Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Luftwaffe]

Thats something..
the raptor was designed in the 90's.. but has features(and lots and lot of room for more of them) to tackle threats in the 2030's. Its expensive because its breaking so many boundaries.

Think of it this way, the F-15 is a product of the late sixties.. but it is still considered one of the deadliest things in the sky today. Had it remained the old 70's fighters.. it would have made sense. But continuous updates have kept it very very relevant. What makes you believe that raptor(which has a lot more potential for upgrades) wont be then

That makes me Think of a flawed assumption "There is nothing out there, that will see or beat the raptor." , IF F-15 a product of 70s with many upgrades is deadly why should J-31/J-20 be underestimated and not be deadliest which are essentially the products of post 2000-2005 and also have alot more potential and room for upgrades to even challenge F-22 in the future after all technology and brains are not just limited to US. Anyway we need to get back to J-10/FC-20 Topic.

 

[SQ8]

That makes me Think of a flawed assumption "There is nothing out there, that will see or beat the raptor." , IF F-15 a product of 70s with many upgrades is deadly why should J-31/J-20 be underestimated and not be deadliest which are essentially the products of post 2000-2005 and also have alot more potential and room for upgrades to even challenge F-22 in the future after all technology and brains are not just limited to US. Anyway we need to get back to J-10/FC-20 Topic.

Here's the basis behind that correct assumption of mine.
The F-22 is not just airframe.. its a powerhouse of electronic power that is yet unmatched.
The F-22 doesnt just kill you because its stealthy or maneuverable.. it kills you because it can kill you silently.
The Level of technology, not just sophistication but reliability and responsiveness.. is what the Chinese or anyone for that matter have yet to master..and are ten to fifteen years from it.
What makes you think that the F-22 would not have moved on from where it is today, the F-22 of ten years down will be ten year ahead then.
its just that simple.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Here's the basis behind that correct assumption of mine.
The F-22 is not just airframe.. its a powerhouse of electronic power that is yet unmatched.
The F-22 doesnt just kill you because its stealthy or maneuverable.. it kills you because it can kill you silently.
The Level of technology, not just sophistication but reliability and responsiveness.. is what the Chinese or anyone for that matter have yet to master..and are ten to fifteen years from it.
What makes you think that the F-22 would not have moved on from where it is today, the F-22 of ten years down will be ten year ahead then.
its just that simple.

Don't exaggerate the F-22 fleet has been grounded multiple times because the O2 system on board is choking it's pilots.

 

[rohailmalhi]

The REASON why I brought F-22 into this thread was because one of your very smart countrymen posted FLIR pictures of the Rafale 'locking' onto the F-22. What a freaking joke. So, I had to come in and explain that when the half life of the drug taken before posting that FLIR picture was over, the reality was still that the F-22 taking down many of the top line jets before they can guess what hit them.
NO Pakfa, J-20 or anything else can come closer to the technology being used in the F-22. There's a reason why it's about $ 200 mil a piece.

Every country can make 'Stealthy' jets. ONLY the US can make the F-22. That's the bottom line and you can trust it or try it. Wouldn't recommend sending a few of your SU-30's against the F-22....on the radio, it sounds something like 'Contact Lost'..in the middle of what otherwise would seem to be a normal flight. Then followed by a sharp beep and a dark radar screen.............

I think that fact is more exaggerated than it actually is . Raptor is no doubt a great aircraft but saying that its an alien technology is simply BS.It has it edge over others but not like it completely in 4th dimension that no can knows what hitem.

Now a days Weapon itself is not that important, its they simply how it is presented to create fear for it like its an alien spacecraft which no one in this world can see or know , it has technologies which never exsisted in this world and will never ever for decades .

Actually i think new 4.5 Gen fighters planes like typhoon , rafael e.t.c leave aside 5 GEN program by China and Russia, are capable enough to give raptor a tough time.

US is ahead of others but now world is catching up to them , its just a matter of time they get

 

[Viper0011.]

