Can you believe this, I can't.....

[wadi79]

Simple, because those muslims follow what their clerics teach them, rather than going to the source. The clerics have turned themselves into an authority on Islam, a concept that doesn't and shouldn't exist.



You have such examples in your country too...lynching muslims because of the suspicion they have beef in the fridge ring any bells?

We have isolated examples so far, but if we continue down that path, we shall end up like Pakistan, where Shias, Ahmadis and Christians are bombed at prayer, schools are attacked, polio vaccination centres are bombed, schoolgirls are shot at and religious scholars decree that 9 year old girls can 'marry'. Pakistan's fate should serve as a warning to anyone bringing religion into politics - especially in India.

Pakistan started well ahead of India in 1947 - most of Pakistan is the well-irrigated, highly fertile Punjab and it got billions and billions of dollars in aid from its Western sponsors. Yet, India is now ahead in per capita income and other measures. It has largely been the detrimental affect of mixing religion in politics and public life.

The founding fathers of India had shown great wisdom by keeping religion out of matters of state - we need to continue on that path.

 

[v9s]

but wouldn't removing the mullas constitute an act of reform in itself ?

doubt it can be done but I think religion is on it's way out anyway, eventually in the long term the muslims too will (hopefully) get fed up of it and move on, and that being the endgame, removing the clerics might well prove to be an important first step.

It'll take a ballsy and brutal dictator to initiate it, I've no faith in any sort of collective awakening, just not going to happen as long as the mullas still rule.

Well yeah. The current "Islam" you witness being preached and practiced has been corrupted beyond belief due to the generations of mullahs beginning from the early days of Islam.

There is a reformist and progressive movement of Islam happening behind the scenes. Unfortunately, it's not very public (its not a popular topic in MSM! Who wants to see progressive Islam? they'd rather focus on the weirdos).

We have isolated examples so far, but if we continue down that path, we shall end up like Pakistan, where Shias, Ahmadis and Christians are bombed at prayer, schools are attacked, polio vaccination centres are bombed, schoolgirls are shot at and religious scholars decree that 9 year old girls can 'marry'. Pakistan's fate should serve as a warning to anyone bringing religion into politics - especially in India.

Pakistan started well ahead of India in 1947 - most of Pakistan is the well-irrigated, highly fertile Punjab and it got billions and billions of dollars in aid from its Western sponsors. Yet, India is now ahead in per capita income and other measures. It has largely been the detrimental affect of mixing religion in politics and public life.

The founding fathers of India had shown great wisdom by keeping religion out of matters of state - we need to continue on that path.

Ok now you're painting with a wide brush, but I get your point.

 

[gutto786]

Are muslims ever going to understand. In quran Allah says:
﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ﴾
(There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.)''

And then again Allah says in Quran:
Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)

About the blind mission to turn the whole world into muslim and implement shariah:
Allah says: “If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” [Sûrah Yûnus: 99]

Also, to self proclaimed mujahideen, who think they are doing a service to islam, when even Prophet(PBUH) wasn't even given any duty but to remind people. That was his total Jurisdiction:
Allah says: “The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 99]

And in chapter 109 verse 6 Quran tells us:
To you your religion, and to me my religion!

Leave the religion to God, and start caring about ur grave rather than other people. The only thing you can do is to remind others by start being an example for them. Thats where our authority ends and beyond that its Gods authority. Stop selling Jannah, coz no one can guarantee Jannah except Allah. God says dont think that you can get Jannah through ur acts, its only Gods blessing on whomso ever he wishes.
In the end, if we are all on Gods mercy, we can only hope to get Gods mercy if we are merciful to Gods creation

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

why is there so much upheaval in the Islamic world then ? so much strife, conflict, oppression of women, fgm, wars, terror, jihad.. and it's all happening in the name of god.

You need a reality check; because in India there is, mass rapings, child sacrifices, low-caste persecution, dalit stoning/burning, those are SUSPECTED of eating beef get mobbed or lynched, four full fledged insurgencies, women oppression and so much more. Do they have any rights to represent Hinduism...?

 

[T-72M1]

You need a reality check; because in India there is, mass rapings, child sacrifices, low-caste persecution, dalit stoning/burning, those are SUSPECTED of eating beef get mobbed or lynched, four full fledged insurgencies, women oppression and so much more. Do they have any rights to represent Hinduism...?

what's happening here is nothing compared to Iraq/Syria, or Taliban terror in Afghanistan/Pakistan etc

 

[Tiger Genie]

You're a bit out-dated; Pakistan isnt Afghanistan or North Korea. 99% of the Madrassas teach us about peace, paying taxes, behavior, respect, and even patriotism; meanwhile 'Military establishments' provide the best facilities and education in Pakistan.

don't you see you have yourself admitted the very problem you are trying to say is outdated? so if you have just 1% madrassahs preaching terrorist jihad how many thousands of students is that? secondly, is it the military establishment's job to provide education and facilities?

