Can Aegis Stop China’s Carrier Killer Missiles?

[nightcrawler]

@Thomas
Thnx for the info.
ok I got it. I have read about ESSM now...

 

[Tang0]

Are you kidding me with the F-1 having "modern jet engines"? The thrust of their turbofans with afterburner is 35.6 kN and the plane was made in the 70's, the Mig-21 engine from the 1960's is 38.74 kN without afterburner. The 2 turbofans dry, combined, produce less thrust than the J-7 engine from 1966.

Mitsubishi F-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japanese rockets are all LIQUID fueled. This makes them unsuitable for rapid deployment and launch as ballistic missiles, as liquid fueled rockets must be fueled before flight, while solid fuel rockets can be launched any time any where. The technology of solid fuel rockets and liquid fuel rockets is completely different. Having said that, launching the first satellite 2 months behind isn't so bad, when your first launch vehicle is home made while the Japanese imported US components.

Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know where your fanboyism comes from but try to speak with facts.

The engine on the J-7 was a piece of licensed Russian technology. LMC WP7B (China) - Jane's Aero-Engines

While the engine on the F-1 was locally developed. Of course, the Japanese later went back and with the F-2 licensed much of the technology from Lockheed and GE, but the point remains that they could develop one independently if they so choose to. They don't, because having the US subsidize all of your defence research is much cheaper. Their aircraft technology was up to world standards throughout WWII, and historically they have done "High Tech" very well. Japanese consumer electronics an robotics R&D has been arguably the best in the world for the last 30 or so years. If that does not indicate precision manufacturing capability, I don't know what does.

In the end though, I think you and I are talking about different things, my point is that the Japanese have the precision manufacturing capability and technological know-how to create a ballistic missile in a few years if they really felt the need, you seem to be talking about what they can do today. If you mean to say that Japan could not start manufacturing a ballistic missile next week, I agree, but they could do it in less than 3-4 years if they felt the desire. Just like they are capable of making civillian aircraft, it just makes sense for them to let Boeing and Airbus bear the brunt of research and development costs, given the size of their domestic market.

The F-1 was a fighter that was obsolete the day it rolled off the production line, as was the F-2. They were merely intended to keep a small number of areospace engineers employed and trained in country, so that should the need arise, Japan could create its own military aircraft one day.

 

[Tang0]

If we were are going to compare licensed technology, I would bring up that Mitshubishi Heavy Industries has been manufacturing the F-15 M for JSDF since 1981, while China was not given the license to make the J-11, which has near-parity combat capabilities, until 1995. Anywho, this is all ancillary to the point of the thread, and I have no interest in promoting Japan as some type of technological wonderland or China as bassakwards rural village. Both notions detract from the true nature of the respective countries, as well as being insulting to the residents and culture of those countries.
My original point is that Japan is more than capable of having nuclear weapons, and the methods to deliver them should it so desire. It's constitution prevents large expindatures on the military, or having real offensive capabilities. Its technological sector and GDP make the notional capabilities well within its' reach however.

 

[nightcrawler]

^^
I had seen a documentary that jet engines via a secret German sub were sailed to Japanese. Though the mission failed doest it indicate that Japanese lacked in the metallurgical aspects then??

 

[Tang0]

^^
At the time the Germans and the British were the only ones who had any clue how to design and develop Jet engines. This mostly had to do with the fact that almost all of the early pioneers in aerodynamics were German, British, and French, and less to do with metallurgy. It was the mechanics of the airflow and the development of the nesseccary compression techniques that were early roadblocks to the first simple jet engines, not metallurgy. That and the fact that jet engines are not obviously more efficient or effective than props from the outside. In fact, as far as efficiency goes, they are pretty terrible at the speeds aircraft were moving at in the late 30's and early 40's. We really didn't realize the problems with props until aircraft speeds got up to the point that the prop tips were begining to get into the transonic region. This only started after radial engines had developed to very high horsepowers (1000+ kW)

So, anyway, the point is that there was no obvious gain to using TurboJets instead of propeller driven aircraft unless you began to see what was going on in the Transonic region, for which you needed either really powerful aircraft or Tran/SuperSonic wind tunnels. Even then, at the time only Germany was producing lots of physicists and engineers capable of doing the math to analyze this stuff. The British invention of Jet Engine technology was mostly serendipitous, and not well exploited until it became obvious that the Germans were up to something.

Even considering all of that, by 1945 the Japanese had managed to develop a small TurboJet engine: Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - MXY7 Ohka
The US just stole German designs and engineers at the end of the war to develop its turbojets.

