CAS Mujahid Anwar: Whatever capabilities the IAF acquires, PAF will match it

[TheTallGuy]

I was actually asking @TheTallGuy to share some detail.

The reason we always wanted to have F-16s was because of Technology. since we have the technology available now that was never available from US or never will be made available. so F-16s will finish their service no more F-16s purchased not even the used one.

PAF has better Equipment at hand and planned in future.

 

[Vergennes]

The one aspect of Rafales, that keeps getting ignored over here is Spectra (offensive / defensive) integrated suite. Our access to DRFM is still, at least publicly, restricted. Even if Pakistan fields enough JF-17 Block IIIs with PL-15s to counteract a low number of Rafales at the other end, how far would its integrated EW capabilities match up to Spectra?

May I share you some feedbacks about the Spectra suite.

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570228715962368

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570657566900224

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571099852079104

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571273550786560

Keep in mind that the Spectra suite is actually being upgraded on the newest Rafale standards.

 

[The Eagle]

The reason we always wanted to have F-16s was because of Technology.

True that F-16s are capable war fighting machines.

never will be made available.

Wanted to know if that is your opinion or more of something like a birdie tells you? Just curious and asking for my knowledge.

so F-16s will finish their service no more F-16s purchased not even the used one.

That means US denied to sell us any top of the line Tech along with F-16s and we do have similar solution hence, there is no procurement plan though, will be saying goodbye?

PAF has better Equipment at hand

To be honest with you, Viper + AESA has its own class.

planned in future.

There is no doubt about that part. We are taking all the steps carefully and in view of budget constrains.

May I share you some feedbacks about the Spectra suite.

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570228715962368

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570657566900224

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571099852079104

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571273550786560

Keep in mind that the Spectra suite is actually being upgraded on the newest Rafale standards.

An upgrading enemy is yet another reason to let you upgrade as well to balance the power otherwise; there is no honour of boundary at all. As long as our enemy upping the game with dolling out cash a lot; a country like Pakistan will always come up with solution to counter threat as such in limited cost. No doubt PAF has been doing so since a while & such intelligence comes due to the constrains & sanctions making us to work more onto solutions with low costs.

 

[kursed]

May I share you some feedbacks about the Spectra suite.

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570228715962368

https://twitter.com/x/status/641570657566900224

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571099852079104

https://twitter.com/x/status/641571273550786560

Keep in mind that the Spectra suite is actually being upgraded on the newest Rafale standards.

PAF is already expecting headaches originating from Spectra. Anyone who undermines it, is just not being professional.

 

[PradoTLC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1219906026603995136

Meteor answer is PL 15 but what will be PAF answer to Rafale then?

ensure only indians fly it.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Wanted to know if that is your opinion or more of something like a birdie tells you? Just curious and asking for my knowledge.

birdie told me too much...so if it sounds too good! you know the answer...

That means US denied to sell us any top of the line Tech along with F-16s and we do have similar solution hence, there is no procurement plan though, will be saying goodbye?

all i know is 76 F-16s we have willl remain 76 and retire at 76

To be honest with you, Viper + AESA has its own class.

Still 4.5 Gen

There is no doubt about that part. We are taking all the steps carefully and in view of budget constrains.

project Azm is replacement for F16/JF17 Block 3 and above. i am hinting at the requirement of silver bullet.

 

[Caprxl]

F-16 Option is dead...PAF has moved forward.

who knows , maybe just Maybe . Well have to wait for some time , eventually we will know has PAF moved on or not. Fingers crossed.

My dear brothers @Caprxl @Trailer23 @kursed

Was going through this whole thread just to find all sorts of misconceptions and delusions of our fellow members as well as poor thinking in some terms !!

Some observations and my take

- GRIPPEN : Grippen is and never was a feasible and productive solution when Thunder program is already ON and only an infant might think of such !!! Just the western “TAG” mindset leads many to take any over-hyped platforms superior to what we COULD POSSIBLY do ourselves sooner and that sooner is definitely in terms of Block 3 as well as better in terms of Block 4.

- Rafale And China : India is not and will never go to war with China, write that and teach that to your generations. Rafales were always meant for Pakistan and india can never try to come half closer to China’s military might. Expect rafales to be stationed away from Pakistan but close to us during heated times.

- ‘Aerial ONLY counter’ stigma :
Air warfare and counter is a highly complex scenario. SAMs, EW warfare and special crafts, All have their roles. Days are over when aircraft for aircraft mentality actually mattered. PAF as well as PN have proved themselves quite excellent in this area and expect them to build up even more in this. India oversees the potential of this capability and only cares for numbers UNTIL NOW

- RAFALE WITHOUT METEOR = JFT B3

Nope, wrong call !!! First of, we don’t know the specs of B3 and specifically EW Capabilities. Rafale is not just a BVR threat, it is a highly potent EW threat as well as WVR threat. One can oversee US, China, Russia, Italian capabilities but French are not ordinary like all of them, they know what they do and they are best at that !!! Never underestimate the French capabilities and SPECTRA EW is not some small boy in a park.

- Procurements

Expect much more interest in EW equipments as well as highly capable SAMs and Links.
Fighters, Block 3 should be in numbers nothing less than 100 with a plan for Block 4 and further totaling a thunder fleet to 500+.

Second approach should be to as well procure Block 70 and V upgrades as you can get them very much and will be a direct answer to Rafale. This isn’t impossible and i think this is in works already.