If your children are to be given a chance at peace, you have to see the truth for what it is.

 

[Hamza913]

New source is yahoo i highly doubt it, if it happened for sure our media specially Geo will defiantly run a breaking news.

Even if it is true i highly doubt boy did it by himself i think his parents do this to save his life from angry mob since blasphemy allegation leveled against him.


He is not but the parents and the scum mullah who might encouraged him for the act.

I also think it might of been done to save his own life from some stupid mob. Inshallah Pakistan will execute each and every bastard who has taken part in killing people over false blasphemy accusations.

 

[barbarosa]

Islam is not only the religion of the Muslims but also the religion of the people of the world. If a person accept the Islam he will safe after the death, if not he will face to the hardness of the life after death for the million of years. There is no death after one death of this life. Allah almighty has said that I AM he who create meal (milk) from the blood and excrement for you. Are these all articles of the world borne it self, No these are born by some one ALLAH. k2 Himalayan mountains karakuram mountains mount Everest Hindu kush thread of mountains Indian ocean, pacific ocean, Atlantic air water trees birds animals fishes etc, why these things cannot act the demonstration of their power? because some one controlled them who is ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Your showing me how much you know of Islam.

1: Do you have any proof that Muhammad (SAW) married a 9 year old other than a patch of paper written by some random guy, 200 years after his death?

I don't, but a multitude of Islamic 'Scholars' and Mullahs, including the constitutionally protected CII, are arguing that apparently marrying a 9 year old is justifiable under 'Quran and Sunnah'.

2: Its not why they Insult the prophet but its how they do it; in the US you can call the Prophet whatever names you like but shit hits the fan as soon as you start depicting him in a disgusting - naked and arab/muslim stereotype. Guess what would happen to you If you went to a black or hispanic neighborhood waving racist posters around. This has more to do with culture of respect rather than religion.

It doesn't matter how the Prophet is depicted - it's just words and images and normal, mature, civilized human beings are expected to control their emotions and not react violently when confronted by verbal or visual speech that they disagree with - this applies equally to your example of what would happen in a black neighborhood if racist posters, slogans and pictures were waved around. A violent reaction in a black neighborhood to such a provocation should be condemned just as harshly.

3: Islam clearly defines what a Muslim is or not; the law simply prohibits Ahmadis from defining them selves as Muslims.

Islam does not define any such thing - Muslims who have declared themselves thekaydars of Islam and chosen to exploit and distort the faith to force others to follow their beliefs have done this. Only Allah can define Islam, and that shall be done on Judgement Day and in the hereafter.

4: The people who try to 'reform' Islam are people like "Al-Baghdadi and Osama" ; people who go blowing them selves up. Islam is perfect - there is nothing to reform about it.

Entities like Daesh, LeJ, TTP, AQ are not 'reforming Islam', they are merely taking the current distortions of Islam (child marriage, death for apostasy, death for blasphemy, intolerance for freedom and equality) to the next level. Look around you at the laws in place in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran - Laws against Blasphemy, Apostasy, speech, Ahmadis etc are at their core exactly what Daesh, LeJ, TTP, AQ are implementing. That's why anti-Islam critics in the West argue in the media that 'Daesh and Taliban are implementing the true Islam'.

The real reform in Islam will be to completely eliminate any punishment for Blasphemy, apostasy and to completely eliminate any laws that prevent Ahmadis or others from freely practicing their faith.

why is there so much upheaval in the Islamic world then ? so much strife, conflict, oppression of women, fgm, wars, terror, jihad.. and it's all happening in the name of god.

We have people who are incapable of understanding the difference between 'Islam' and 'interpretations of Islam'.

This is a clever ploy by the traditional regressive Mullah's and Islamic Scholars - in order to perpetuate their depraved and hideous distortions of Islam they've conflated the idea of Islam and interpretations of Islam.

Muslims are taught from child hood that 'Islam is perfect, Islam is the final religion, the Quran is unchanged'. Once that particular idea is entrenched, then any attempt to challenge the Mullah's perverted interpretations of Islam is countered with rage and allegations of 'Blasphemy'.

The Blasphemy laws in Islam are perhaps the single biggest obstacle to reforming the traditional regressive interpretations of Islam.

 

[Musafir117]

Your showing me how much you know of Islam.

1: Do you have any proof that Muhammad (SAW) married a 9 year old other than a patch of paper written by some random guy, 200 years after his death?

2: Its not why they Insult the prophet but its how they do it; in the US you can call the Prophet whatever names you like but shit hits the fan as soon as you start depicting him in a disgusting - naked and arab/muslim stereotype. Guess what would happen to you If you went to a black or hispanic neighborhood waving racist posters around. This has more to do with culture of respect rather than religion.

3: Islam clearly defines what a Muslim is or not; the law simply prohibits Ahmadis from defining them selves as Muslims.

