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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

USA technology is some human kind created, not alien ones. One should believe china will be par with them with sufficient money and man power in the next decade.

Of course China will be on par someday, but money alone won't get you there, it needs time and a lot of own developments, but so far you are still trying to catch up with 4th and 4.5 gen techs and capabilities. For the NG you still need Russian help, be it in design or key technologies. J10B actually shows this pretty well too, with the addition of IRST or certain materials and coatings. The next step will be advanced radars, avionics, or engines and that are the fields that will be important for J20 for example.


Instead of asking me to post sources for independant analysts putting J-10B on par with F-16E Block 60 - why don't you subscribe to a few aviation magazines and try to keep up?

Buddy, that's the reason why I am following this thread and similar threads in the Chinese section for years. To get real infos and real sources, not only speculations of western media, or guys that pretend to know things about J10B, be it positive of negative things.
 
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I just remembered: does the J-10 have a passively phased array radar, an active electronically phased array radar, or a plain old pusle-doppler radar?
 
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I just remembered: does the J-10 have a passively phased array radar, an active electronically phased array radar, or a plain old pusle-doppler radar?

I am quite it is AESA. Not to forget J10b is a 5gen fighter test bed.
 
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Its Just not BVR, its much more! JFT Gives PAF a localization of true MR capabilities. Those who used to discount JFT vis-a-vis J-10 have now started to recognize that JF-17, in fact, has turned out to be more versatile platform than J-10 in terms of capabilities.

May I have the audacity to know that based of what facts have you drawn this conclusion.
 
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Instead of asking me to post sources for independant analysts putting J-10B on par with F-16E Block 60 - why don't you subscribe to a few aviation magazines and try to keep up?





I agree - time to face reality -- It is independant experts who are putting China's latest 5th Gen types on par with likes of F-35 - NOT ME. You can either face that reality or bury you head in the sand on the basis that we don't know for sure because China hasn't released 'reliable info's'. My point was that if they can handle 5th gen tech - they can surely match F-16E tech - and this is backed up by various publications which have stated that J-10B is expected to be as capable as F-16E Block 60.



I know but he always refers to Pakistani's as 'you people' so sometimes difficult to remember he's a Pakistani - perhaps you should remind him too.


Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.
 
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Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

Nice post. Even this hold good for few from our soil as well.
 
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Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

You try to say USA is invincible. I wanna try it someday in the future. At Korean war back to1950, we tied with the united army led by the same USA you quite with nearly 40years tech gap. One has right to believe what he make himself to believe.

Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

You try to say USA is invincible. I wanna try it someday in the future. At Korean war back to1950, we tied with the united army led by the same USA you quite with nearly 40years tech gap. One has right to believe what he make himself to believe.

Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

You try to say USA is invincible. I wanna try it someday in the future. At Korean war back to1950, we tied with the united army led by the same USA you quite with nearly 40years tech gap. One has right to believe what he make himself to believe.

Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

You try to say USA is invincible. I wanna try it someday in the future. At Korean war back to1950, we tied with the united army led by the same USA you quite with nearly 40years tech gap. One has right to believe what he make himself to believe.

Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

You try to say USA is invincible. I wanna try it someday in the future. At Korean war back to1950, we tied with the united army led by the same USA with nearly 40years tech gap. One has right to believe what he make himself to believe. Suggest you not to call others son or child,that's no
More than a frog living in the bottom of a well tell others how vast is the sky. We Chinese is creating a miracle even get your defense minister shocked. Respect others ,respect yourself.
 
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May I have the audacity to know that based of what facts have you drawn this conclusion.
Do you need any rocket science for that?
1-JFT offers the same BVR capability as the J-10 Does
2-JFT offers the same ground attack as the J-10 Does
3-JFT offers the same Precision Strike Capability as the J-10 Does
4-JFT offers Maritime strike capability which is not active on J-10 til date
5-JFT can employ the same recon and Jamming Pods that J-10 Does
Anything else that I missed?
I often wonder how people like to compare aircrafts based on apparent characteristics rather than capabilities. A fighter's capabilities play a major role in defining its function and abilities. Just because an aircraft is Mach 1.06 and other is Mach 1.08 or if one aircraft has lesser load capability than other aircraft matter much unless their intended role requires them to be.
 
.
Hi,

I have been trying to teach you kids for 6 years now how to read the 'tea leaves'---but you kids are so thick headed---it is beyond belief---.

