Can Pakistan understand China?

[ChinaToday]

We look at South Asia as a region where we will hold India accountable for its injustices and force it to cede Kashmir to us. We have jihad as our guiding doctrine. Justice demands that we be the agents of instability. We are the revisionists determined to change the status quo.

India is too big, so we think China should do the job of cutting India down to size. India believes this strange figment of our imagination and criticises China for partly giving Pakistan its military muscle, the sort of thing the US used to do in the past. But was the US able to make Pakistan win against India? Was Kashmir ceded to Pakistan by an India felled and writhing on the ground?

Some in the US think of China as a global rival, but eight American presidents one after the other have resisted the old instinct of looking at the world through military goggles and have treated China instead as a ‘strangely behaving’ trading partner. And one person who doesn’t want America to think in terms of military equations is Henry Kissinger.

Henry Kissinger, in his latest book On China (The Penguin Press 2011), tells us things about China that we have ignored in our decades of ‘all-weather’ friendship. He says the Chinese mind hates policies of instability and disharmony. It did not grab Hong Kong but waited for the British lease on it to run out. Seeing Portugal in decline, India didn’t wait in the case of Goa; China waited in the case of Macao.

The presiding philosopher in China is Confucius who, unlike Machiavelli, was concerned more with the cultivation of social harmony than with the machinations of power (p.15). For him, mankind’s central spiritual task was to recreate proper order, already on the verge of being lost. Spiritual fulfilment was a task not so much of revelation as patient recovery of forgotten principles of self-restraint (p.14).

China doesn’t want victory, therefore it doesn’t go to war. The philosopher of China’s realpolitik is Sun Tzu who has written Art of War. According to Kissinger, “A turbulent history has taught Chinese leaders that not every problem has a solution and that too great an emphasis on total mastery over specific events could upset the harmony of the universe. There were too many potential enemies for the empire ever to live in total security. If China’s fate was relative security, it also implied relative insecurity — the need to learn the grammar of over a dozen neighbouring states with significantly different histories and aspirations” (p.23).

On the other hand, the western tradition prizes the decisive clash of forces emphasising feats of heroism. The Chinese ideal stresses subtlety, indirection and the patient accumulation of relative advantage. Writes Kissinger: “Chinese thinkers developed strategic thought that placed a premium on victory through psychological advantage and preached the avoidance of direct conflict” (p.35).

Kissinger gives us another contrast: “Chinese diplomacy has learned from millennia of experience that, in international issues, each apparent solution is generally an admission ticket to a new set of related problems. Hence Chinese diplomats consider continuity of relationships an important task and perhaps more important than formal documents. By comparison, American diplomacy tends to segment issues into self-contained units to be dealt with on their own merits” (p.245).

India is intellectually better placed to understand China than jihad-obsessed, warlike Pakistan. After India lost Aksai Chin to China in 1962, it could have become revisionist like Pakistan and fought losing wars to regain the territory, but it decided that Aksai Chin was strategically ‘unimportant’. Today, it hopes to take its bilateral trade with China to $200 billion while Pakistan languishes at $9 billion.

Can Pakistan understand China? – The Express Tribune

 

[Tanna Tanni]

^^^
This is the best chinese I ve ever had !! :wink:

 

[Hulk]

Honestly speaking if you ignore the war mongering Chinese here on the forum, China has been very sensible nation. Even though they have so much money and muscle power, they have always thought of avoiding war. I really appreciate China in that regard. Also, one good thing I have seen from them is they rarely make statements and if they do, it is well thought off.

India--China Friendship is what is required and we are moving in that direction.

 

[VelocuR]

I understood the whole point of this thread "Can Pakistan understand China" bascially, Pakistan is in instability, violences, and disharmoney in WOT which is why China hate this ideally. Pakistan haven't overcome some of the issues yet, I agree.

Henry Kissinger, in his latest book On China (The Penguin Press 2011), tells us things about China that we have ignored in our decades of ‘all-weather’ friendship. He says the Chinese mind hates policies of instability and disharmony. It did not grab Hong Kong but waited for the British lease on it to run out. Seeing Portugal in decline, India didn’t wait in the case of Goa; China waited in the case of Macao.

That's all points. Nothing else.

 

[Chogy]

I think Kissinger almost nailed it. There's some room for argument, but he expresses thoughts well. Asian mind and culture is definitely different than that of the West. Probably most admirable is the ability to think and plan for long term. Political patience. But as Japan discovered, despite their planning which created the miracle that was the Meiji Restoration, sometimes the plan's goal is not beneficial.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Just commenting on economic trade: There is a difference in seeing things. We completely ignore the economic costs in our higher than Himalayas friendship. We have a lot of other things to keep our friendship strong.
- - Now when you talk about economic trade; most countries of the world get no.1 quality products from China. But what can I tell you about Pakistan. My teacher (of Commerce) once told me that Pakistan has imported pencils from China and because we go for cheapest product; China offered us the no. 3 quality pencils but our people requested them to manufacture pencils of even lower quality and guess what The Chinese did it.

