Can PM Imran Khan Make Pakistan A Welfare State

[greenblooded]

Pakistan needs at least 15 to 20 years to experience visible change in the direction given by IK.

 

[313ghazi]

Naah, that's not gold standard ...but I would say silver or bronze and as we are going into elections, in fact, we can already cast the votes... We are having the debates how to improve it.
The gold standard or rather platinum standard is the Madina State model which is the ideal system to achieve and all modern social welfare systems reflect many aspects of it but none grasps the complete spectrum. How 5 years is too little and that is why I suggest at least 20 years continuous without the break as first 5 years will be spent in clearing the mess and stabilising the economy so only a basic system can be initiated but in the next 15 years it will gradually reach the ideal if the policies stay consistent.

Madina model had universal income 1400 years ago - today Scandanavian society is experimenting with hit.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Naah, that's not gold standard

I was talking in the context of -

 

[war&peace]

I was talking in the context of -

I didn't get it... you have to dumb down it for me..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

So I would like to add some extras to the 7th century Madina Model -

• Full comprehsive medical service - acute and chronic
  
• Full comprehensive service - preventative. Eyesight, cardiac, cancer, diabetic etc
  
• Full education service from age 5 to 18 - primary, tertiary and higher education/higher vocational training
  
• Full housing service - providing housing to the poor
• etc

I didn't get it... you have to dumb down it for me..

My referance to the "gold standard" was in the modern context. Today. The present. Scandanavia is touted as having a a exceptional welfare system. You can comment on it morre then I as to whether it is world class.

Pakistan needs al teast 15 to 20 years to experience visible change in the direction given by IK.

Very well said. Certainly even if IK worked 2/7 I don't think he will be able to take Pakistan where it should. He is 65 years old. Not enough time on the clock. It's pity we did not have PM IK in early 2000s. Instead we have wasted a decades with Musharaf, Zardari and Nawaz.

All we can hope now is that IK manages tro turn the direction of the ship of the state and then it keeps sailing in that direction post IK for at least another 2/3 decades. This can only happen if IK manages to nurture a new generation of leaders and the public become sensitized to real agenda of government. I think this might well happen.

 

[war&peace]

So I would like to add some extras to the 7th century Madina Model -

• Full comprehsive medical service - acute and chronic
  
• Full comprehensive service - preventative. Eyesight, cardiac, cancer, diabetic etc
  
• Full education service from age 5 to 18 - primary, tertiary and higher education/higher vocational training
  
• Full housing service - providing housing to the poor
• etc

My referance to the "gold standard" was in the modern context. Today. The present. Scandanavia is touted as having a a exceptional welfare system. You can comment on it morre then I as to whether it is world class.

These are not extras at all but just different names as education system has been classified. There are huge queues in hospitals and people suffer and wait so many have to travel to other places and pay to get treated on time. Many of my Pakistani friends have even travelled to Pakistan to get their dear ones treated despite enjoying a free and world class health system..so it means the gold standard has a lot of roam for improvement.

The reason is most of the people, including yourself, are totally ignorant the Madina Model but they know about Scandinavia. But even the creators of Scandinavian welfare model also copied from the Madina model but still did not replicate it fully. For example, still you find people begging on the streets here and many still rely on the social help while the Islamic social and economic model eliminated the poverty all together and there was a time when not a single person deserving Zakat could be found in the state... which sounds utopia even if one is inside the Scandinavia.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The reason is most of the people, including yourself, are totally ignorant the Madina Model

No, offence so are you. I am deeply flawed with a critical mind. It say's to me that if it is difficult to ascertain the medical care provided the Swedish welfare model which is only one hour flight from me, is part of EU, I have access via modern communication including the internet giving me layer after of data on Sweden. If am still ignorant then how in sweet name am going to be able to ascertain the standard of care provided by the Medina model. The recipients of that service died over 1,300 years ago. I can't go back in time. So I am left with extremely weak historical sources which can only gve me blunt idea of the service that existed 13 centuries ago and almost no idea of the service delivery.

 

[war&peace]

No, offence so are you. I am deeply flawed with a critical mind. It say's to me that if it is difficult to ascertain the medical care provided the Swedish welfare model which is only one hour flight from me, is part of EU, I have access via modern communication including the internet giving me layer after of data on Sweden. If am still ignorant then how in sweet name am going to be able to ascertain the standard of care provided by the Medina model. The recipients of that service died over 1,300 years ago. I can't go back in time. So I am left with extremely weak historical sources which can only gve me blunt idea of the service that existed 13 centuries ago and almost no idea of the service delivery.

