Can TB2s do a Russia on India?

[EAGLE777]

No.

1) India has superior Israeli loitering drones and is also arming Herons Uav's with Spike missiles.

2) India is already testing own version of TB2 like drone (DRDO Archer).

3) Most importantly, Ukraine has failed to release any videos of TB2 strike for 5-6 days now which means most of them have been taken out.

Also only 50 Russian tanks were destroyed mostly by ATGM and TB2 failed to destroy a single tank.

Only 30 kills achieved by TB2 so far and they are mostly useless trucks. Only ones worth mentioning are a few SPH, undeployed Buk missile TELARs.

Superiour loitering drones you say, Turkey also has loitering drones which can be transferred to Pakistan anytime these are as advanced and capable as the Israeli ones. TB2 is MALE UCAV can’t be compared to loitering drone which is just a guided munition nothing more.

Releasing TB2 footages from Ukraine conflict is not in the interest of Turkiye as they don’t want to damage ties with Russia.

And there is no proof of any destroyed TB2’s there is no image of TB2 wreckage nothing.

 

[Foinikas]

That much is not needed, Turkish army devestated Syrian army in just 3 days according to rumors there were 200 TB2’s simultaneously locating and destroying targets.

That's ridiculous. You probably had 200 TB2s in your entire inventory back then.

You didn't need so much to destroy the small portion of SAA gathered up there.

Plus sending 200 TB2s at the same time, causes a traffic nightmare for the controllers and logistics. And all that for the SAA? Get serious...

 

[Oom]

PAA has over 200 Mushaks. Quite frankly, no way in hell are they going to be able to perform their recon function, too vulnerable.

Just imagine if we had over 200+ TB2.

Also our A-100 need good surveillance assets for effective targeting. We already have the Galileo and others. But TB2 can detect 70km away.

Poland paid USD 270 million for 24 drones plus support. That’s not exactly cheap. But in house production, and annual procurements would help build the numbers.

I think Pakistan only problem with Turkish drones has been the cost point. Tunisia’s Anka deal was around USD 80 million for three drones. That’s pricey compared to Wing Long II. I heard Pakistan rejected Wing Loong II due to quality issues.

Pakistan’s recent drone attack in Afghanistan is just disappointing to say the least. After the target was identified the drone failed to launch.

 

[Foinikas]

Releasing TB2 footages from Ukraine conflict is not in the interest of Turkiye as they don’t want to damage ties with Russia.

You've already damaged your ties with Russia. You keep sending help to Ukraine. You think they will forget it? If Russian tourists don't come to Turkey at summer, you'll lose a big deal of money. And it's not just that,it's a lot of other things. Since you decided to help NATO and not be neutral,they probably regret selling you those S-400s. They might eventually put sanctions on you when it comes to weapons.

But then again...the Americans might be pleased and sell you stuff and be friends again

 

[313ghazi]

My worry is if we're actually interested in deploying drones. It's only recently we've started using them in coin with Ernest.

We should be - I think they should be integrated in every unit for every role possible.

 

[Oom]

You've already damaged your ties with Russia. You keep sending help to Ukraine. You think they will forget it? If Russian tourists don't come to Turkey at summer, you'll lose a big deal of money. And it's not just that,it's a lot of other things. Since you decided to help NATO and not be neutral,they probably regret selling you those S-400s. They might eventually put sanctions on you when it comes to weapons.

But then again...the Americans might be pleased and sell you stuff and be friends again

I don’t think Russians will be going on vacations for a while. Unless they stuff their hand bags with Rubles.

 

[nahtanbob]

That much is not needed, Turkish army devestated Syrian army in just 3 days according to rumors there were 200 TB2’s simultaneously locating and destroying targets.

India-Pakistan border is 1000+ km long. 200 TB2 are sitting ducks against all out air strike. TB2s fly at max speed of 220 kmph. Choppers fly faster.

 

[EAGLE777]

PAA has over 200 Mushaks. Quite frankly, no way in hell are they going to be able to perform their recon function, too vulnerable.

Just imagine if we had over 200+ TB2.

Also our A-100 need good surveillance assets for effective targeting. We already have the Galileo and others. But TB2 can detect 70km away.

Poland paid USD 270 million for 24 drones plus support. That’s not exactly cheap. But in house production, and annual procurements would help build the numbers.

I think Pakistan only problem with Turkish drones has been the cost point. Tunisia’s Anka deal was around USD 80 million for three drones. That’s pricey compared to Wing Long II. I heard Pakistan rejected Wing Loong II due to quality issues.

Pakistan’s recent drone attack in Afghanistan is just disappointing to say the least. After the target was identified the drone failed to launch.

Was it Wingloong drone that failed to launch the missile?

India-Pakistan border is 1000+ km long. 200 TB2 are sitting ducks against all out air strike. TB2s fly at max speed of 220 kmph. Choppers fly faster.

Turkey-Syria border is 940 km. It is up to you whether it become sitting duck or flying duck depends on how good you use it.

 

[EAGLE777]

That's ridiculous. You probably had 200 TB2s in your entire inventory back then.

You didn't need so much to destroy the small portion of SAA gathered up there.

Plus sending 200 TB2s at the same time, causes a traffic nightmare for the controllers and logistics. And all that for the SAA? Get serious...

Just imagine this capability, 200 Ucav’s assaulting a huge area simultaneously and hitting all enemy combattants in systematic way due to incorporated AI.

