Capability jump: IAF looks to buy fifth-generation F-35 fighter

[Zhukov]

Indian and Egyptian Defense procurement deals are so messed up as always. They waste so much resources all the time.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The 126 number is likely Shukla's opinion. The only news of value in the article is the IAF has asked for a classified briefing. My opinion is in case something like this happens, it will be similar to Rafale GTG with 2 or 3 squadrons in the first tranche. The IAF may release information on numbers if they decide they will buy it.

F-35 and FGFA are not in the same class and will not perform the same roles. No different from the US operating the F-22 and F-35.

If the F-35 deal happens, then it will come into play before the FGFA is inducted. So we could see discussion followed by contract signature by 2020-21 and deliveries from 2023 or 2024. FGFA could take as long as 2028 or even 2030 for the first squadron. It's already 2018 with no signature yet and the R&D program is at least 8 years long.

If the F-35 does go up to 126 jets, it will likely include indigenous production and will replace the SE MII program. So it will replace the need for F-16/Gripen.

Even if India goes for both platforms I doubt it will be in the timeline u mentioned(for F35). If history is any indication, it would take a while before any sort of contract is signed. The 2020-2021 contract signature date is too optimistic and almost a dream.

As for indigenous production of F35...this isn't Russia u would be dealing with. This is USA and F35 is a multi-nation project. US wouldn't be too keen on handing out its latest tech as has been demonstrated many times in the past. This matter gets complicated further by the fact that there's other countries involved(in the F35 project) who may also feel uneasy. They may just allow India to assemble these jets with kits provided by US/partner countries or in the best case scenario, India may be allowed to manufacture certain non crucial components.

 

[Daghalodi]

The 126 number is likely Shukla's opinion. The only news of value in the article is the IAF has asked for a classified briefing. My opinion is in case something like this happens, it will be similar to Rafale GTG with 2 or 3 squadrons in the first tranche. The IAF may release information on numbers if they decide they will buy it.

F-35 and FGFA are not in the same class and will not perform the same roles. No different from the US operating the F-22 and F-35.

If the F-35 deal happens, then it will come into play before the FGFA is inducted. So we could see discussion followed by contract signature by 2020-21 and deliveries from 2023 or 2024. FGFA could take as long as 2028 or even 2030 for the first squadron. It's already 2018 with no signature yet and the R&D program is at least 8 years long.

If the F-35 does go up to 126 jets, it will likely include indigenous production and will replace the SE MII program. So it will replace the need for F-16/Gripen.

Look at this BS!!! In another thread about tejas this person was claiming HAL tejas as super stealthy and super maneuverable and out of this world technology better than f16/Gripen.

Looks like tejas will die a painfull death.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

India will go for the F-35 and PAF will be in big trouble.

The F-35 and Su-57 will be a very potent combination. One is optimized for strike, the other is optimized for air superiority. There is nothing in PAF inventory that can handle either of them.

IF they manage to get both (a big IF), India will have assured air superiority with any adventure turning into a turkey shoot for PAF planes. Recent exercises indicate 5th generation planes are a game changer.

 

[Mav3rick]

Loooooool this gets better....by the time they decide the world will be on 8th gen

They don't take that long to make procurement.......making things indigenous is another matter.

However, such a deal could well be worth USD 20 Billion or over and first delivery would probably start in 10 years due to backlog of orders.

 

[madooxno9]

With the kind of red tape in India and and this freaking magical number of 126, we will be flying only bogus lca in 2050.

 

[Imran Khan]

man just skip 5th gen and direct go to 6th gen fighters

 

[randomradio]

Even if India goes for both platforms I doubt it will be in the timeline u mentioned(for F35). If history is any indication, it would take a while before any sort of contract is signed. The 2020-2021 contract signature date is too optimistic and almost a dream.

Rafale GTG was initiated in May-June 2015 and was completed by Jan 2016. Contract was signed in Sept 2016 because they had to wait for a new year for budgetary allocation post monsoon season.

Even MMRCA negotiations finished in 6 months, everything after that was just about haggling about costs that come from procedure changes due to differences in production processes HAL wanted to employ, followed by budget allocation problems.

If FMS negotiations for the F-35 begin, the process won't take longer than 6 months. Allocation will bring in delays, like it did with Rafale, but it will go through.

As for indigenous production of F35...this isn't Russia u would be dealing with. This is USA and F35 is a multi-nation project. US wouldn't be too keen on handing out its latest tech as has been demonstrated many times in the past. This matter gets complicated further by the fact that there's other countries involved(in the F35 project) who may also feel uneasy. They may just allow India to assemble these jets with kits provided by US/partner countries or in the best case scenario, India may be allowed to manufacture certain non crucial components.

