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Chabahar Port: India Losing Against China – OpEd

I think four countries (Paikstan, Iran, India,China) can work toghter since we're all for posperity of the region , everyone will have a fair share of the business development, by connecting Gwadar to Chabahar instead of competiting each other, both can complemented each other...less problem for four nations mean more business development ...not bad idea at all:enjoy:

As far as Pakistan is concerned until there is a solution to our territorial dispute with India there is not much else to talk to them about. Like I already said before at most they can dangle small trade in front of Pakistans PM here and there and he will bite for his own interest but even he knows his limits.

Brother we had same cooperation with them like Nepal and we had free border agreement till 1965 when they attacked.



Also they claim Kashmir on the bases of Muslim majority which we have the Instrument of Accession to the Union of India signed on 26 October 1947, and accepted the following day.

640px-Kashmir-Accession-Document-a.jpg

640px-Kashmir-Accession-Document-b.jpg


Kashmir conflict
Kashmir was a Muslim-majority princely state, ruled by a Hindu[10] king, Maharaja Hari Singh. At the time of the partition of India, Maharaja Hari Singh, the ruler of the state, preferred to remain independent and did not want to join either the Union of India or the Dominion of Pakistan. He wanted both India and Pakistan to recognise his princely state as an independent neutral country like Switzerland.[11] He wanted to make his state the Switzerland of the East since the population of the state depended on tourism and persons from all regions could come to an independent Jammu and Kashmir with ease. For this reason, he offered a standstill agreement (for maintaining the status quo) to both India and Pakistan. India refused the offer but Pakistan accepted it.

Despite the standstill agreement, team of Pakistani forces were dispatched into Kashmir. Backed by Pakistani paramilitary forces, Pashtun Mehsud tribals[12] invaded Kashmir in October 1947 under the code name "Operation Gulmarg" to seize Kashmir. They reached and captured Baramulla on 25 October. Instead of moving on to Srinagar just 50 km away and capturing its undefended airfield, they stayed there for several days. Kashmir's security forces turned out to be too weak and ill-equipped to fight against Pakistan. Fearing that this invasion would bring about an accession to Pakistan, the Maharaja now turned to India and requested India for troops to safeguard Kashmir. Indian Prime Minister Nehru was ready to send the troops, but the acting Governor General of India, Lord Mountbatten of Burma, advised the Maharaja to accede to India before India could send its troops. Hence, considering the emergent situation he signed the instrument of accession to the Union of India on 26 October 1947 (see the two-page document's photo below).

Charles Chevenix Trench writes in his 'The Frontier Scouts' (1985):

In October 1947... tribal lashkars hastened in lorries - undoubtedly with official logistic support - into Kashmir... at least one British Officer, Harvey-Kelly took part in the campaign. It seemed that nothing could stop these hordes of tribesmen taking Srinagar with its vital airfield. Indeed nothing did, but their own greed. The Mahsuds in particular stopped to loot, rape and murder; Indian troops were flown in and the lashkars pushed out of the Vale of Kashmir into the mountains. The Mahsuds returned home in a savage mood, having muffed an easy chance, lost the loot of Srinagar and made fools of themselves.

In the words of Gen Mohammad Akbar Khan (Brigadier-in-Charge, Pakistan, in his book "War for Kashmir in 1947"): "The uncouth raiders delayed in Baramulla for two (whole) days for some unknown reason."[13]

While the invading Pakistanis spread across the State and looted Baramulla town just 50 km from the state capital, Srinagar, for several days starting 25 October 1947, the Maharaja signed Instrument of Accession to the Dominion of India on 26 October 1947. Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah had already reached Delhi a day earlier on 25 October to persuade Nehru to send troops. He made no secret of the danger the State faced and asked Nehru to lose no time in accepting the accession and ensuring the speedy dispatch of Indian troops to the State. (Sheikh Abdullah corroborates this account in his Aatish e Chinaar (at pages 416 and 417) and records (at page 417) that V.P. Menon returned to Delhi on 26 October with signed Instrument of accession.)[14] These are photos of the two-page Instrument of Accession.


The Instrument of Accession to the Union of India signed on 26 October 1947, and accepted the following day.

Page 2, Instrument of Accession, with signatures of Maharaja Hari Singh of Jammu and Kashmir, and Viscount Mountbatten of Burma, Governor-General of India.
The Instrument was accepted by the Governor-General of India the next day, 27 October 1947. With this signing by the Maharaja and acceptance by the Governor-General, the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir became a part of Dominion of India as per the Indian Independence Act 1947 passed by the British parliament.

By this time the raiders were close to the capital, Srinagar. Indian troops were airlifted from Delhi, landed at Srinagar airport in Kashmir on 27 October 1947 and secured the airport before proceeding to evict the invaders from Kashmir valley.