It is an old american habbit to creat a monster out of a mole hill----remember iraq gulf wars 1 and 2---. If you cannot---the do you remember seeing the interview of the chinese general talking about the issues with J10's electronics in comparison to the americans---that was just a couple of years ago----so what has happened in that time period that the chinese had made such a leap in technology that has changed the minds of the world---nothing-----none---zilch---nada---.

You got to understand by now----when western media starts talking about the chinese weapons systems---you need to understand that they are fulfilling the agenda of american defence industry.

There is a news out in today's jang news paper---85% pakistanis have never been to a library---and most who go there---go to read the news paper---man said that they have no libraries in their cities---.

These news media experts are trying to puff up the chinese dragon to make it believe in what it is not---.

You fools---china does not have a single fighter jet engine that could compete with the engine built and designed in the 1970 for F16 or the F 15 fighter aircrafts----.

It does not even have anything to compete with the SR71 engine built and designed in the early 60's----how far is the u s ahead of the world----no nation can come close and compete with some the the u s's 60 technology of this aircraft---.

I feel pain for you my young children---for your ignorance and lack of knowledge----in how you want to look knowledgeable and literate and the tragedy that befalls the motherland----no one to tell you the truth.

The pin pricks are meant to get your attention----and make you to learn with an open mnind to see what is on the other side---but tragicaly you kids revert back to what has been ingrained deep in your psyches---don't like something---ignore it---something gets you mad---stop listening to it----. Change that mindset and there will be a new begining.

well your the best member on PDF by far no one even comes close to what you say sir but the thing is as you mentioned in the last pera well sir all i can say is YOU CAN TAKE A HORSE TO THE WATER BUT YOU CANT MAKE HIM DRINK:unsure:

mY Opologies t Mods if he thinks my post is offensive ........BHAWNAOO KO SAMJO:angel:
 
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Hi,

It does not work like that. Remember---anyone can have a 'beautiful' girl---but not everyone can manage and keep a 'beautiful' girl.

Designing a stealth aircraft is a lesser technology as compared to the technology inside of the belly of the aircraft--ie the engine---and the electronics---.

Capabilities of fighter aircraft are not necessarily disclosed by the manufacturer----they are not a hidden secret---the only secret is from the ignorant---.

There are professionals out there who can look at the adversaries industrial base---look at the design---look at the space available and they can tell you right on the dime the capabilities of the aircraft---the electronics---the weapons systems etc---.

There is nothing that china has operational at par with the F 35 and possibly not for another 10 years----. Just because china has flown a couple of stealth designs doesnot mean they are in league of the big boys---. It is just the begining of a major major headache.

NEVER FORGET ABOUT THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT---when you advance technology so fast---the issues and problems have a habbit of increasing at an ever greater pace and numbers---.

China has yet to solve its engine problems----you want to talk about high end electronics warfare package---.

In their dreams the J10B would be able to come close to the Block 60----they can't even match the pak blk52----and they have no capable technology to match the pak blk 52's for the next 5 to 10 years.

While most of your arguments are valid from a discussion's standpoint, you are heavily discounting a few things:
1) Yes, sure the Chinese engine technology needs to mature for J-10, J-11, J-16, J-20 and J-31 types of platforms. But for the JFT, the RD-93 is actually a very capable engine.

2) The multirole capability designed in the JFT and for future Chinese jet was taken from an F-16 initially. Then, further designs were bought - stolen through the black market and then the Russian input into designing jets, license production - tot for the SU-27, etc and later the BVR tech given to China. Then the rumor has it that they stole F-35's data also.

What this means is that the Chinese HAVE developed the infrastructure and the technology base, based on the current standards. Now, it's a matter of few years till they start to produce 80 - 90% of the capability that the US jets provide.
The Chinese military industry is set to beat the Russians in weapons sale by 2025. That's a fact. I am sure that in a conflict, any pilot would want to fly a jet 80-90% capable of its Western counterparts than flying obsolete tech. An example is PAF's Mirages and F-7 vs. the JFT.

