Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[IceCold]

Sadly your pesonal remarks degrade the forum. If you are not able to understand the logic and developments without seing the reality you miss that extra to become a think tank. I do not have to prove that China is busy with AESA. Just ask Crobato. He can give you the factory numbers and some detail. I am not intrested in personal vendetta or copy paste attitude or personal bashing. But somehow you just want to say the last word, don't you? Love that.

ohh please! what did i say that has degraded this forum? It was you who gave the personal remark at the first place about me doing some more reasearch or that you now have an opinion about me and when i asked you on what should i do more research, you backed away since you had no grounds to hold on to at the first place and as for your opinion about me, do you really think i give a damn about it, No i dont. Instead of discussing the issue at hand you are running in circles and hiding behind others. Sorry but if this is what you call extra to become a think tank, i am better off without it. From the beginning till now all you have come up is with your personal crap and nothing related to the issue. Being a think tank your attitude sucks.

 

[IceCold]

International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > China’s J-10 Jet Fighter: How Much Do We Know?

>>>A Chinese source disclosed in early 2005 that CAC was considering a program to build a "F-35" class fighter. This would likely mean that CAC is considering stealthy, AESA-radar equipped, internal weapon carrying high performance combat aircraft. It is logical that CAC would consider such a "lightweight" fighter project, inasmuch as Shenyang seems to be building "heavy" fighters. Nevertheless, brochures from the 601 Design Institute, usually associated with CAC, appear to indicate they are considering a "heavy" twin-engine 5th generation design that may be in competition with Shenyang’s longstanding 5th generation fighter program. However, Shenyang’s revelation of an advanced forward-swept wing but single-engine 5th generation fighter concept at the recent 2006 Zhuhai Airshow, may mean it also is aiming for an “affordable” next-generation design.

Again nonsense. These rumors have been there all along with China building this and China building that. I am clearly surprised that you actually buy this BS. JXX and its related pictures have been bashed already on other forums and though i do not discount the fact that china is being busy in modernizing her armed forces, it is still years behind from what the west has to offer.

So they are stil busy with J6 according to you? Or do you think that revealing J10 was jus their last card?

Stop posting crap i never said so. Read my posts again.

 

[IceCold]

Probably not true but still signs of activity.... More then your word that they do not have.

>>>
China develops advanced avionicsnews

20 August 2007

China's new J10A fighter uses a hi-tech active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The country revealed its range of military AESA radars recently, after years of intense research and development.

AESA systems consist of thousands of tiny radars that make it possible to track many different targets simultaneously. China claims its new J10A radar can track 10 targets at a time and attack four of them simultaneously with long-range missiles.

The J10 is also completely Chinese made, though it looks very similar to the American F-16 and even weighs about the same (19 tonnes). Like the F-16 (and unlike the Russian Su-27), the J10 has only one engine, the new Chinese WS10A, developed after a decade of development. Originally, the J10 used a Russian AL-31FN engine.

The J10 resembles the F-16 because Israel is supposed to have secretly sold China the technology for the Israeli Lavi jet fighter after Israel itself abandoned the Lavi project because it was cheaper to buy F-16s and F-15s from the United States.


The Lavi was meant to be a super F-16, and the Israelis had developed new components for the plane. China has about a dozen J10As in service. The numbers will increase once the WS10A engine is put into production, in a year or two. China has long sought jet engine and AESA technology from the US, and has often been accused of espionage for the purpose.

Ohh for god sake! Will you just stop posting crap. My God you just copied the same article from the previous page and pasted it here again to support your paper argument. J-10 has an AESA radar, do i even need to say anything more to prove how creditable this news source of yours is.

 

[IceCold]

Let us look at Janes...

>>>China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter

09 January 2006
China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter

By Henry Ivanov JDW Correspondent
Moscow

China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources.

Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10.

However, the imposition of US export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.

In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27's AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox. At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for the AL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.

The company's general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the "Chinese Super-10 fighter". Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut's Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during

You can say where there is smoke there will be some fire... And frankly I rather look at more sources and then say something logical then a personal flame that think tank member should know better...

