilities of fighter aircraft are not necessarily disclosed by the manufacturer----they are not a hidden secret---the only secret is from the ignorant---.

There are professionals out there who can look at the adversaries industrial base---look at the design---look at the space available and they can tell you right on the dime the capabilities of the aircraft---the electronics---the weapons systems etc---.

There is nothing that china has operational at par with the F 35 and possibly not for another 10 years----. Just because china has flown a couple of stealth designs doesnot mean they are in league of the big boys---. It is just the begining of a major major headache.

NEVER FORGET ABOUT THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT---when you advance technology so fast---the issues and problems have a habbit of increasing at an ever greater pace and numbers---.

China has yet to solve its engine problems----you want to talk about high end electronics warfare package---.

In their dreams the J10B would be able to come close to the Block 60----they can't even match the pak blk52----and they have no capable technology to match the pak blk 52's for the next 5 to 10 years.

good post sir, I must say you poured water on many pak, China fanboys who was dreaming j10 t
to be par with f16blk 60 or eurofighter..but I think j10 will be superior to f16blk 52+.

 

[MastanKhan]

good post sir, I must say you poured water on many pak, China fanboys who was dreaming j10 t
to be par with f16blk 60 or eurofighter..but I think j10 will be superior to f16blk 52+.

Hi,

No it is not----china has shown nothing for it to come close to BLK 52 even---our BLK 52's are far suiperior to what china has so far.

Children need to learn---learn from the experience of JF17---you kids said that the JF17 would be the god of skies---it is a mut so far---you kids said we would turn things around with this bird---4 years down the road it is still a long ways away from what was needed and over time it becomes truer that it will never ever reach that point.

Pakistani kids---you people need to learn----that the only person that you are lying to is 'yourself'.

 

[ghazi52]

Hi,

No it is not----china has shown nothing for it to come close to BLK 52 even---our BLK 52's are far suiperior to what china has so far.

Children need to learn---learn from the experience of JF17---you kids said that the JF17 would be the god of skies---it is a mut so far---you kids said we would turn things around with this bird---4 years down the road it is still a long ways away from what was needed and over time it becomes truer that it will never ever reach that point.

Pakistani kids---you people need to learn----that the only person that you are lying to is 'yourself'.

Very true and a fact.

 

[sancho]

i like how you say we don't know about the real performance of the j-10b then in the same paragraph say it must be worst than "The Eurocanards IRIS-T/MICA/METEOR missile combo"

The difference is, that we don't know enough about the J10B technical changes and flight performances on the one side, while we DO know about the current Chinese missile combos (in PAFs case also Brazilian SR AAMs) and can compare them to the Eurocanards missile combos.

So your position is that the numerous and experienced aviation journalists with exceptional subject knowledge and the many reputable publications they work for are ALL WRONG to say that J-10B will be as capable as F-16E Block 60 and latest European offerings???!!!

Why don't you simply post them here, then we can discuss about it. The fact however is, that at the current point there are not even reliable Chinese sourses, that would provide a hint of the technical capabilities of the radar (speculations are still about PESA or AESA), or avionics. You can go to this thread or in similar threads in the Chinese sections and you will understand it. Therefor all that is clear so far is, it will be of the same generation, but not if it will be as capable in performance!

Time to face facts - China is churning out Fifth Gen designs which western experts are putting on par with F-35 etc and you still want to believe that they cannot match F-16E?

Time to face reality - they took over foreign designs, but neither J10, 11, 15, 20 or 31 designs are developed by China. Moreover, the design alone doesn't tell you how good the flight performance, or the technical performance is.
J10A for example has a comparable delta canard design as the EF or Rafale, but the TWR for example is far inferior. Similarly, Chinese stealth fighters looks as Russian and US fighters, but without reliable infos on engine performance, emptyweight, radar or EW sonsors and performance, it remains a claim that they would close or on par. The fact that they still are dependent on Russian engine and radar technology infact hints to the opposite, that's why China still needs at least till the end of the decade till they might be able to fully catch up to Russia, while the US might push ahead again.

 

[airomerix]

Indulging itself in 5th generation fighter designing doesnt mean China has fully mastered the 4th generation jets. F-16 Block 52 is one of the worlds most advanced combat jet. Only few names come forward before it. I would be really surprised if China manages to make J-10B equal if not better then even F-16 Block 40s of the late 80s.

 

[Xracer]

Is there any news when j10b is Coming to PAKISTAN Folks??????????????

 

[帅的一匹]

Indulging itself in 5th generation fighter designing doesnt mean China has fully mastered the 4th generation jets. F-16 Block 52 is one of the worlds most advanced combat jet. Only few names come forward before it. I would be really surprised if China manages to make J-10B equal if not better then even F-16 Block 40s of the late 80s.

You guys absolutely underestimate J10b,F16block40 definitely not a rivalry of J10b. PAF piloted will have a satin at this in the future. The feeling of superiority of American people is understandable but the reality is hard to swallow.

 

[TAC]

Hi,

It does not work like that. Remember---anyone can have a 'beautiful' girl---but not everyone can manage and keep a 'beautiful' girl.

Designing a stealth aircraft is a lesser technology as compared to the technology inside of the belly of the aircraft--ie the engine---and the electronics---.