That makes me Think of a flawed assumption "There is nothing out there, that will see or beat the raptor." , IF F-15 a product of 70s with many upgrades is deadly why should J-31/J-20 be underestimated and not be deadliest which are essentially the products of post 2000-2005 and also have alot more potential and room for upgrades to even challenge F-22 in the future after all technology and brains are not just limited to US. Anyway we need to get back to J-10/FC-20 Topic.

Guys - Raptor isn't one of the 'Russian' designs. Actually, it is a design based off of USAF's F-15 + more requirements from pilots, military users and technological superiority needs. The US designs and jet engineering is much different in principle than the Russians. Plus US made engines and airflow dynamics are built on entirely different design standards than the rest of the world. Trust me on this.

Second, yes, the F-15 FINALLY saw competition in the form of SU-30 (jury is still out on 'how competitive') but both share similar capabilities (SU-30's design principles were created due to the success of F-14. With technology transfer or analysis coming from Iran and others. It's radar till date tracks 6 and fires on 6. Same like the f-14). So in 90's, the world was finally catching up to the American tech from the 60's. Internet was created in the 60's by the DoD/ DARPA. So the US always stays ahead militarily. That's just the purpose of the US MIC.

Last but not least, F-22.....we can go all night here and talk about the unknown. But, let's put it this way. NO ONE has been able to put a super computer in a miniaturized form into a jet. The F-22 has it and much more, things and sensors that are not even out there yet or are still beind used as proof of concepts.
May be in the next 15-20 years, you'll truly see a match for the Raptor but the US military has already advanced from it....they are working on Hypersonic planes, etc. So imagine where they'll be in 20 years when the world will be coming up with a true Raptor counter....Raptor may be the most advanced jet in the US military's inventory, but the reality is, they are testing equipment for the generation after the Raptor. So in a way, Raptor's now old technology and concepts if you will.

Also, people here are right when they say that the tech and the brain power is not limited to the Americans. I copy that. BUT...CREATIVITY is. The US uses and brings the best brain power from across the globe..Israel, Russia, Germany, the UK, India, Pakistan, etc. If you look back since WWII.....the US's lead creativity across the globe. Sure, it'll change and the innovation will come / is coming from China, Israel, India, Russia, etc, etc. BUT....the American military industrial complex is STILL about two decades ahead of everyone else, IF not more.

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the topic. The F-22 came in when someone posted Rafale's picture (FLIR images) locking on to a F-22. There were statements made that portrayed the Rafale the next best thing since wrestling. So I wanted to correct that. Back to the topic.

 

[SQ8]

Don't exaggerate the F-22 fleet has been grounded multiple times because the O2 system on board is choking it's pilots.

Its an O2 fault.. not electronic.
In any case, time to return to the J-10/FC-20 .. if it ever comes to the PAF.. but lets be wishful and discuss anyway.

 

[Donatello]

Here's the basis behind that correct assumption of mine.
The F-22 is not just airframe.. its a powerhouse of electronic power that is yet unmatched.
The F-22 doesnt just kill you because its stealthy or maneuverable.. it kills you because it can kill you silently.
The Level of technology, not just sophistication but reliability and responsiveness.. is what the Chinese or anyone for that matter have yet to master..and are ten to fifteen years from it.
What makes you think that the F-22 would not have moved on from where it is today, the F-22 of ten years down will be ten year ahead then.
its just that simple.

Oscar,

F-22 will remain the most potent platform for some time. However, Europeans have all the tech and know-how to make a jet as expensive as F-22, but why would they need to?

I mean, you say that F-22 was designed to face threats in 2030s? Right? I mean 2030 would be a different world to live in. F-22 is designed not to fight F-15s or F-16s but the newer class of jets. So when it is pitted against, say J-20 or T-50, do you really think in 2 decades time US would have balls to go and shoot down a j-20? We all saw what happened in the Hainan Island incident.

To be honest, tell me one advanced or strong country that the USA has been able give a bloody nose? In the past 50 years USA has faced off developing, third world. Big deal eh?

What happens when they deal with someone not so easy? I mean, F-22 dropping bombs on Iran, big deal? F-15 can do that as well.