[You can find the rest yourself... I bet you know how to handle Google]

Do you ever give up. Read the article you just pasted, it says a passive phased array and not an active phased array? Do you even understand the difference between the two? Also if you just happened to spend a little more time in reading my previous posts a bit carefully rather then spending your time in searching utter nonsense, you would have noticed that i did too mentioned the super-10 and my previous post on about the article being rubbish was based on the current model of the J-10 having an AESA radar and not super-10.

You have just waisted enough of my time and i certainly do not wish to carry on with you on this since you have no grounds to hold on too, therefore this will be my last reply to you on this issue.

 

[Munir]

You wouldn't recognize a donkey, even if it was written on it.

If you hardly have the knowledge to understand why Turkey and Greece do not start shooting eachother then why should I believe you? What is your background and what makes you worth to be read? Sofar I see hardly valuable input from your side. To tell you the truth, we have seen many posters on several websites saying they knew it all. And you might wonder why they got it wrong? I bet you cannot think even beyond that. Are you a Pakistani? I doubt that. 2300 posts doesn't make you worth anything. And I can clearly say that you should join Pakistani politics. You are suited for that.

Mr many posts quits discussion cause he has nothing else to say besides China cannot produce a fighter based AESA... What is next? Crying?

 

[IceCold]

You wouldn't recognize a donkey, even if it was written on it.

If you hardly have the knowledge to understand why Turkey and Greece do not start shooting eachother then why should I believe you? What is your background and what makes you worth to be read? Sofar I see hardly valuable input from your side. To tell you the truth, we have seen many posters on several websites saying they knew it all. And you might wonder why they got it wrong? I bet you cannot think even beyond that. Are you a Pakistani? I doubt that. 2300 posts doesn't make you worth anything. And I can clearly say that you should join Pakistani politics. You are suited for that.

Mr many posts quits discussion cause he has nothing else to say besides China cannot produce a fighter based AESA... What is next? Crying?

There you go again with your usual rant. Now tell me from where did Turkey and Greece fall into? When i asked that, it was beecause of the videos posted there showing a dog fight going on between the two sides and as this guy from turkey was saying that the Greek jet crashed, so i asked big deal, unlike you i do have the gutts to ask others if i do not have the understanding of a certain issue. You on the other hand are too bigot to understand anything beyond your self centered personality.

And about me not being Pakistani, look who's saying it some one from holland with pakistani flags. A sincere piece of advice stop waisting Bandwidth.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Settle down now guys, before we have to lock this thread and start issuing infractions.

Both of you have essentially agreed on the original point.

China does not as of now have a working AESA in its J-10 (that we know of), though that does not preclude them from having potential prototypes or ongoing development work on an AESA.

Lets leave it at that please.

 

[Munir]

And the topic was:

I said China is certainly busy with fighter sized AESA and Icy thinks that J10/China has no AESA...

EDITED


Let me refrase the topic:

Is China at this moment busy with AESA or not? Is there anything like JXX in the deveopment? And then the part : WHY?

 

[fatman17]

Settle down now guys, before we have to lock this thread and start issuing infractions.

Both of you have essentially agreed on the original point.

China does not as of now have a working AESA in its J-10 (that we know of), though that does not preclude them from having potential prototypes or ongoing development work on an AESA.

Lets leave it at that please.

cooling off period is highly recommended bcuz i have a lot of respect for both munir and icecold!

 

[Munir]

I dumped the entire topic but since it is edited and the best idea ever about cooling down is " forced". We can settle this topic as non importante. Unfortunate both PAF and China are not the most open source so we will see in the next -12 months hopeful something to get more discussion...

I am no fan of AESA on small fighters. It comes intresting on MKI/F15 size... You need awful lot space for cooling, hardware and I hope that AEW&C could do that much better... I would not add 5 million radar on a plane worth 15 million.

 

[Nomi929]

I am no fan of AESA on small fighters. It comes intresting on MKI/F15 size... You need awful lot space for cooling, hardware and I hope that AEW&C could do that much better... I would not add 5 million radar on a plane worth 15 million.

Fully Agreed!!!

There is no point is equipping Jf-17 with AESA.

All PAF needs to do is add two additional hardpoints and reduce the weight of Aircraft. Thats IT!

JF-17 with French RC-400 radar along with MICA missiles will more than fulfills its objective.

For AESA radars, it would be nice to see them on J-10.