The Indian troops managed to evict the aggressors from parts of Kashmir but the onset of winter made much of the state impassable. After weeks of intense fighting between Pakistan and India, Pakistani leaders and the Indian Prime Minister Nehru declared a ceasefire and sought U.N. arbitration with the promise of a plebiscite. Sardar Patel had argued against both, describing Kashmir as a bilateral dispute and its accession as justified by international law.

In 1957, north-western Kashmir was fully integrated into Pakistan, becoming Azad Kashmir (Pakistan-administered Kashmir). In 1962, China occupied Aksai Chin, the northeastern region bordering Ladakh. In 1984, India launched Operation Meghdoot and captured more than 80% of the Siachen Glacier.

Pakistan now maintains Kashmiris' right to self-determination through a plebiscite and the promised plebiscite should be allowed to decide the fate of the Kashmiri people. India on the other hand asserts that with the Maharaja's signing the instrument of accession, Kashmir has become an integral part of India. Elections in the state to the state legislature and the national parliament have also led to no separatist or secessionist ever being elected, reflecting the will of the people of the state.

Due to all such political differences, this dispute has been the subject of wars between the two countries in 1947 and 1965, and a limited conflict in 1999. The state remains divided between the two countries by the Line of Control (LoC), which demarcates the ceasefire line agreed upon in the 1947 conflict modified in 1972 as per Simla Agreement.



Likewise Jungadh joined Pakistan but India invaded it anyway and Hyderabad wanted to remain independent but India invaded that as well or did you forget those two instances? Likewise we do not give a **** about what the Maharaja signed its value is equivalent to toilet paper as the majority of the people of the state wanted to join Pakistan and any vote on the matter would end in Pakistan's favor.
 
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@Chinese-Dragon

India have nothing to offer for Pakistan. Plus India cannot be trusted unless they pull out from IOK/Maqbooza Kashmir.

Chinese people need to understand Indians more better. Indians are ultra hyper nationalistic people, they are neither friends of Russia's, nor USA's & not China's too...They can ditch Russia(who help them in 48,71 wars) when their interests converge with West & they can ditch Israel(who helped them in 99 war) in order to keep their oil inflow & labor migration to Middle East intact.

In any business if you said to otherside that they can not be trusted or they dont have nothing to offer...than the business is over...I dont think that is a right approach regardless if Indians are ultra hyper nationalistic people. you have to work on the impossible to find the solution.
 
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In any business if you said to otherside that they can not be trusted or they dont have nothing to offer...than the business is over...I dont think that is a right approach regardless if Indians are ultra hyper nationalistic people. you have to work on the impossible to find the solution.

He said we are ultra hyper nationalistic people so i will ask you if Turkey ask the xinjiang province from China on the basis of Muslim population then what would you do ?

If having Muslim religion was enough to claim any territory so why there are more than 50+ muslim countries in the world fighting eachother ?
 
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Pakistan will make sure that China establishes its foothold in the region and provides economic development, military and diplomatic muscle to other S.Asian states to counter the Indian bully.

India is detrimental to the peace and balance of power in the region for its the only country with expantionlist ambitions rooted in its historic self hatered and bigoted version of nationalist history.

Pakistan is a force that balances the region. Without us all small states would be a target of Indian hegemony. Therefore its pivotal for Pakistan to do everything in its power to help its greatest friend become the eminent power in S.Asia and help it work with the middle east as well.

Iran and Afghanistan will soon realize that India is like a balloon. They talk more than they act and they can't help it. When Afghanistan, Iran and GCC are squarely dragged into the Chinese camp, it will sort out India's aspirations of hegemonic control for good.
 
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As far as Pakistan is concerned until there is a solution to our territorial dispute with India there is not much else to talk to them about. Like I already said before at most they can dangle small trade in front of Pakistans PM here and there and he will bite for his own interest but even he knows his limits.

China still have some residual territorical dispute with India that doesn't prevent us from have an economy relation with them, same for China-Japan over the Island, we hate each other to core but we're still the great economy partner, I think Pakistan can learn from China's experience.

He said we are ultra hyper nationalistic people so i will ask you if Turkey ask the xinjiang province from China on the basis of Muslim population then what would you do ?
If having Muslim religion was enough to claim any territory so why there are more than 50+ muslim countries in the world fighting eachother ?
Every nation have ultra nationalist, some Indian brothers labeled me as one of ...:D, but here we're talking the regional cooperation in which every ultra nationalist will find the gain and zero lost : Paksitan will gain the transit fee, China and India get what we want, Iran can deliver oils and gaz to much distance customer...all are winner on this cooperation.
 
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@Chinese-Dragon

India have nothing to offer for Pakistan. Plus India cannot be trusted unless they pull out from IOK/Maqbooza Kashmir.