I mean they can shoot down PAF or IAF jets, but seriously? Will USA risk shooting down and the consequences that come from China or Russia? In the near future F-22s will just patrol the skies because there is no competition for them. And when the competition does come, it would be useless because it would facing an equal adversary, by which point F-22 become irrelevent.


You have no idea how much the East Asians have been studying with regards to Electronics and Engineering in the West. When they go back home, they take all the knowledge with them. There are number of Scholarships and Programmes funded by the Chinese government at Top Engineering schools worldwide. They send their citizens, they learn and they go back.

Trust me, as much as i love F-22, the reality is, in a decade or two it would irrelevant at such a shocking pace, to both you and the USAF.


This is no longer 1960s/70s USA vs the East. This is 21st century. Who saw J-20 or J-31 coming? No one.

 

[Donatello]

Guys - Raptor isn't one of the 'Russian' designs. Actually, it is a design based off of USAF's F-15 + more requirements from pilots, military users and technological superiority needs. The US designs and jet engineering is much different in principle than the Russians. Plus US made engines and airflow dynamics are built on entirely different design standards than the rest of the world. Trust me on this.

Second, yes, the F-15 FINALLY saw competition in the form of SU-30 (jury is still out on 'how competitive') but both share similar capabilities (SU-30's design principles were created due to the success of F-14. With technology transfer or analysis coming from Iran and others. It's radar till date tracks 6 and fires on 6. Same like the f-14). So in 90's, the world was finally catching up to the American tech from the 60's. Internet was created in the 60's by the DoD/ DARPA. So the US always stays ahead militarily. That's just the purpose of the US MIC.

Last but not least, F-22.....we can go all night here and talk about the unknown. But, let's put it this way. NO ONE has been able to put a super computer in a miniaturized form into a jet. The F-22 has it and much more, things and sensors that are not even out there yet or are still beind used as proof of concepts.
May be in the next 15-20 years, you'll truly see a match for the Raptor but the US military has already advanced from it....they are working on Hypersonic planes, etc. So imagine where they'll be in 20 years when the world will be coming up with a true Raptor counter....Raptor may be the most advanced jet in the US military's inventory, but the reality is, they are testing equipment for the generation after the Raptor. So in a way, Raptor's now old technology and concepts if you will.

Also, people here are right when they say that the tech and the brain power is not limited to the Americans. I copy that. BUT...CREATIVITY is. The US uses and brings the best brain power from across the globe..Israel, Russia, Germany, the UK, India, Pakistan, etc. If you look back since WWII.....the US's lead creativity across the globe. Sure, it'll change and the innovation will come / is coming from China, Israel, India, Russia, etc, etc. BUT....the American military industrial complex is STILL about two decades ahead of everyone else, IF not more.

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the topic. The F-22 came in when someone posted Rafale's picture (FLIR images) locking on to a F-22. There were statements made that portrayed the Rafale the next best thing since wrestling. So I wanted to correct that. Back to the topic.

2 Decades? But shrinking extremely fast.

Go to Chinese Defense sub-forum on this PDF. Then go to the PLAN discussion thread. Go from page 1 to where it is now. See, the amount of ships and the tech they have produced?

I was shocked! Give China another 10 years at 6-8% GDP growth, and you'd be looking at a different world.

 

[Safriz]

www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/218694-f-22-raptor-thread.html#post3594122


Please continue the Raptor discussion in this thread.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Thankyou Safriz, Just one more post before coming back to J-10/FC-20 Thread.

Oscar; I do have the Answer for it but the Thread is J-10/FC-20, Perhaps you might have read F-22 Pilots and Engineers have pointed out a number of problems with F-22 which renders your inflated claims of reliability and responsiveness i'll dig the Article that talks of responsiveness problems explained by an Elite F-22 pilot. Anyone would be fool to assume Chinese are sitting ducks After US, China is now the second largest nation in terms of R&D spending. WWII during-post is a prime example Nations excelled.
Air Force Pilots Blow The Whistle On F-22 Raptor's Mysterious, And Dangerous, Flaw

 

[Viper0011.]