Now how can you count these products in terms of economic trade. Similarly everyone in Pakistan now knows the market of Chinese mobiles in Pakistan. I was ashamed to see a cheap Chinese mobile having more options than my expensive Nokia.

Long Live Pak-China friendship

 

[rcrmj]

this article explains very well why China and Pakistan has been all-weather friend for 60 years`

Chinese diplomats consider continuity of relationships an important task and perhaps more important than formal documents. By comparison, American diplomacy tends to segment issues into self-contained units to be dealt with on their own merits

america treats you as friend when there is a short needs```Cuba, Iraq, BinL and Pakistan are te perfect examples

 

[newdelhinsa]

I think Kissinger intentionally forget to mention confronting China's cultural revolution or Chinese absolutism. Though he is talking about China's foreign policy more but the cultural revolution has made rest of the world critical about China till today. Whether China give a damn about her being criticized or not is not important here but it (criticism) definitely contradicts what author has been trying to assert.

As far as Pakistan understanding China is concerned then Pakistan would self hyphenate herself to China (even without Chinese consent) as long as she will see any discord between India and China still at large. It is for China to come out clear every time if its friendship with Pakistan out-cost her friendship with India. Its non of Pakistan's business to worry how China will play her game of balance between two rivals nor it is India's as well.

 

[kawaraj]

Chinese mind hates policies of instability and disharmony. It did not grab Hong Kong but waited for the British lease on it to run out. Seeing Portugal in decline, India didn’t wait in the case of Goa; China waited in the case of Macao.

 

[jdme]

Chinese mind hates policies of instability and disharmony. It did not grab Hong Kong but waited for the British lease on it to run out. Seeing Portugal in decline, India didn’t wait in the case of Goa; China waited in the case of Macao.

A+++ SO much full of fact as usual. Pakistan Jindabad! You guys have soo much facts!


In real world, HK was leased to UK and Goa was "occupied" by Portuguese. Portuguese power had declined even before Brazil as a nation came to be. And ofcourse 14 year wait is no wait at all.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I think Kissinger almost nailed it. There's some room for argument, but he expresses thoughts well. Asian mind and culture is definitely different than that of the West. Probably most admirable is the ability to think and plan for long term. Political patience. But as Japan discovered, despite their planning which created the miracle that was the Meiji Restoration, sometimes the plan's goal is not beneficial.

I think you are seriously overestimating us.

I don't think we have any intrinsic advantage in long-term thinking. Witness the past two centuries, where China was crushed and humilated at every turn.

 

[muse]

Of course the message here for Pakistan is to be patient with regard to captive Kashmir -- in the cause of the captives of Kashmir, Pakistan have lost sight that the totality of India is more than that it hold Kashmir captive - and that with regard to Captive Kashmir, the Indian has much in her domestic politics to which even she is hostage to --- And that while an India that holds Kashmir Captive is a negative, it's not the totality of India, if India can be seen through the lens of interests as a adversary and rival, she can also be seen as partner and friend - Pakistan, because she is proud of the achievement of China, should exercise patience and cultivate a sagacious, more long term view of the prospects of freeing the captives of Kashmir, even as she transforms India from adversary and Rival to friend and partner, not just in a long and glorious past, but a bright future.

 

[Meengla]

@Muse,
I just thanked you for writing the longest sentence in PDF

Back to topic: I think, given the near blind trust Pakistanis have of China and good friendship between India and Russia, it is about time these two big powers make India and Pakistan shelve, if not settle the Kashmir dispute. As I suggested, demilitarization of Siachen in such a way that joint Russian-Chinese forces deployed there, followed by similar, incremental measures in the rest of Kashmir on both sides.

 

[Dance]

A+++ SO much full of fact as usual. Pakistan Jindabad! You guys have soo much facts!


In real world, HK was leased to UK and Goa was "occupied" by Portuguese. Portuguese power had declined even before Brazil as a nation came to be. And ofcourse 14 year wait is no wait at all.

It's zindabad not jindabad. No one says Pakistan "jindabad"

 

[muse]

@Muse,
I just thanked you for writing the longest sentence in PDF

Back to topic: I think, given the near blind trust Pakistanis have of China and good friendship between India and Russia, it is about time these two big powers make India and Pakistan shelve, if not settle the Kashmir dispute. As I suggested, demilitarization of Siachen in such a way that joint Russian-Chinese forces deployed there, followed by similar, incremental measures in the rest of Kashmir on both sides.

Unfortunately no one can do that - not US not China, Not Russia -- Pakistanis and Indian know, they know that together, as partners and friends they are not just better, but that it what is required -- but lets also not forget abou the bunch that do not want to see anything good happen between Pakistan and India.