As for license production, it depends. With the passing of the MDP law, India is now treated on par with countries like the UK, Turkey, Japan etc. We can buy whatever NATO can buy. So whatever ToT they will get for license production, India will get too. Other countries will have no objections if the US has no objections. They may be partners in the F-35, but they do not have ownership.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...nato-allies-keith-webster-117121100049_1.html

If you are looking at procedural hurdles, there is only one. DoD must clear IAF's request for a classified briefing. After that, it will be smooth sailing, all up to India to create the major hurdles. DoD's approval means they are willing to sell the F-35 to India, which means LM will be able to transfer tech through the MDP law.

 

[Mav3rick]

India will go for the F-35 and PAF will be in big trouble.

The F-35 and Su-57 will be a very potent combination. One is optimized for strike, the other is optimized for air superiority. There is nothing in PAF inventory that can handle either of them.

IF they manage to get both (a big IF), India will have assured air superiority with any adventure turning into a turkey shoot for PAF planes. Recent exercises indicate 5th generation planes are a game changer.

Ofcourse, in the meanwhile PAF would be polishing its 4th gen planes and practicing tactics of how to bury its neck in sand, right?

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

If Indian get f35 then wow simply wow this will boast their capabilities two fold but it all depend on timing. Sooner the better but it seem unlikely

 

[Mav3rick]

Point is, if they are able to buy only 16 of these fighters in the next five years, what's with us to counter them?

When push comes to shove, PAF might be getting its hands on 5th gen before IAF gets Rafale. I also read that the Chinese weren't interested in partnering on the 5th Gen platform with Russians; the floated reason was that the Chinese were convinced their 5th Gen technology was superior to Russian technology except for perhaps the engine.

Many of these are assumptions, but PAF needs to hold a technological advantage over Indian numerical superiority.

man just skip 5th gen and direct go to 6th gen fighters

This is what China should do.

6th Gen is autonomous platforms, true stealth, silent, self repairing/healing UCAV with no need to land (solar charging) and turbine-less propulsion, laser weaponry etc.......repairing can also be performed automatically by other members of the 'team' while airborne (where possible), identification of friend and for and instantaneous automated decision making using quantum processing and feedback of entire network.

 

[KapitaanAli]

As for license production, it depends. With the passing of the MDP law, India is now treated on par with countries like the UK, Turkey, Japan etc. We can buy whatever NATO can buy. So whatever ToT they will get for license production, India will get too. Other countries will have no objections if the US has no objections. They may be partners in the F-35, but they do not have ownership.

I don't even want us to waste time making something as advanced as F35 in India. We're gonna learn nothing of value from that farce.
All I want is offsets towards AMCA technology.

It will be much cheaper to buy from LockMart factory anyway.

 

[randomradio]

I don't even want us to waste time making something as advanced as F35 in India. We're gonna learn nothing of value from that farce.
All I want is offsets towards AMCA technology.

It will be much cheaper to buy from LockMart factory anyway.

Yeah. If we are going for some F-35, I would prefer it is restricted to 3 squadrons at best with may be, maaaay be final assembly. The offsets deal can bring in spares production and Tata Aerospace's capabilities will improve a lot.

But then, if the F-35 is actually an alternative to the F-16/Gripen production, then producing the F-35 is obviously the better option.

 

[帅的一匹]

I would love for India to go for F35. This would spell the end for FGFA(PAK-FA) joint venture. Russia, which was already reportedly unwilling to share some high end sensitive tech with India would become even less inclined to do so after seeing billions of dollars being used for F35 instead of going to Russia. On the other hand, unlike in the case of F16, the Americans(and other partners in F35 program) wouldn't want to share their top of the line 5th gen tech with India. So it would just end up being an off the shelf purchase with no ToT of any sort. Their might be some tech that may still come from the Russians bcuz of the money India had put up for PAK-FA project but it wouldn't really count for much.

If Indian quit PAKFA, the Su35 will go to PAF.

I don't think we will be able to buy J-20 due to restrictions on its exports.. J-31 yes.. but is it financially feasible?

F35A sold to India will pave the way for J20A to Pakistan.

 

[PakSword]

F35A sold to India will pave the way for J20A to Pakistan.

J-20 is equivalent to F-22.. so I don't think your government will allow it to be exported to Pakistan.

F-35 can be compared to J-31, which can be exported..