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Canadian man sentenced to death in first instance

Make deals with criminals and jury said you are criminal then you are,even if you are innocent!

dude, I suggest that you should stop talking about law, because you do not understand how law works.

Making deal is a process of prosecution, however, making "deal" does not mean you escape culpability of a crime, most deal were made to easy the transition of a crime and punishment, or to have the crime fast tracking into the system. Making "Deal", unlike on TVs , are not something a criminal wanted. Because to make deal, you need to admit to your crime.

And lol...….jury found you are innocent, then you are innocent, if the jury found you guilty, then you can appeal and have another jury look at the verdicts. The balance of law is not totally depend on any which side (Judge, Court or Jury) but a combination of all 3. Something China does not have and hence Chinese legal system is not Jurisprudence
 
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dude, I suggest that you should stop talking about law, because you do not understand how law works.

Making deal is a process of prosecution, however, making "deal" does not mean you escape culpability of a crime, most deal were made to easy the transition of a crime and punishment, or to have the crime fast tracking into the system. Making "Deal", unlike on TVs , are not something a criminal wanted. Because to make deal, you need to admit to your crime.

And lol...….jury found you are innocent, then you are innocent, if the jury found you guilty, then you can appeal and have another jury look at the verdicts. The balance of law is not totally depend on any which side (Judge, Court or Jury) but a combination of all 3. Something China does not have and hence Chinese legal system is not Jurisprudence
Sure,sure,yankees are the best of world!
Switzerland/Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc.: ehhh, what?


dude, I suggest that you should stop talking about law, because you do not understand how law works.

Making deal is a process of prosecution, however, making "deal" does not mean you escape culpability of a crime, most deal were made to easy the transition of a crime and punishment, or to have the crime fast tracking into the system. Making "Deal", unlike on TVs , are not something a criminal wanted. Because to make deal, you need to admit to your crime.

And lol...….jury found you are innocent, then you are innocent, if the jury found you guilty, then you can appeal and have another jury look at the verdicts. The balance of law is not totally depend on any which side (Judge, Court or Jury) but a combination of all 3. Something China does not have and hence Chinese legal system is not Jurisprudence
Sure,a man raped a girl, and get rid of it finnaly coz he is rich enough to hire famous lawyer,not about the evidence but about the means to get the evidence,so the evidences are invalide.
What a great system for rapists and rich men.
 
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Sure,sure,yankees are the best of world!
Switzerland/Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc.: ehhh, what?



Sure,a man raped a girl, and get rid of it finnaly coz he is rich enough to hire famous lawyer,not about the evidence but about the means to get the evidence,so the evidences are invalide.
What a great system for rapists and rich men.



Law is not and cannot straight forwardly explain. Unlike in China, everyone are presumed innocent until its proven guilty, and to be able to proven guilty, one have to proof BEYOND REASONABLE doubt that the accused is guilty of charge.

You want to live in a world where you are presumed guilt until proven otherwise is your opinion, just don't come to me and cry when you are arrested and sentenced for soemthing you did not do.

In the western system, it's better to let 100 rapist and rich people go than sentence 1 wrongly convicted person. If you don't value that, that's you. Not on the system.
 
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Its really hard to believe your claim to be a PhD holder in French, may I ask what are your dissertation?

Law is not and cannot straight forwardly explain. Unlike in China, everyone are presumed innocent until its proven guilty, and to be able to proven guilty, one have to proof BEYOND REASONABLE doubt that the accused is guilty of charge.

You want to live in a world where you are presumed guilt until proven otherwise is your opinion, just don't come to me and cry when you are arrested and sentenced for soemthing you did not do.

In the western system, it's better to let 100 rapist and rich people go than sentence 1 wrongly convicted person. If you don't value that, that's you. Not on the system.
Whatever you say dude.
My PHD of French need no approval from you.
Personal attack makes your point of view further challenged.

Tu as le droit de dire ce que tu veux.
 
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Whatever you say dude.
My PHD of French need no approval from you.
Personal attack makes your point of view further challenged.

Tu as le droit de dire ce que tu veux.

As I said, do tell me what is your dissertation and I will look up your PhD Thesis.

Otherwise I don't think people like you would ever be able to get a PhD to begin with. Unless your PhD is "Pretty Huge Dick" lol
 
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I think the problem is not about why death penalty, but rather "why no death penalty before"

The man should have been executed and should be sentenced accordingly in the first outing, you cannot give the man a retrial for whatever reason and resentence the man, people are mad about this, not the death sentence itself

so far there is no evidence if Chinese Government influence the decision, its just more of a Conspiracy and we all are aware the standard set by West itself that , if you have no prove than it never happened . For me I am happy that a Scum who have smuggle drugs to any country that destroy lives of many will meet his fate .
 
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China does not have a jurisprudence system...