Least probable scenario involves inevitable threat of conflict with PAF GOING off the shelf for J-10Cs 3-4 Squadrons

Couldn't agree more brother.

 

[TheTallGuy]

who knows , maybe just Maybe . Well have to wait for some time , eventually we will know has PAF moved on or not. Fingers crossed.

Correct Who Knows! but Why? If we have something that is better technologically/Effective as as weapon system. There is new confidence that has developed after last year on Chinese tech...it has been combat proven. why we loved F-16s because it was combat proven & effective. heck we had LFK601 experiment in live/combat situation.

 

[notorious_eagle]

What counter measures do you have against Brahmos once you have detected it.

From the top of my head as to what PAF might do:

1. PAF would launch A2A or G2A missiles at the incoming Brahmos, as the Brahmos massive IR signature would light up all of PAF's radars, would be relatively straight forward to guide a response at the Missile. Decision making and speed would be most effective here.
2. Radar controlled Air Defence Guns
3. A modern CIWS Phalanx has IR detection sensors, and can fire 4500 round per minute

This is just something from the top of my head. There is a reason why the US abandoned supersonic missiles, because they couldn't fly low and hug the terrain to avoid radar detection.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Once "Shahpar" is inducted/Revealed. then finally "Hypnosis" of F16 will be over and new "Love" will be born! among the Fans!

From the top of my head as to what PAF might do:

1. PAF would launch A2A or G2A missiles at the incoming Brahmos, as the Brahmos massive IR signature would light up all of PAF's radars, would be relatively straight forward to guide a response at the Missile. Decision making and speed would be most effective here.
2. Radar controlled Air Defence Guns
3. A modern CIWS Phalanx has IR detection sensors, and can fire 4500 round per minute

This is just something from the top of my head. There is a reason why the US abandoned supersonic missiles, because they couldn't fly low and hug the terrain to avoid radar detection.

Sir, I heard we can shoot down the incoming BMs by BVR missiles of fighters if placed & employed properly...but Brahmos...there is nothing we just have to ride it out. then give 1 is to 5 response.

Brahmos is Tactical! Unitary HE warhead

 

[notorious_eagle]

Once "Shahpar" is inducted/Revealed. then finally "Hypnosis" of F16 will be over and new "Love" will be born! among the Fans!



Sir, I heard we can shoot down the incoming BMs by BVR missiles of fighters if placed & employed properly...but Brahmos...there is nothing we just have to ride it out. then give 1 is to 5 response.

Lets agree to disagree

I would agree with your assessment if the Indians somehow manage to reduce its IR signature, but for now, as long as it has an IR signature of a truck, i have listed the way it can be countered.

 

[Mrc]

Counter measures and jamming can b used to fool the seeker of brahmos even ground attack version ..

Being non stealth is a huge draw back

 

[TheTallGuy]

Lets agree to disagree

I would agree with your assessment if the Indians somehow manage to reduce its IR signature, but for now, as long as it has an IR signature of a truck, i have listed the way it can be countered.

sir, i am not saying it cant be done...all i am saying is the speed which needed to react. since we shall be in reactive mode not in pre-emptive mode...that is why i said "we have to ride it out"

 

[blain2]

Oh really?
Whats our Rafale's anwer? JF 17 Blk 3?? Are we seriously comparing a medium weight fighter with our light weight fighter?
What about India inducting more Mig29UPGs+SU 30 MKIs+Tejas?
We are just inducting JF 17s thats too in limited numbers
Ok What about SU 30MKI and Brahmos Super sonic ALCM with range b/w 450-600km?
We dont have a Supersonic ALCM


What about Mig29UPGs+SU 30 MKIs+Tejas which are being inducted?

What does heavy or lightweight have to do in counter air ops? With a good AESA radar and long range BVR, JF-17 will give PAF a serious punch against the IAF. It does not matter what the other side pitches in the 4.5 gen category. The real game changer would be 5th generation aircraft.

There are a 120 JF-17s in service right now. Do you think any Indian incursion will test this entire inventory not to add the countless F-16s?

The idea is to ensure that we have an adequate response to any intrusions from the other side.

So what if the IAF have Su-30s with Brahmos? Don't we have ALCMs and LACMs to respond with? The response does not have to be type for type. It is the sum of capabilities at our disposal that gives us the deterrence.

Pakistan has multiple ways of hitting back at India and doing serious damage.

What is already established is each side's capability to inflict damage. The question is, does either side have the ability to defend against it. The answer is clearly no. So yes IAF can try sneaking in and launching attacks. But they cannot defend against attacks from Pakistan. We have, alhamdolillah, quite a few options at our disposal. And that is the very point being made by the ACM.

 

[KhanBaba2]

From the top of my head as to what PAF might do:

1. PAF would launch A2A or G2A missiles at the incoming Brahmos, as the Brahmos massive IR signature would light up all of PAF's radars, would be relatively straight forward to guide a response at the Missile. Decision making and speed would be most effective here.
2. Radar controlled Air Defence Guns
3. A modern CIWS Phalanx has IR detection sensors, and can fire 4500 round per minute

This is just something from the top of my head. There is a reason why the US abandoned supersonic missiles, because they couldn't fly low and hug the terrain to avoid radar detection.

Radars don't work on IR signature. For that you have IRST.

Which radars do you have that are rated to track and target missiles travelling at mach 3.

CIWS are short range. At that point the brahmos takes evasive measures.