 

[Neo]

Keep in mind that JF-17 Block I won't need an AESA for its primary roles. We've entered the era of netcentric warfare where Awacs can do the same if not better job for the pilot and whole formation by interlinks.

Munir has a point that AESA is an overkill for smaller planes, specially JF-17 which lacks range to perform deep interdict strikes and therefor will not operate in deeper hostile aesospace.

Future Block II but certainly FC-20 are better candidates for the AESA and will have IDS/DP capability.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

I am no fan of AESA on small fighters. It comes intresting on MKI/F15 size... You need awful lot space for cooling, hardware and I hope that AEW&C could do that much better... I would not add 5 million radar on a plane worth 15 million.

Are you for real, AESA packaging and cooling solutions are more compact and efficient then any other mechanicl counterpart. Infact that is also one of the major advantages of AESA. Do you have any idea how much heat mechanical radars emit and the amount of hardware and cooling solutions required for conventonal radars.

IPF

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Munir has a point that AESA is an overkill for smaller planes, specially JF-17 which lacks range to perform deep interdict strikes and therefor will not operate in deeper hostile aesospace.

Neo I think you forgot an important feature of AESA which is stealth. Jf 17 is primarily designed for interception and when faced with Indian deep strike package like MKI or MRCA, it is always better to be low observable ...

IPF

 

[Munir]

Are you for real, AESA packaging and cooling solutions are more compact and efficient then any other mechanicl counterpart. Infact that is also one of the major advantages of AESA. Do you have any idea how much heat mechanical radars emit and the amount of hardware and cooling solutions required for conventonal radars.

IPF

Another person with hardly reliable info... Sorry to say but I have read a lot more about AESA then average poster. You should think how F22 had to change lots of things just bacause of cooling... Resetting computers was one of the problems!

You still have no money to buy a decent aircraft but you want the best possible radar on it? Let me give you a thumbrule... AESA is okay if multi engined and atleast 4 BVR... Otherwise you have performed a circus act like giving Bison BVR capability I spoke to pilots that fly Romanian BVR Mig21. They did agee... Not happy but still agreed.

Can I hear more of you background? I do not expect that someone with electronics or aviation background can say that AESA is easier to install then conventional radars..

BTW it is not stealth. Anything that emits signals can be tracked. The problem is you need more computing power cause the radar can scan in sectors and so others will not able to track the signal...

>>>Standard equipment for fifth-generation fighters, Active Electronically Scanned Array radars are breathing new life into legacy military and Coast Guard aircraft
Ed McKenna

The operational launch of the F-22 Raptor clearly signaled a changing of the guard for the United States fighter force. Bristling with advanced sensors and weapons systems, the fifth-generation Raptor, along with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, will take the lead in future war fighting efforts.

These new aircraft are also prompting a renewed retrofit focus on former generation fighters, including the addition of next-generation technologies to make many F/A-18, F-15 and F-16 fighters viable over the next two decades.

Critical to these upgrade efforts is Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. This technology, which is standard on the fifth-generation aircraft, will become the sensor backbone for many of the earlier platforms. Lauded for its versatility, AESA radar also is being deployed on U.S. Coast Guard HC-130H surveillance aircraft and fighters destined for international customers.

Despite the operational and financial benefits, the campaign to outfit legacy fighters with AESA technology is running into some challenges, namely power, cooling and system costs.

AESA is the "latest and greatest (and) most desirable radar technology out there," said William Ostrove, electronics analyst for Forecast International, Newtown, Conn. The growth in AESA sales will help boost the worldwide radar market to $50 billion over the next 10 years, Ostrove said. Radars based on mechanically scanned arrays will still make up the bulk of the systems on the market, but the more expensive AESA units will account for a growing percentage of production over the decade.

AESA manufacturers, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman top Forecast International’s list of radar producers. There are also a number international consortia and companies involved, such as Selex Galileo, Thales and Israel Aerospace Industries.

Carving out a niche in the U.S. military market, AESA radar is also being sought by a number of countries that are purchasing aircraft, such as Singapore and United Arab Emirates. The Indian air force has made AESA radar a requirement in its Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition. That tender for 126 aircraft features a faceoff between six of the world’s leading fighter aircraft — the Lockheed Martin F-16, Boeing