Can China Break Into Aviation World with The Comac C919 !

[gambit]

Years of convince? I bet you didn't even see the video. State owned airliner takes order from State. C919 will be sell like hotcakes once order is given. There is no need years of conviction. If you didn't know the sixth C919 prototype is almost ready for first flight as promise by timeline of 2021 to delivered if 6 test plane is planned in 2019.

I know u are a sour mode after your US B737 max proves to be an unsafe product and FAA is now garbage.

State ordered domestic users to buy -- so of course the product will sell like hotcakes.

The yrs of convincing am talking about is of FOREIGN customers, the ones who are not subject to state control.

Looky here...You are treading into an area -- aviation -- which you know nothing about other than how to board an aircraft.

 

[khail007]

World is more worry about boieng products now then made in china


Boeing removed a feature that protects its 787 planes during lightning strikes as a cost-cutting measure, even after FAA experts objected
https://www.businessinsider.com/boe...LhQ6Xq0LX90JcwIOw0oPRNWmaFXpQGxsNHbggvhmtsrzk

Now there is also a quote circulating which says 'If it is Boeing - I am no going'.

 

[Imran Khan]

Now there is also a quote circulating which says 'If it is Boeing - I am no going'.

board need profits and quality and safety is last things now.i only trust 777s to fly .

 

[khail007]

board need profits and quality and safety is last things now.i only trust 777s to fly .

747 & 777 are one of the reliable generation of aircraft; but now to appease the USA government, Boeing is utilising US $10/hour Indian software houses, so here goes quality down the Gungu drains.

 

[Beast]

State ordered domestic users to buy -- so of course the product will sell like hotcakes.

The yrs of convincing am talking about is of FOREIGN customers, the ones who are not subject to state control.

Looky here...You are treading into an area -- aviation -- which you know nothing about other than how to board an aircraft.

Why China need so desperate to convince foreign buyer? In the first place, we didn't even bother to talk about foreign sales in the first place? I guess China is the biggest aviation market in the world is a bitter pill for you to swallow? Of cos for the first 10 years to satisfy domestic market is priority. Foreign market is just a bonus. Even Boeing needs China market. More or less shows where China is heading. C919 can sold at least 1000 units in China alone

 

[KungFuLee]

Ya its garbage enough to secure 1k plus ordERS to date

It's actually with 305 firm (Secure) order only, the other 701 is Letter of Intent (LOI) and Memorandum Of Understanding (MoU). Both were not count as order in term of contract. More like "I am interested to buy" and "I want to buy" instead of "I have bought"

Company with MOU and LOI can back out anytime without penalty.

Boeing 737Max have 5011 firm order and ~900 LOI/MOU
Airbus A320neo have 7200 orders of any kind.

board need profits and quality and safety is last things now.i only trust 777s to fly .

Actually, if you want to be safe, you should not fly at all.

I am in the risk audit/actuarial business, let me tell you this, all airliner have its inherit risk to fly in. However, they are statistically similar (not the same though), so you are getting on a 777 or a A350 is just a few hundredth percentage safer.

Why China need so desperate to convince foreign buyer? In the first place, we didn't even bother to talk about foreign sales in the first place? I guess China is the biggest aviation market in the world is a bitter pill for you to swallow? Of cos for the first 10 years to satisfy domestic market is priority. Foreign market is just a bonus. Even Boeing needs China market. More or less shows where China is heading. C919 can sold at least 1000 units in China alone

Actually 1000 unit is a very small number to justify the profit return, if a mainstream airliner sold for only 1000 unit, it's not really profitable to continue with the production.

You may think selling 1000 unit would earn a lot of money, but judging from airliner to airliner. Each aircraft return is very low. like 1-2%, then you also need to factor in research and risk (Crashes, Upgrade and Overhaul cost) which mean making 1000 of those plane would probably just make even, if not under, not having the operating report on COMAC so i wouldn't know, and if you have any accident or design flaw (like the Boeing 737 Max), then you will lose a lot of money to redesign and compensation.

If I remember correctly, Airbus profit margin is about 300% (They spend about 1 billions each year and earn 3 billions back) and they are selling over 7000 A320, and that is just one of their project. So you do the math if you can sell only 1000 of single type aircraft.

 

[AwA.]

It’s just another Western aircraft with ‘made in China’ label slapped on.

Care to explain, how?

 

[KungFuLee]

Care to explain, how?

That's because majority of the crucial component of a C919

are from the west

 

[gambit]

Why China need so desperate to convince foreign buyer?

Yes, China does need -- not merely want -- to convince foreign buyers. We all know it even as you tries -- in vain -- to deny it.

...we didn't even bother to talk about foreign sales in the first place?

Because Comac have nowhere to sell.

I guess China is the biggest aviation market in the world is a bitter pill for you to swallow?

Not at all. Am just putting reality into your fantasies.

Of cos for the first 10 years to satisfy domestic market is priority.