 

[nightcrawler]

^^
Great post. Can you also shed some light over the Soviet progress in the said field.

 

[below_freezing]

The engine on the J-7 was a piece of licensed Russian technology. LMC WP7B (China) - Jane's Aero-Engines

While the engine on the F-1 was locally developed. Of course, the Japanese later went back and with the F-2 licensed much of the technology from Lockheed and GE, but the point remains that they could develop one independently if they so choose to. They don't, because having the US subsidize all of your defence research is much cheaper. Their aircraft technology was up to world standards throughout WWII, and historically they have done "High Tech" very well. Japanese consumer electronics an robotics R&D has been arguably the best in the world for the last 30 or so years. If that does not indicate precision manufacturing capability, I don't know what does.

In the end though, I think you and I are talking about different things, my point is that the Japanese have the precision manufacturing capability and technological know-how to create a ballistic missile in a few years if they really felt the need, you seem to be talking about what they can do today. If you mean to say that Japan could not start manufacturing a ballistic missile next week, I agree, but they could do it in less than 3-4 years if they felt the desire. Just like they are capable of making civillian aircraft, it just makes sense for them to let Boeing and Airbus bear the brunt of research and development costs, given the size of their domestic market.

The F-1 was a fighter that was obsolete the day it rolled off the production line, as was the F-2. They were merely intended to keep a small number of areospace engineers employed and trained in country, so that should the need arise, Japan could create its own military aircraft one day.

OK, we are talking some sense now. Yes, if Japan wanted to, they could make nukes and ICBMs within 5 years (give it 1 more year to make a credible deterrent). However, wars started by the US are completely unpredictable. The US bites whoever it wants, whenever it wants, as long as they're weak. If the US makes a misjudgment tomorrow and launches an attack on China with Japan's help, then Japan will not have the opportunity to build its nuclear deterrence.

We should also not overly focus on the past but on future trends.

HEEACT ? Performance Ranking of Scientific Papers for World Universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In engineering, technology and CS, the articles published by Tsinghua are ranked 3rd overall, while Japanese universities has lower rankings in this area. Admittedly, on basic research and life sciences, we are behind, but in the areas critical to national defense, we are keeping up with the trends.

China Ascendant | Science & Technology | Chemical & Engineering News

China is also catching up fast in the all important and highly applied field of Chemistry. In 2009, China became the country with the most number of chemistry related patents published, and this trend is not showing signs of reversal.

 

[boris]

no doubt chinese education system is excellent,chinese school teens are doing great in international maths and physics olympiads with full team gold medals.

the universities like harbin,jaiotong,tsinghua,fudan,nanjing,zhejiang are state of the art with jaitong having some of the best programmers in the world by winning the ACM.harbin students have won asian robotics competitions time and again beating our IIT's.

its true but in terms of every field due to having a system of specialised subject schools where kids having superior talent in subjects like maths,physics,chemistry,computer science,arts or even an inclination towards engineering china and russia have beaten india when it comes to having patents and creative thinking

 

[Bigoren]

There will be another secret carrier killer.

 

[Thomas]

China is also catching up fast in the all important and highly applied field of Chemistry. In 2009, China became the country with the most number of chemistry related patents published, and this trend is not showing signs of reversal.

Interesting that China even bothers with patents. After all they could care less about the intellectual rights from other countries right?

 

[Brotherhood]

Interesting that China even bothers with patents. After all they could care less about the intellectual rights from other countries right?

Really? not only China is damn serious with "patents" infact we are likely poised to lead the world in "patents" filings.

SHANGHAI — Having passed Germany (exports), Japan (gross domestic product) and the United States (auto sales) over the past year, China is now poised to lead the world in yet another category: patent application filings.

A new study released this week by Thomson Reuters says that by 2011 China will most likely pass the United States and Japan in new patent applications.
China Poised to Lead World in Patent Filings - NYTimes.com

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Interesting that China even bothers with patents. After all they could care less about the intellectual rights from other countries right?

Nice stereotyping there.

Look at Brotherhood's post, if you want some actual facts.

 

[Thomas]

Nice stereotyping there.

Look at Brotherhood's post, if you want some actual facts.

lol, one man's reverse engineering is anothers theft of property rights. Or are you saying China does not do this? all the prior threads and posts on this website concerning Chinese reverse engineering. And all the Chinese posters defending the practice are much ado about nothing?

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

Yes over the horizon radar is something which China already has. I am sure when they design weapons they would have considered all the potential counter measures that the US would have at their disposal. Then again US can only see or track what their satellites allows them to see

Aegis will blast Chinese missiles with ease.