In the west, under common law, jurisprudence is independent from any political system and is insulated from anything other the jurisprudence itself (The law is self) which make the 3 separate pillar in western civilization (Executive, Judiciary and Legislative Branch)

ON the other hand, Chinese court system is basically controlled by People's Committee, with the only one remotely not affected is the basic court (akin to local court system) but the basic court is not to deal with any serious offense.

The Appeal process is also inheritancely flawed. Instead of appeal system toward different level of court of appeal (eg in common law, we have district/circuit court, court of appeal, supreme court and Federal Court in the US) and what more important is that appeal court only work if the defendant initiate it. Meaning, as a government (Prosecution) you are not allowed to appeal the sentence if you win, otherwise it would be subject to double jeopardy.

In China, there are only 1 appeal court, that is the supreme court level, and while we use the term appeal, it's more of a review of the case and its circumstance, and as a matter of fact, supreme court in China are controlled by People Committee again, which make the decision depends on the political influence.

While I don't have sympathy to drug runner, this is actually not a surprise move from the Chinese. Were it fair? If you compare to US or UK court system, it wasn't, because the prosecution review would be subject to an action akin to "Retrial" which mean it's basically barred by the fact of common law does not allow a man to be trial twice for the same offence (Double Jeopardy), hence in face of common law, it's unfair. However, China does not use common law, (they uses a legal system called organic law) which mean they can and have the power to retrial people that was already convicted or acquitted of any crime. And it is fair game on Chinese system.

Don't forget, what kind of trial you may get is depends on the local system, if you know the risk of you are not getting a fair trial and still willingly committed the crime, then you should be expect to face up to the same system, not yours , when you get caught. As the old saying goes, if you can't do the time, then don't do the crime.



That's probably because the west does not, I say again, DOES NOT, distinguish between "Accessories" and "Principal" of a crime, both carry the same penalty, and more often than not, the "Principal" actually serve less time than "Accessories" the same crime, if the principal of the crime either started a plea deal, or the crime cannot be committed without the help of the accessories. (Especially in serious crime such as murder)

In Common Law, the person who smuggle the drug Is equally culpable than the person who finance the drug smuggling operation. Because the whole operation cannot work without runner on the ground, however, since runner on the ground are more common, and stopping them won't actually stop the operation, most of the time, DA would make deal with the drug runner, to take down the bigger fish. And the prosecution is more inclined to offer deal to the runner than to the dealer.

On the other hand, the second "trial" would not happened at all in the west, you can review its sentence but you cannot provide EXTRA evidence, because that would constitute a "Retrial" and in the west, you cannot retrial a person if a judgement has been handed down, which mean if the accused is to lodge a appeal, in the west, the court system would go over the transcript and see if there are aggravated factor or mitigated factored to either increase or decrease the sentence. But the scope only work on evidence already existed, not providing new evidence.

The second "Trial" would be unheard of in the west. but as I said in previous post, it is allowed in China, and this case happened in China, so there are no surprise there.

Completely different legal system, common law vs civil law. Common law are British system aim to protect the defendant, and it is possible to game the system via technicality. As long as you can beat the prosecution, you are home free even if you are guilty of the crime. Civil law or continental law are used in many European states as well, and its aim is to prosecute the guilty party to the fullest extend. That's why not only can the prosecution appeal the sentence, the superior court itself can review cases on its own accord and order a retrial. As long as you are guilty of the crime, there is no way in winning against the system. That's the whole point of the system.
 
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Completely different legal system, common law vs civil law. Common law are British system aim to protect the defendant, and it is possible to game the system via technicality. As long as you can beat the prosecution, you are home free even if you are guilty of the crime. Civil law or continental law are used in many European states as well, and its aim is to prosecute the guilty party to the fullest extend. That's why not only can the prosecution appeal the sentence, the superior court itself can review cases on its own accord and order a retrial. As long as you are guilty of the crime, there is no way in winning against the system. That's the whole point of the system.

First of all, Europe don't use a pure civil law system, most of the European Country uses a local system that absorb civil law into the variation of local law.

Secondly, Civll law have a different prosecution system, which is based on a merit type against the evidence, you do not need to prove someone guilt to be guilty of a crime, while you only need to prove the person is not innocent, and in civil law case, it was not require to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

However, we aren't talking about all these, we are talking about the jurisprudence of Chinese Legal System. While most European country is having a Civil law based system, most of them follow the theory of law, (In fact many law theory are written on Civil law in the 18 centuries, which based on the nature of law. ie, the Legal positivism, to which a closed and independent legal system can be reference without a rule of social legalism, and moral, political argument cannot be established or defended as proof.

If you want to discuss further in this, I can hand my account to my wife when she come back, she is a PhD in international law and a Juris Doctor in law.
 
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First of all, Europe don't use a pure civil law system, most of the European Country uses a local system that absorb civil law into the variation of local law.