There is no 'priority' here. The word 'priority' implies a list and right now, there is no list of buyers (plural) for the C919. The Chinese government forcing Chinese airlines to fly the C919 is the only demonstrator available. So what 'priority' are you talking about?

Foreign market is just a bonus.

No, foreign market is a must. The Chinese government knows it.

Even Boeing needs China market.

Yeah...To make money. Not because Boeing or Airbus needs China to survive. In actuality, the global market is bigger than China.

More or less shows where China is heading. C919 can sold at least 1000 units in China alone

Good for Comac. It needs all the help it can get.

 

[Beast]

board need profits and quality and safety i

Yes, China does need -- not merely want -- to convince foreign buyers. We all know it even as you tries -- in vain -- to deny it.


Because Comac have nowhere to sell.


Not at all. Am just putting reality into your fantasies.


There is no 'priority' here. The word 'priority' implies a list and right now, there is no list of buyers (plural) for the C919. The Chinese government forcing Chinese airlines to fly the C919 is the only demonstrator available. So what 'priority' are you talking about?


No, foreign market is a must. The Chinese government knows it.


Yeah...To make money. Not because Boeing or Airbus needs China to survive. In actuality, the global market is bigger than China.


Good for Comac. It needs all the help it can get.

LOL.. See how u try to shove that we needs foreign market immediately? Becos you know C919 will sell like hotcakes under state order. A success of a passenger plane is not measure by how many foreign countries it penetrate but by how many number of passenger airplane it can sold...

Let me give you an example, plane A has 12 foreign customers ordering 3 plane each = 36 plane sold vs
plane B that sold only in domestic market of 600 planes. Which plane is more successful and profitable? I dont think we need a genius to tell us the answer..

This will be the situation C919 be. It doesnt matter foreign sales. Most important is how many plane can it sold. China is not Russia. Russia having a long history of making passenger plane but zero market means failure. China having the largest aviation market in the world. It is only China itself to blame if C919 is not successful.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

If China carefully increases their per capita GDP they won't even need to trade.

This is correct.

China has a critical core that sustains itself. It produces the vast majority of end-products.

No other nation on earth demonstrates such a phenomenon.

Shipping traffic is heavily-skewed towards one direction- n that's out from Chinese ports. The only ones that are incoming are oil tankers and cargo ships for mineral ores n food products from africa and elsewhere.

It's actually with 305 firm (Secure) order only, the other 701 is Letter of Intent (LOI) and Memorandum Of Understanding (MoU). Both were not count as order in term of contract. More like "I am interested to buy" and "I want to buy" instead of "I have bought"

Company with MOU and LOI can back out anytime without penalty.

Boeing 737Max have 5011 firm order and ~900 LOI/MOU
Airbus A320neo have 7200 orders of any kind.



Actually, if you want to be safe, you should not fly at all.

I am in the risk audit/actuarial business, let me tell you this, all airliner have its inherit risk to fly in. However, they are statistically similar (not the same though), so you are getting on a 777 or a A350 is just a few hundredth percentage safer.



Actually 1000 unit is a very small number to justify the profit return, if a mainstream airliner sold for only 1000 unit, it's not really profitable to continue with the production.

You may think selling 1000 unit would earn a lot of money, but judging from airliner to airliner. Each aircraft return is very low. like 1-2%, then you also need to factor in research and risk (Crashes, Upgrade and Overhaul cost) which mean making 1000 of those plane would probably just make even, if not under, not having the operating report on COMAC so i wouldn't know, and if you have any accident or design flaw (like the Boeing 737 Max), then you will lose a lot of money to redesign and compensation.

If I remember correctly, Airbus profit margin is about 300% (They spend about 1 billions each year and earn 3 billions back) and they are selling over 7000 A320, and that is just one of their project. So you do the math if you can sell only 1000 of single type aircraft.

You can call it what u want-those are orders from Chinese airlines n corporations. The State directs them regarding these.

Also your backlog example of Boeing's n Airbus's do not have any relevance here. They can have 9999 planes on order, yet still have ZERO negative impact on the C919's orders.

Oh 1008 orders is small? According to you? I doubt Comac will lose faith in the c919's revenue viability just because someone on an internet forum thinks so. If anything, the orders r just gonna keep piling up n up near its launch date.

Waiting for the 7th prototype to fly


Thanks.

 

[gambit]

LOL.. See how u try to shove that we needs foreign market immediately? Becos you know C919 will sell like hotcakes under state order. A success of a passenger plane is not measure by how many foreign countries it penetrate but by how many number of passenger airplane it can sold...

Let me give you an example, plane A has 12 foreign customers ordering 3 plane each = 36 plane sold vs
plane B that sold only in domestic market of 600 planes. Which plane is more successful and profitable? I dont think we need a genius to tell us the answer..

This will be the situation C919 be. It doesnt matter foreign sales. Most important is how many plane can it sold. China is not Russia. Russia having a long history of making passenger plane but zero market means failure. China having the largest aviation market in the world. It is only China itself to blame if C919 is not successful.