Chinese people need to understand Indians more better. Indians are ultra hyper nationalistic people, they are neither friends of Russia's, nor USA's & not China's too...They can ditch Russia(who help them in 48,71 wars) when their interests converge with West & they can ditch Israel(who helped them in 99 war) in order to keep their oil inflow & labor migration to Middle East intact.

Friend, thank you for typing this warning, but it will fall on deaf ears for most Chinese. Most Chinese people, be it here or in real life only see $$$ as their best friend. Unfortunate but true. That is why the Chinese government want to invest $300b in India infrastructure. They don't care if India become more powerful or bite them in the *** 50 years in the future. They will let their future generation deal with that problem.

The thinking is, rather naive, just like how past emperors used to think: China is so much stronger than India, no matter how much they advance, they cannot defeat us. That's what the Ming, Yuan, Qing and all past dynasties thought about foreign powers. Now they are history.

That is the Chinese thinking for the most part. Money is king.
 
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Pakistan will make sure that China establishes its foothold in the region and provides economic development, military and diplomatic muscle to other S.Asian states to counter the Indian bully.

India is detrimental to the peace and balance of power in the region for its the only country with expantionlist ambitions rooted in its historic self hatered and bigoted version of nationalist history.

Pakistan is a force that balances the region. Without us all small states would be a target of Indian hegemony. Therefore its pivotal for Pakistan to do everything in its power to help its greatest friend become the eminent power in S.Asia and help it work with the middle east as well.

Iran and Afghanistan will soon realize that India is like a balloon. They talk more than they act and they can't help it. When Afghanistan, Iran and GCC are squarely dragged into the Chinese camp, it will sort out India's aspirations of hegemonic control for good.
wishes glimps and stories you make up
pakistan has become a rogue state for the world not S asia alone

India took the Chabahar route because pakistan didn't want India to access central asia
It is our right to trade, you allow your nations route or not. Please don't bring you ambitions into a sound debate about economics
 
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I think four countries (Paikstan, Iran, India,China) can work toghter since we're all for posperity of the region , everyone will have a fair share of the business development, by connecting Gwadar to Chabahar instead of competiting each other, both can complemented each other...less problem for four nations mean more business development ...not bad idea at all:enjoy:
Realistically all the countries in the world should work together, but reality is reality my friend.
 
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Realistically all the countries in the world should work together, but reality is reality my friend.

I know, it's too good to be truth but if we dont even bother to try than nothing will progress.
 
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I am pleasantly surprised when I see one of my articles that I wrote in 2012 still being visited. My point in that article then was that India had been overreacting about the Chinese assistance extended in the construction of the Gwadar port in the Baluchistan province of Pakistan.

India has been creating the hype that the Chinese presence in Gwadar is not only a serious threat for India, but it would also give China extra leverage in the region. India also claimed that China had acquired management control of Gwadar to use it as its naval base. This mantra was aimed at seeking support of United States and Russia, who consider China a major in the region.

Indian propaganda has also aimed at creating an impression that Afghanistan was highly unhappy and it is willing to join hands with India to move its shipments through Chabahar port. India also tried to pass on the message to Central Asian countries that the port, located in warm waters, and the road and rail network being constructed would become a gateway for them to the rest of world. Additionally, there has been a regular news fest about Iranian, Afghani and Indian cooperation.

That said, one of the news sources quoting Iranian authorities, opened the Pandora box and unleashed the disinformation being spread by India. In a meeting, Hassan Nourian, Iran’s Consul General in India exposed the extent of cooperation being extended by India.

Being a seasoned diplomat, Nourian expressed hope that India would act fast on the Chabahar port, which it had promised to build as far back as 2003. The message in between the lines was loud and clear — that Iranians were upset with Indian attitude.

India’s exasperatingly slow progress in building the port — 11 years so far and work has not even begun — has been a major source of irritation for the Iranians. After all, they gave the project to India rejecting a Chinese offer. Since then, the Chinese have finished building the Gwadar port in Pakistan that is located 70 kilometers east of Chabahar.

It seems that the Iranians have realized, though very late, the reason why India wanted the project — to thwart the Chinese. It has also become evident why the India is dragging its feet — for fear of annoying the US.

For Iran, the Chabahar port is of great economic importance and its great economic and strategic significance is also known to India. The port has the potential to open a route that leads to Afghanistan, a lucrative market today, and beyond, to the mineral-rich countries such as Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

As Iran is annoyed there emerges an opportunity for China, which is one of the biggest buyers of Iranian oil, seeking a port outside Strait of Hurmaz. India has also realized that the game is slipping out of its hands. If India loses Chabahar to the Chinese, it would greatly undermine much talked about Indian supremacy in the Indian Ocean.