This is not a sci fi Netflix movie this is real, Turkish quality and high tech rocks and kicks azz man.

 

[EAGLE777]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1501780368575324160

 

[nahtanbob]

Just imagine this capability, 200 Ucav’s assaulting a huge area simultaneously and hitting all enemy combattants in systematic way due to incorporated AI.

This is not a sci fi Netflix movie this is real, Turkish quality and high tech rocks and kicks azz man.

Get serious. It moves at max speed of 220 kmph. It has a weapons payload of 300 pounds. It has range of 120 km. You have 200 of them. It is controlled by line of sight (??)

It does not have a chance against large conventional army. I looked up the inventory of the Indian military -- Hawk-132 jet trainers, Mi-17 choppers, light choppers and L-40/60 anti-aircraft artillery can knock off quite a few TB2. We won't talk about attacks on the bases from which TB2 take off and on the bases where the controllers reside. We won't talk about vulnerability to electronic warfare.

If the Pakistani army acquires 5000 to 10,000 of these drones it gets interesting. Unless the technology evolves where the TB2's can operate in swarms independent of operators it is hardily a game changer.

Don't get me wrong. TB2 are great for reconnaissance during peacetime. They are ideal for hitting irregulars in low intensity warfare.

 

[dBSPL]

One of the most important advantages of the TB2 is that it is a very slow and composite-weighted very light aircraft. It is a specific tactical system developed for some specific purposes. It is not a D-day terminator. And TB2s are not the only element of the system, there is a whole structure running TB2, it has the feature of being a flying platform in doctrinalized attack and ISTAR formations.

The other issue is that TB2 is technically the product of concepts and capabilities that were operationalized ten years ago. For example, when the system was first put into service, the fully autonomous take-off and landing operation was a first in its class. The new generation tactical drone work currently going on in Turkey is far beyond Tb2.

 

[CSAW]

Attack Drones operate as a sub system within a complex system [Kill Chain] .The nature of Turkish UAV-based success in previous conflicts aka Operation Spring Shield, were also based on their more powerful EMS warfare systems. Libyan terrain was flat, and the desert allowed easy spotting of targets. Successful operations have dependence on fair weather.

They are part of a network providing an enhanced situational awareness - so that the use may be directed towards firing ATGMs , Anti Terrorist, Artillery or Recon. Patrolling huge territories at lower costs and an added ingredient in CAS - Foot on ground follows next.

Swarming is now a hot term - NOT so much defined by the number of drones in an attack but by their ability to co-operate together without any human involvement.

The first and foremost effect in India Pakistan conflict is that Indian Armour is now exposed to a new Aerial threat which was not applicable in last skirmish.

In engagements over Libya, Syria & N-Karabakh, TB2 demonstrated the ability to challenge the respectable level IADS- Hence Pakistan would definitely benefit.
NOT a silver bullet but effective.

Training and Cordination , Gaining Air Superiority to clear major ADs, Network Centric Real time information flow, Jamming environment handling, Contested Space management and many other factors would determine the final outcome.

Thanks

 

[Joe Shearer]

Following is my naïve analysis,

Good enough.

On to the next thread.

 

[Pakistan First]

If we have Turkey and China ready to back us in the next war with Indian, it would be a game changer.

I don't know for sure, but I reckon the Turks were actually piloting many of the drones in the Armenian war.
If they did the same with Pakistan and caused the kind of damage they did to Armenia, It will change the course of the war.
Also, If China got involved and we had China dropping off large numbers of J10c's and JF17's armed with PL12 and PL15,
It would cause havoc.

I would expect China to get heavily involved and annex Ladakh and south Tibet.
I would hope Turkey would damn the consequences and go flat out to support Pakistan.
If that happens, it would encourage others to join in.,
IEA would see this the mother of all holy wars and go for New Delhi.
Iran may be even get involved.

When shizzy will hit the fizzy, it'll be just us against India. Ain't no one coming to help us and same should be factored in, in our preparation and readiness. We will be deploying whatever we have in our inventory at that moment.

Look this is a genius plan.

Deploy 2-3m IEA forces and but first arm them and bring their strandard upto NATO-Pakistan strandard in armament provide fighter jets etc etc EW, ADS etc etc invest in their armed forces in return for a defense treaty and an understanding that they will be leading the charge if any conflict arises from here.

Deploy 2-3m IEA forces into Gilgit Baltistan and main while calling all your reservers and veterans reaching approx your own forces upto 6m but keep your forces at the line and wait don't enter.. Let the Afghans advance first wave into India..

I promise you by Allah that you won't even be putting your forces inside Gangu land as the Afghans will reach Tamil Nadu..


Main while you can just sun-bath on the line

Fuckd up idea on so many levels that I don't even want to waste time posting a detailed response.

Rule #1:
No one will fight your wars for you.

We Pakistanis are a nation of 230 million and heavily armed. Majority of our population will sacrifice all their wealth and their lives for Jihad.
Pakistanis can make india suffer 100x what usa suffered in Afghanistan and 100x what Russia is suffering in Ukraine!

Amen. Didn't accumulate and practice with all these arms, ammo and equipment just to sit back and watch the war.

Indian are mentally weak too and unskilled to fight.

Never underestimate your enemy. Prepare as if he's your equal.

1000+ Russian tanks destroyed and over 10,000 Russian soldiers lost their lives.

I would really like to try whatever you're smoking.

Booms, followed by bigger booms followed by even bigger booms followed by a boom to end all booms

How old are you son?