When people say something will 'sell like hotcakes', the phrase mean, not merely implied, that the product is inherently attractive enough for people to SELF MOTIVATE to buy. If the purchases has to be enforced, then at best the product have dubious quality. Yeah...We do not need geniuses to finger that out.

 

[ziaulislam]

Garbage made in China

1.5 billion market..even garbage will work

 

[KungFuLee]

You can call it what u want-those are orders from Chinese airlines n corporations. The State directs them regarding these.

Also your backlog example of Boeing's n Airbus's do not have any relevance here. They can have 9999 planes on order, yet still have ZERO negative impact on the C919's orders.

Oh 1008 orders is small? According to you? I doubt Comac will lose faith in the c919's revenue viability just because someone on an internet forum thinks so. If anything, the orders r just gonna keep piling up n up near its launch date.

Waiting for the 7th prototype to fly


Thanks.

I did not call it whatever I want, you said it was "Confirm" order, I said in contract law, MOU and LOI are not confirmed. Again, you can tell me about how Chinese government force their company to order C919, that does not mean it change the definition of the term MOU and LOI.

Also, Backlog order is not the same as MOU and LOI, backlog order are confirmed order that was yet to produce, which mean it is still in the production line. Someone order it, paid money for it and have not receive the item are backlog. MOU and LOI are expression of interest, which mean they weren't ordered, paid or produce.

And yes 1008 order from a single aircraft type is small. I used to work in auditing/actuarial field with one of the leading aviation company in the world.

I have already used Airbus profit to explain why 1008 order are small (of those only some 300 are actual) Airbus have 7000 firm order for A320, yet their profit is still only 3 billions. And Airbus don't just make A320. They also make A330, A340,A350 and A380 commercial, also not counting military aircraft. Now do tell me what kind of profit COMAC is expecting making just C919 with 1008 order?

If Airbus A320 only manage 1008 order, they would most likely cancel it after initial run.

And finally, C919 have been selling since 2011, it's nearly 9 years, and the order have been stagnate for at least 3 years, the cycle is ending, unless there are new version of C919 coming out (like XL or XR version) I doubt there would be any increase in order number, both firm and MOU/LOI

The only ones that are incoming are oil tankers and cargo ships for mineral ores n food products from africa and elsewhere.

That is the definition of trade. Trade is not just about export or end product production. Without trade, you would not have the oil tanker coming in, or mineral coming in. And if no oil and mineral come in, then production of end product would stop. Which mean China is still depending on trade.

Simply because an increase of per Capita GDP does not mean you will suddenly get oil and mineral in China.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

I did not call it whatever I want, you said it was "Confirm" order, I said in contract law, MOU and LOI are not confirmed. Again, you can tell me about how Chinese government force their company to order C919, that does not mean it change the definition of the term MOU and LOI.

Also, Backlog order is not the same as MOU and LOI, backlog order are confirmed order that was yet to produce, which mean it is still in the production line. Someone order it, paid money for it and have not receive the item are backlog. MOU and LOI are expression of interest, which mean they weren't ordered, paid or produce.

And yes 1008 order from a single aircraft type is small. I used to work in auditing/actuarial field with one of the leading aviation company in the world.

I have already used Airbus profit to explain why 1008 order are small (of those only some 300 are actual) Airbus have 7000 firm order for A320, yet their profit is still only 3 billions. And Airbus don't just make A320. They also make A330, A340,A350 and A380 commercial, also not counting military aircraft. Now do tell me what kind of profit COMAC is expecting making just C919 with 1008 order?

If Airbus A320 only manage 1008 order, they would most likely cancel it after initial run.

And finally, C919 have been selling since 2011, it's nearly 9 years, and the order have been stagnate for at least 3 years, the cycle is ending, unless there are new version of C919 coming out (like XL or XR version) I doubt there would be any increase in order number, both firm and MOU/LOI



That is the definition of trade. Trade is not just about export or end product production. Without trade, you would not have the oil tanker coming in, or mineral coming in. And if no oil and mineral come in, then production of end product would stop. Which mean China is still depending on trade.

Simply because an increase of per Capita GDP does not mean you will suddenly get oil and mineral in China.

u can call it what u want- the chinese media has all acknowledge it as orders. Are u the chinese government? who r u to tell them what are confirmed orders n what r not? why so defiant? i dont care what u call it, that's why i said u can call it what u want.

1008 is small to you- what u think doesnt change the significance of this number. dont worry i will tag @KungFuLee once the c919 goes into commercial service, and we can have a good laugh at what your doomsday naysaying, hell-wishing for the c919 2 years down the road because the plane is scheduled to for its first commercial delivery in 2021.

oh and i dont understand, what do u mean by 'c919 has been selling since 2011'? it's still in the trialing phase.

u r misquoting my point. mine was focused exactly on the endproduct part of the trade- this is why i added in the only stuff that china still needs are oil and mineral ores.

seems like u're here to argue just for the sake of arguing. if i call my underwear a piece of garment, u will probably say no- that's a piece of cloth.

time to get a girlfriend, bro.

thanks.