Secondly, Civll law have a different prosecution system, which is based on a merit type against the evidence, you do not need to prove someone guilt to be guilty of a crime, while you only need to prove the person is not innocent, and in civil law case, it was not require to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

However, we aren't talking about all these, we are talking about the jurisprudence of Chinese Legal System. While most European country is having a Civil law based system, most of them follow the theory of law, (In fact many law theory are written on Civil law in the 18 centuries, which based on the nature of law. ie, the Legal positivism, to which a closed and independent legal system can be reference without a rule of social legalism, and moral, political argument cannot be established or defended as proof.

If you want to discuss further in this, I can hand my account to my wife when she come back, she is a PhD in international law and a Juris Doctor in law.

As it is stated, the retrial is based on the law of the country. It is certainly not the same as the British common law, nor should it be. Your perception of political influence is but your perception as the appeal and retrial do not and cannot serve as evidence of such.
 
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As it is stated, the retrial is based on the law of the country. It is certainly not the same as the British common law, nor should it be. Your perception of political influence is but your perception as the appeal and retrial do not and cannot serve as evidence of such.

The reason why a person CANNOT be retrial is based on the fact of Double Jeopardy, which is one of the most important Legal Positivism as stated before. Even European with Civil Law system would have Double Jeopardy protection. (in France, Germany, Netherland and so on)

Also, retrial is one issue, granting the person death penalty on retrial is another issue, the first one is Jurisprudence issue, while the second one is maybe of political issue, and I never said anything about the man being sentenced to death was a mistake, in fact, I am for him to be executed, my point, as stated, is always he should not be able to be retrial without proper procedure safeguarding his own right, China don't have this right, hence China does not follow Jurisprudence, do you understand me?

I will ask my wife to response to you once she came back from her work.
 
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The reason why a person CANNOT be retrial is based on the fact of Double Jeopardy, which is one of the most important Legal Positivism as stated before. Even European with Civil Law system would have Double Jeopardy protection. (in France, Germany, Netherland and so on)

Also, retrial is one issue, granting the person death penalty on retrial is another issue, the first one is Jurisprudence issue, while the second one is maybe of political issue, and I never said anything about the man being sentenced to death was a mistake, in fact, I am for him to be executed, my point, as stated, is always he should not be able to be retrial without proper procedure safeguarding his own right, China don't have this right, hence China does not follow Jurisprudence, do you understand me?

I will ask my wife to response to you once she came back from her work.

Gary, you need to understand the terms before you respond.Learn his meaning of “civil law” vs common law. It’s not the same as civil law vs criminal law.

Also double jeopardy is an US feature, exceptScotland. Most of other systems have no double jeopardy and the prosecutor can appeal. Even in US, look up duel sovereignty.where the state and the feds can go after someone for the exact same crime.
 
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Gary, you need to understand the terms before you respond.Learn his meaning of “civil law” vs common law. It’s not the same as civil law vs criminal law.

Also double jeopardy is an US feature, exceptScotland. Most of other systems have no double jeopardy and the prosecutor can appeal. Even in US, look up duel sovereignty.where the state and the feds can go after someone for the exact same crime.

Civil Law, the legal system, which is what he is referring to, it's not "Criminal matter vs Civil matter"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)

And "Double Jeopardy" is indeed an US feature, that does not mean the world does not have similar feature that was called anything other than "Double Jeopardy", as I was not a legal professional, I don't know what they were "called" in their respective country, but as far as I know, France, Germany, UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Sweden, Ireland, Hong Kong all have a similar system as in "Double Jeopardy"

Again, if you wanted, I can ask my wife here to come talk to you instead of me, she is a legal professional, I am not.
 
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The reason why a person CANNOT be retrial is based on the fact of Double Jeopardy, which is one of the most important Legal Positivism as stated before. Even European with Civil Law system would have Double Jeopardy protection. (in France, Germany, Netherland and so on)

Also, retrial is one issue, granting the person death penalty on retrial is another issue, the first one is Jurisprudence issue, while the second one is maybe of political issue, and I never said anything about the man being sentenced to death was a mistake, in fact, I am for him to be executed, my point, as stated, is always he should not be able to be retrial without proper procedure safeguarding his own right, China don't have this right, hence China does not follow Jurisprudence, do you understand me?

Maybe a political issue, maybe not, you are simply insinuating. The initial sentencing is highly irregular considering the norm in the country for drug trafficking, and hence it is entirely within power and reasoning of the higher court to review and retrial the case with or without the actual appeal. Your reference to right of the defendant came directly out of natural law which is the direct opposite of legal positivism. What you consider the lack of jurisprudence is merely what conforms to the British common law. While some European state has adopted some principle of the British common law, it does not mean China should, nor does it mean one is without jurisprudence for rejecting the principle of common law.
 
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