As usual you mixed up and rather lying on purpose as I clearly that said people know about Scandinavian social system but they are ignorant about Madina state model which was 1400 years ago..But there are books available to read. And definitely you may have access to Scandinavia through internet or you may be able to fly here but that is in no way replaces the first hand knowledge.

 

[Mentee]

No, offence so are you. I am deeply flawed with a critical mind. It say's to me that if it is difficult to ascertain the medical care provided the Swedish welfare model which is only one hour flight from me, is part of EU, I have access via modern communication including the internet giving me layer after of data on Sweden. If am still ignorant then how in sweet name am going to be able to ascertain the standard of care provided by the Medina model. The recipients of that service died over 1,300 years ago. I can't go back in time. So I am left with extremely weak historical sources which can only gve me blunt idea of the service that existed 13 centuries ago and almost no idea of the service delivery.

In terms of material progress the Madina model stands for " State of the art welfare standards for an individual " hope this may clear the ambiguity

 

[greenblooded]

He is 65 years old. Not enough time on the clock.

Indeed a very sad thing.who do we have after ik that we can trust no one.IK only rose high in pakistan because he had the recognition and money even then it took him 22 years to become pm. The problem is democracy in pakistan is flawed. A common honest man cannot rise to heights in politics unless he has billions in his bank account or he is a son of a influencial landlord or a industrialist . Moreover If nawaz wasn't dismissed and jailed we would have been bowing to maryam and then her son and so on.Lack of education,sectarianism and absence of rule of law is responsible for what pakistan has become.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Indeed a very sad thing.who do we have after ik that we can trust no one.IK only rose high in pakistan because he had the recognition and money even then it took him 22 years to become pm. The problem is democracy in pakistan is flawed. A common honest man cannot rise to heights in politics unless he has billions in his bank account or he is a son of a influencial landlord or a industrialist . Moreover If nawaz wasn't dismissed and jailed we would have been bowing to maryam and then her son and so on.Lack of education,sectarianism and absence of rule of law is responsible for what pakistan has become.

It is. But I think there is much to be optimistic about. With rise of IK the national narrative has changed. The two family dynastic order has been broken. We know IK is not going to leave anybody behind to perpetuate his lineage. In many ways IK reminds me of Jinnah. A man of the world who returned to his roots. He got to his goal at the twilight of his life. He was a incredible public success. But equally a disaster as for as his family and private life. Divorced. Lonely almost. Child/ren living abroad. In some ways this is good for Pakistan. Not for them but for the nation. These type of men have nothing else but the nation. They are thus driven. They have no personal greed or need for gain.

The reason why democracy did not work too well was because for it to work it requires time. Think of piece of wood being sculpted. It takes many steps for the raw block to slowly emerge into the final shaped product. Similarly democracy works slowly by slicing off the 'dead wood' But it takes many cycles of the elective process for it to emerge into product that most people would call satisfactory. The problem is we have not given enough cycles for the Nawaz's and Bhutto's to be shaved off. We keep getting military coups which retard the process and in fact distort the process. Without going too far back think of Musharaf. He came on the promise of ridding us off Nawaz. Instead he sent on holiday for ten years and used that as a excuse to rule the country when he never had any legitimacy. If he had why did he not take his unoform and prove his mettle like other politicians? Instead he cobbled up a distorted government where he even join hands with the criminal gangster Altaf bhai by giving him Karachi. And effectively giving the mullahs K-Pk all in the quest to keep himself in power by hook or crook.

The orginal reason and the justification he took over was Nawaz. Well that guy came back from holiday twice stronger after Mr 10% had got a chance to scalp the country. Had Musharaf not disturbed this process there would have been popular discontent by late 2000s with Nawaz. And he would have been thoroughly ruined. You can see how PPP has shrunk over time as result of it's failure. This would have been fate of PML-N as well unless it improved it's performance. You might be able to fool the people but eventually it all catches up.

Going bac to today I am quite positive. I think while IK cannot fix everything. This is a 200 people country that has been neglected for decades. But I think this is begining of a new dawn. The first page in long book. Pm IK is the first chapter in that book. I think this tenure will sensitize the population to what politics is all about. The common man. The local hospital. The local street. The local police station. The local environment. Housing, helth, justice, jobs etc.

And we will see entire new generation being nurtured into this dawn of new politics of 'naya Pakistan'. Out there in the millions of the youngsters of this country there will be 100s of future Imran Khans. They will slowly rise and inspired by IK take this country to the next chapters. So while I doubt IK will take Pakistan to the destination but he sure will have laid the path to a bright future. I find that inspiring. History is being made and PM Imran Khan knows this. You can see it on his face.