4: The people who try to 'reform' Islam are people like "Al-Baghdadi and Osama" ; people who go blowing them selves up. Islam is perfect - there is nothing to reform about it.


You're a bit out-dated; Pakistan isnt Afghanistan or North Korea. 99% of the Madrassas teach us about peace, paying taxes, behavior, respect, and even patriotism; meanwhile 'Military establishments' provide the best facilities and education in Pakistan.

The " Law " you talking about made by corrupt Zani Sharabi leadership and the " Ulma " were almost one we talking about in this thread "'Jahil " that law nothing but piece of garbage, btw if you think that if there is no need to reform and bring back the real Islam why you guys so despressly waiting for Imam Mehdi and Nazool e Issa Es from skies? They just come to fight Dajjal?

 

[VCheng]

Islam is not only the religion of the Muslims but also the religion of the people of the world. If a person accept the Islam he will safe after the death, if not he will face to the hardness of the life after death for the million of years. There is no death after one death of this life. Allah almighty has said that I AM he who create meal (milk) from the blood and excrement for you. Are these all articles of the world borne it self, No these are born by some one ALLAH. k2 Himalayan mountains karakuram mountains mount Everest Hindu kush thread of mountains Indian ocean, pacific ocean, Atlantic air water trees birds animals fishes etc, why these things cannot act the demonstration of their power? because some one controlled them who is ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

All of that noble speech should begin with: "It is my personal belief that ...."

Others have the right to hold differing beliefs.

 

[livingdead]

After a Pakistani boy cut off his own hand following a public accusation of blasphemy, BBC Urdu's Iram Abbasi travelled to his village in Punjab province to find out what happened. She is the first international broadcaster to speak to him. Some readers may find the details that follow disturbing.

"Why should I feel any pain or trouble in cutting off the hand that was raised against the Holy Prophet?"

Those are the words of 15-year-old Qaiser (not his real name) who chopped off his right hand just a few days ago believing he had committed blasphemy.
Many believe fellow villagers started shaming the boy after the local cleric had made the accusation of blasphemy - and that is why Qaiser felt the need to prove his love for the Prophet Muhammad.

On 11 January, Qaiser was attending a celebration of the Prophet's birth at a mosque in his village in north-eastern Punjab.
The cleric hosting it worked the crowd into a fervour and, a few hours into the celebration, called out: "Who among you is a follower of Muhammad?" Everyone raised their hands.

He followed it with another question: "Who among you doesn't believe in the teachings of the Holy Prophet? Raise your hands!"

Qaiser, mishearing, inadvertently raised his hand.


Witnessed by about 100 worshippers, the cleric immediately accused him of blasphemy and the boy returned home to prove his love for the Prophet - by cutting off his own hand.

For a 15-year-old, Qaiser looked exceptionally frail when I met him. But his fight with pain and fear was outweighed by a sense of religious righteousness.

"When I raised my right hand unwittingly, I realised I had committed blasphemy and needed to atone for this," he told the BBC.

It appears it didn't matter to him whether it was a mistake or not - he couldn't live with the shame of the accusation without punishing himself, so had to undo it.

"I came back home and went to the grass-cutting machine, but found the place dark so I took my uncle's phone to point some light at my hand. I placed it under the machine and chopped it off in a single swirl."
Qaiser picked his severed hand up from under the machine and, bleeding profusely, placed it on a tray and took it back to the mosque, less than 100m from his home.

rest here
The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand - BBC News

 

[haviZsultan]

We Pakistanis are mad. When we can't think for ourselves and are senseless armies of brainless mullahs then we can blame no one but ourselves. Islam is not merely rituals-it means thinking for yourselves. Only God can blame someone of blasphemy not a human being-we have no right to decide who does and who does not commit blasphemy.

A man like Salman Taseer was killed for fighting against the pathetic blasphemy law. He simply fought against a man made law rather than God but a brainless idiot killed him and an entire population supported the killer.

Thankfully the Islam of this brainless 15 year old is different from my Islam.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

what a moron, someone should put his sorry *** in a de-radicalization centre before some jihadis recruit him.

STFU

Social cohesion and the need to fit in forced the poor kid to cut his hand off. He singled himself out by accidentally raising his hand and felt obliged to cut his hand off in order to take himself out of the public's crosshairs.

This is a tragedy.

 

[iPhone]

If we genuinely began to implement the process of de-radicalization and social tolerance across coubtry starting today, I fear it would be another hundred years before we see some tiny positive results.

And this isn't even exclusive to Pakistan as muslim nations across the board are going through such close mindedness on anything religious.

I think it's high time we seriously began fixing this problem. Since its a muslim issue, we should involve all the Muslim nations. Muslim leaders from every nation, both political and religious and scholars should come up with a platform to get together and just start talking.

Exchange of ideas and just talk. See where that leads. Introduce different point of views from other Islamic nations in their own countries. Everyone is feeling the effects of this extremism so why not everyone sitdown and seek a solution out.