Sri Lanka offered the Humbantota port development project to India, twice. The tsunami-ravaged port was in President Rajapaksa’s constituency and he was keen on re-building it. While India dithered, China jumped in. Humbantota has developed into a fine port. India ceded a key strategic space in its own backyard to China. No one could be blamed except India, because UPA partner DMK didn’t let India do any development work in Sri Lanka. Now, Chabahar is going the Humbantota way.

While India drags its feet in Myanmar, China is moving in fast. While India (in fact, NHPC) dumped the two hydro-electric projects terming those “too expensive”, China is going ahead with as many as 33 projects.

The port of Sittwe is critically important for India, for it would open up the North East. India did secure the project — it was given to the Essar Group. There have been delays, but the work has begun. However, the project is only a part of what India had committed to doing, which was to build the entire multi-modal transport corridor — the Kaladan project. For parts of the project other than the port, even the tenders have not been floated.

At this stage, place after place in India’s neighborhood, including Afghanistan, are likely to slip out of its dominance and going under China’s influence.

This is happening only because of the dichotomy of Indian policies — it on one hand tries to extract all the possible benefits by making false promises and on the other hand desert those projects once the United States and Russia enhance increase aid and assistance that helps in achieving the status of regional super power and creating its hegemony in South Asia.

Chabahar Port: India Losing Against China - OpEd | Eurasia Review
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Some time I'm wondering wouldn't be better that India cooperate with China on infrastructure projects than alway label China as threat and end up empty handed ?.
We haven't been dragging our feet on the project becuz of fear of the US,we have been dragging on the project becuz of a Shitty govt[Now gone & replaced by a good one]& a equally shitty Bureaucracy [Now in being reformed] Just wanted to set that straight.Do explain the Last part about Aid & Assistance from Russia & USA & yes i think cooperation with china will be good thing.
By the way look what happens when you have a good govt [you would probably know it]
Narendra Modi government puts Iran's Chabahar port work on fast track - Economic Times
 
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wishes glimps and stories you make up
pakistan has become a rogue state for the world not S asia alone

India took the Chabahar route because pakistan didn't want India to access central asia
It is our right to trade, you allow your nations route or not. Please don't bring you ambitions into a sound debate about economics


Every year we deny India over 100-120 Billion dollar trade by simply refusing the trade transit. That means India is losing out on gigantic amounts of cash every year. We will continue to deny, till Kashmiris are denied their right to self determinantion, We will also seek to replace India with China through our own influance, including in Afghanistan and Iran.
 
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Lol India not even built it's own cities yet and went to other country to build port... Hehe
 
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I believe that Pakistan will accept if India can come with an interesting offer. Beside Gwadar, there is alot projects in Sri-Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, Bangladesh that both China-India can cooperate such as the finished gaz pipeline connecting Myanmar port to Kunming which India is also a parner.

pipeline+map.gif

Drugs are bad for you man,stop doing them.Seriously though Cooperation with China has gone to NO NO from UPA regime to YES YES why the hell not to MODI Regime,but PK is special case,I hate to say it but i will probably be dead before anything like that happens & i am under 20
 
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Friend, thank you for typing this warning, but it will fall on deaf ears for most Chinese. Most Chinese people, be it here or in real life only see $$$ as their best friend. Unfortunate but true. That is why the Chinese government want to invest $300b in India infrastructure. They don't care if India become more powerful or bite them in the *** 50 years in the future. They will let their future generation deal with that problem.

The thinking is, rather naive, just like how past emperors used to think: China is so much stronger than India, no matter how much they advance, they cannot defeat us. That's what the Ming, Yuan, Qing and all past dynasties thought about foreign powers. Now they are history.

That is the Chinese thinking for the most part. Money is king.

You always say this. :lol:

Luckily Xi Jinping and the Politburo are much more understanding of China's interests than you are.

Even if we do not invest, we cannot stop others from investing, and others will jump at the opportunity.

America is trying your "containment" strategy, selectively blocking off Chinese investment on national security grounds, and even having a NASA exclusion policy for any Chinese nationals (even students), which cut us off from the International space station, among other things.

Has it slowed China down? No, it has only made us more self-sufficient, even with NASA's exclusion policy we have all the space based weapons, from ASAT, to the world's very first ASBM (DF-21D), to even testing HGV at higher speeds than America has. Not to mention our very own space station. Chinese investment is booming all over the world, even if America blocks us off.

Their containment is a failed strategy, if anything it has made us stronger and more self-sufficient. Their arms embargo imposed after 1989 for instance has led to us becoming almost entirely self-sufficient in the defence industry.

Containment is a short-sighted policy, and we know that best of all, having been on the receiving end for half a century. Engagement and cooperation to increase our own national power, now that is a real long-term strategy.
 
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