3) One of the most critical points is that, unlike the US and Russia.....the Chinese are ahead in some cases. They've learned from the best and their mistakes. The US no doubt is and will be technology wise always superior. One of the best things we do well.....is the military. Better than anyone else.
But, since WWII, we the US and then the Russians have worked on MANY designs that end up costing billions but were a waste from all aspects. Just take a look at the Russian or American lines of old jets.
The Russians got behind because they opted for Mainframe technologies (which are back now as cloud computing), while the US setup an industry base with the Micro processor, thus its industry adopted for computer based applications in the smallest workplace, offering new generation capability due to the small infrastructure. But the Russians stayed with the mainframe and large complex infrastructure. The results of which can be seen if you do a cockpit analysis of earlier versions of F-16 c's vs. the Mig 29, SU-25 and 27.
The Chinese are using the same technique as the Americans. They are using Micro-processor based infrastructure and tech. Due to which, offering multiple tech options for even a smaller defense company is possible due to the ease of Infrastructure setup for defense research.
So...the Chinese have decent airframes and the capability that they've started to offer. It is generations ahead of what they were offering in 1998!!! So they skipped about three decades compared to what the Russians accomplished between the 70's and the 2000's. So you can see where the Chinese are.
They are actually closer than you thought (hate to admit it but its true). Within next 5-10 years, you'll see the technology, weapons, avionics coming almost on par with the Europeans / the West. 10-15% different doesn't really count when you are dealing with the same capability on either side. Similarly, they are running three batches of Engine tech programs and they are in testing. It's just a matter of few years before they iron out their tech issues and mass-produce their main lines of engines!!!
But from a comparison's standpoint, the US will remain the sole super power for the foreseeable future (next 40 years). It's influence may get reduced a bit as there will be regional powers from Brazil to China to India to Russia. But the US will remain the top line defense manufacturer due to its innovation, staying ahead of the curve, investments in defense r&d and prior experience in weapons development.
 
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Do you need any rocket science for that?
1-JFT offers the same BVR capability as the J-10 Does
2-JFT offers the same ground attack as the J-10 Does
3-JFT offers the same Precision Strike Capability as the J-10 Does
4-JFT offers Maritime strike capability which is not active on J-10 til date
5-JFT can employ the same recon and Jamming Pods that J-10 Does
Anything else that I missed?
I often wonder how people like to compare aircrafts based on apparent characteristics rather than capabilities. A fighter's capabilities play a major role in defining its function and abilities. Just because an aircraft is Mach 1.06 and other is Mach 1.08 or if one aircraft has lesser load capability than other aircraft matter much unless their intended role requires them to be.

And your official claim for all the above.
 
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the weapons / pods might be the same but the radar, payload, fuel capacity, design etc are different

we say that we should not have all the eggs in one basket -- as countries then can politically/economically blackmail us --russuia [russian engines] and china are no different--- so should we go with jf17,j10 and j31 ---- or buy the j31 as no one else will sell us 5th gen fighters and buy a european 4.5+ fighter instead of j10b ? has paf seriously considered any other option other than j10b if there is no chance of further f16s? Getting funds to buy j10b is half the battle ... getting this fighter at par with blk60/ rafale is the other half...
 
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the weapons / pods might be the same but the radar, payload, fuel capacity, design etc are different

we say that we should not have all the eggs in one basket -- as countries then can politically/economically blackmail us --russuia [russian engines] and china are no different--- so should we go with jf17,j10 and j31 ---- or buy the j31 as no one else will sell us 5th gen fighters and buy a european 4.5+ fighter instead of j10b ? has paf seriously considered any other option other than j10b if there is no chance of further f16s?
What is that blackmail coming from? USA might sell you F35 if you willing to pay and with enough patience. come on, China weapon is not some cheap potato whoever come and go take at will. We offered Pakistan these because your are the strongest ally of China in the world.
 
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With corrupt politicians and under the table deals no one knows --- ask our gov departments how many civil projects were given without any open announcements to different chinese firms and how they faired at the end -- not due to incompetency but due to corruption

I am pro- chinese -- it is the materialistic elements sitting at the decision making position that have let us down

I would appreciate if this matter is not discussed further -- please concentrate on the ''all eggs in 1 basket aspect''

With dismal state of affairs in pakistan, even china would let go of pak at some time or the other... if we keep getting great leaders like zardari in the future
 
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Almost All Chinese are Pro Pakistani, including me. If PAF could go for Europe Typhoon fighter, it will be a good one.

Shame on those Chinese firms bribe Pakistan politician!
 
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