Thankyou Safriz, Just one more post before coming back to J-10/FC-20 Thread.

Oscar; I do have the Answer for it but the Thread is J-10/FC-20, Perhaps you might have read F-22 Pilots and Engineers have pointed out a number of problems with F-22 which renders your inflated claims of reliability and responsiveness i'll dig the Article that talks of responsiveness problems explained by an Elite F-22 pilot. Anyone would be fool to assume Chinese are sitting ducks After US, China is now the second largest nation in terms of R&D spending. WWII during-post is a prime example Nations excelled.
Air Force Pilots Blow The Whistle On F-22 Raptor's Mysterious, And Dangerous, Flaw

So I should get one more shot at it too (I feel like I am part of our presidential debate that happened a while ago). No one said the Chinese or the Russians or the Israelis can't produce quality tech. The point was, SO FAR, the US's owned it. No doubt that the Chinese, the Israelis, the Russians and the French are coming along quickly now that the technology has become a commodity. So sure, innovation will happen everywhere.
As far as 'problems' in the F-22. Sure, I know about them too and everyone who reads yahoo or cnn knows about those too. However, just like 25000 people signed a petition to be a separate state and people jumped on the 'civil war' conclusion in America on this forum, doesn't mean that these 'problems' are so 'massive' that the plane can't function. The Oxygen issue was big and even that wasn't in ALL jets. As a security precaution, the US military would ground the whole fleet. But, the point is, Oxygen or an issue here and there, doesn't downgrade this plane to F-16. It is Still the f-22 and offers the capability it's designed for. As it becomes combat proven, the flaws will be ironed out. For the first few years, the pilots flying F-14 were restricted with speed and maneuvers. So is the case with F-22, Rafale, PakFa, JFT, F-15, Su-30 and everything else.

Anyway, does anyone know FC-20's radar's maximum track and lock capability (in the new AESA)?? Also, what's the full load of BVRs and WVR's it can carry? Thanks

 

[krash]

Oh look a J-10B!

come back guys.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

if u consider su 30 a 4.5 gen then chinese have got plenty of these so they can compare the perfomance of both the aircrafts

SU-30MKI can have 360 Degree Radar coverage plus, so that SU-30MKI pilot can lock on Chasing plane and fire missile without turning back.

buddy to buddy radar sharing, all SU-30 Planes can see though very long distance though radars of other plane....this is called 4.5 gen features... like one SU-30 is 150 KM behind other or side by side then behind one can use other SU-30 Radar to look forward .

Are some of very advance features.

 

[Viper0011.]

SU-30MKI can have 360 Degree Radar coverage plus, so that SU-30MKI pilot can lock on Chasing plane and fire missile without turning back.

buddy to buddy radar sharing, all SU-30 Planes can see though very long distance though radars of other plane....this is called 4.5 gen features... like one SU-30 is 150 KM behind other or side by side then behind one can use other SU-30 Radar to look forward .
Are some of very advance features.

Just some correction. the SU-30 does NOT have the rear end 360 degree coverage. Ask someone who's flown one or someone who knows the good, the bads and the ugly's of this plane. BUT, it does have a massive radar that's long range, great speed and agility and massive weapons carrying capacity. But also a huge rcs.

On the other end, the American F-16's (b 40) have had the radar and data sharing capability since the 90's. Its nothing new. heck, f-16 1 can allow f 16 2 to target his target that he may have a lock on by sharing the AAM mode with the other jet. So this one capability is irrelevant

 

[[--Leo--]]

SU-30MKI can have 360 Degree Radar coverage plus, so that SU-30MKI pilot can lock on Chasing plane and fire missile without turning back.

buddy to buddy radar sharing, all SU-30 Planes can see though very long distance though radars of other plane....this is called 4.5 gen features... like one SU-30 is 150 KM behind other or side by side then behind one can use other SU-30 Radar to look forward .

Are some of very advance features.

can you explain this how su-30mki do that?please coz i see this feature only in the F-35