Capabilities of fighter aircraft are not necessarily disclosed by the manufacturer----they are not a hidden secret---the only secret is from the ignorant---.

There are professionals out there who can look at the adversaries industrial base---look at the design---look at the space available and they can tell you right on the dime the capabilities of the aircraft---the electronics---the weapons systems etc---.

There is nothing that china has operational at par with the F 35 and possibly not for another 10 years----. Just because china has flown a couple of stealth designs doesnot mean they are in league of the big boys---. It is just the begining of a major major headache.

NEVER FORGET ABOUT THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT---when you advance technology so fast---the issues and problems have a habbit of increasing at an ever greater pace and numbers---.

China has yet to solve its engine problems----you want to talk about high end electronics warfare package---.

In their dreams the J10B would be able to come close to the Block 60----they can't even match the pak blk52----and they have no capable technology to match the pak blk 52's for the next 5 to 10 years.

If you actualy read my post you would see that J-10B capabilities are being put on par with the F-16E block 60 by large number of avaition experts writing for reputable publications -- NOT BY ME. My question was whether all these publications / experts were wrong????

Funny that in the same post you say - and I quote ' There are professionals out there who can look at the adversaries industrial base---look at the design---look at the space available and they can tell you right on the dime the capabilities of the aircraft---the electronics---the weapons systems etc---.'
and yet you refuse to accept the views of the same experts. Perhaps you know better than them??

Also - please refrain from twisting what I say - I said that these same independant experts you rate so highly deem China's latest 5TH Gen types to be on par with the F-35 -- and did not say that China had an equivelant to the F-35 'operational'

Very glad that Chinese developments are giving you Americans 'the begining of a major major headache' -- Guess what that headache is here to stay and only going to get worse.

 

[Armstrong]

Very glad that Chinese developments are giving you Americans 'the begining of a major major headache' -- Guess what that headache is here to stay and only going to get worse.

I agree with the rest of your post even though I think Mastan's are worth looking into as well but Mastan Khan might be an American citizen but he is one of our boys - a Pakistani !

 

[帅的一匹]

If design a 5th gen fighter airframe is so simple as someone put it, why the hell DPRK and Iran not design one by themselves?

 

[帅的一匹]

Disagreement is welcomed in this international forum, it only push us to do better. I think J10b won't be inferior to F16block 52. As to block 60, might be better than J10b, but J10 series will keep get updated.

USA technology is some human kind created, not alien ones. One should believe china will be par with them with sufficient money and man power in the next decade.

 

[TAC]

Why don't you simply post them here, then we can discuss about it. The fact however is, that at the current point there are not even reliable Chinese sourses, that would provide a hint of the technical capabilities of the radar (speculations are still about PESA or AESA), or avionics. You can go to this thread or in similar threads in the Chinese sections and you will understand it. Therefor all that is clear so far is, it will be of the same generation, but not if it will be as capable in performance!

Instead of asking me to post sources for independant analysts putting J-10B on par with F-16E Block 60 - why don't you subscribe to a few aviation magazines and try to keep up?

Time to face reality - they took over foreign designs, but neither J10, 11, 15, 20 or 31 designs are developed by China. Moreover, the design alone doesn't tell you how good the flight performance, or the technical performance is.
J10A for example has a comparable delta canard design as the EF or Rafale, but the TWR for example is far inferior. Similarly, Chinese stealth fighters looks as Russian and US fighters, but without reliable infos on engine performance, emptyweight, radar or EW sonsors and performance, it remains a claim that they would close or on par. The fact that they still are dependent on Russian engine and radar technology infact hints to the opposite, that's why China still needs at least till the end of the decade till they might be able to fully catch up to Russia, while the US might push ahead again.

I agree - time to face reality -- It is independant experts who are putting China's latest 5th Gen types on par with likes of F-35 - NOT ME. You can either face that reality or bury you head in the sand on the basis that we don't know for sure because China hasn't released 'reliable info's'. My point was that if they can handle 5th gen tech - they can surely match F-16E tech - and this is backed up by various publications which have stated that J-10B is expected to be as capable as F-16E Block 60.

I agree with the rest of your post even though I think Mastan's are worth looking into as well but Mastan Khan might be an American citizen but he is one of our boys - a Pakistani !

I know but he always refers to Pakistani's as 'you people' so sometimes difficult to remember he's a Pakistani - perhaps you should remind him too.

 

[Armstrong]

Disagreement is welcomed in this international forum, it only push us to do better. I think J10b won't be inferior to F16block 52. As to block 60, might be better than J10b, but J10 series will keep get updated.

USA technology is some human kind created, not alien ones. One should believe china will be par with them with sufficient money and man power in the next decade.

Is there a possibility of seeing a J-10C ? *Perhaps post 2020*

And on that note how far do the inherent limitations of the J-10 design allow for to be upgraded too ? Which is to say till how far can it be upgraded with new blocks coming up before the initial design doesn't allow for a further upgrade & one needs to go back to the drawing board to make changes that may need to be catered to be designing a completely new aircraft ?
@TAC : The same question from you, mate, if you will !

 

[帅的一匹]

Good question bro, perhaps you have noticed the airframe change J10b have made compared with J10a. There must be a J10c program going on as J10 got vast updating potential.

Actually we deem J10b as a 5th gen tech test bed.