Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[deckingraj]

I am only pointing out that arguments such as 'he is PM so he must be right' are easily proven wrong given the lies sold by Bush and Blair.

If someone is implying that being PM he is right then that assertion is wrong...I am with you on that....

As for 'upping the ante' I see nothing of the sort here given the clarifications issued and Cameron's own comments of 'engage in discussions with Pakistan to resolve these issues'.

Calling Gaza a prison camp is not going to end the UK's diplomatic ties with Israel (though it may signal tougher public rhetoric with respect to them) nor are Cameron's recent statements going to have any G2G impact given significant UK interests in maintaining a good relationship with Pakistan, and the lack of any actual evidence substantiating Cameron's rhetoric.

Nopes....If it is what you are saying in the last line then there has to be G2G change...Do you think GOI will say wow they said so many things so now open our cofers(we are still devoloping economy) for them????....Appeasement is not in words sir...it is in actions...

It is what it is, 'rhetoric to please India when leading the larges British delegation to India in history on a jobs mission'.

You don't need to bash Pak to appease India....This is not how things work....You need to show actions on ground to appease India or for that matter any other nation...If the PM of a country i making such remarks then calling them mere rhetorics is definitely one major understatement....Anyways one thing you can clearly see is UK foreign policy shift(atleast in statements on terror) and once this WOT is over how it is going to look....

 

[karan.1970]

If he is correct, since he has already 'upset' Pakistan by making the statements publicly, there should be nothing stopping him from providing the evidence backing his comments either. Providing evidence backing up his public rhetoric is a pretty reasonable ask.

Provided he thinks he needs to provide that evidence. He has shared his point of view (and by association, POV of UK govt). Take it as you will...

btw, I was not using the logic of "he is the PM so he must be right".. The expectation is that he knows more than people on this forum and his statements (correct or incorrect) would be driven by that knowledge and have lesser probability of being wrong..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If someone is implying that being PM he is right then that assertion is wrong...I am with you on that....

Nopes....If it is what you are saying in the last line then there has to be G2G change...Do you think GOI will say wow they said so many things so now open our cofers(we are still devoloping economy) for them????....Appeasement is not in words sir...it is in actions...

You don't need to bash Pak to appease India....This is not how things work....You need to show actions on ground to appease India or for that matter any other nation...If the PM of a country i making such remarks then calling them mere rhetorics is definitely one major understatement....Anyways one thing you can clearly see is UK foreign policy shift(atleast in statements on terror) and once this WOT is over how it is going to look....

Cameron mentioned nothing, nor has the UK indicated anything, that would amount to a tangible change in policy towards Pakistan. It is Pakistan that is having a debate on whether to cancel cooperation and State visits to the UK, not the UK debating on cutting ties with Pakistan.

So tell me, in the absence of any tangible G2G shift in UK-Pak ties, what to call Cameron's statements if not 'rhetoric meant to play to the Indian crowd'?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Provided he thinks he needs to provide that evidence. He has shared his point of view (and by association, POV of UK govt). Take it as you will...

We'll take it based on tangible actions taken by the UK government vis a vis Pakistan, and not on rhetoric means to appease a particular audience.

btw, I was not using the logic of "he is the PM so he must be right".. The expectation is that he knows more than people on this forum and his statements (correct or incorrect) would be driven by that knowledge and have lesser probability of being wrong..

But those expectations are patently fallacious given the examples of Bush and Blair - being President and PM with some of the most powerful and effective intelligence agencies at their disposal did not prevent them from making statements that were completely wrong.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

About China, the reason I say marginal is simply because of a past war and unresolved boundary disputes. But we are fast getting past that. The key there is to make India militarily strong enough to make animosity a painful venture for China and at the same time, making China and India intertwined economically to make animosity a very unprofitable venture.

Sounds like a good plan for both sides.

Nobody will gain from a war, so it's best to reduce the chances of it ever happening.

Increasing Economic ties will be the best method to achieve this I think.

 

[raazh]

Mods I am just pasting this under many topics so that I could get the maximum awareness. if any nuisance, then feel free to delete.

AoA,

Dear Pakistani Brothers and Sisters!

Pakistan is facing one of the worst floods in its recorded history. Hundreds have lost their life, thousands have lost their loved ones and Millions have lost their belongings. People have been forced to live under the sky and hope that some of their fellow country men/women would extend a hand of help and rescue.

While the Nation mourns and suffers this azab/chaos and looks to the Political leaders/admin for some sort of order and rescue, our PPP leaders are planning to have a party in UK and celebrate the begining of next of kin (aka Dictator Family) Bilawal bhuttos political career. Thousands of Pounds worth of Tax payers money has already been spent for booking of hotels and halls in UK. Even the recent Bashing of Pakistan by Brit PM has not turned any heads. Even the Army officials have canceled the meetings on their own. Have our Poitical leaders no shame? Have they no Character? Is there agenda to lead Pakistan to Prosperity or to secure rein of their next Generation on Pakistan? I believe the answer is not hard to judge!

When will we rise up and say enough is enough? This is our Pakistan. Remember, no matter how long you live in foreign land you will never be a gora. period! Doest matter if you have a Passport of not. One more false flag operation and you will see which group you blong to. Remember Pakistan is not Bad .. its only us who have handed our land to corrupt thiefs. Pakistan does not need your money, Pakistan needs you! Pakistan needs its sons and its daughters. One generation must sacrifice in order for the next to prosper on a strong foundation. We must protest what is right and what is wrong. We must take what is rightfully ours.

I would call all my Pakistani brothers and sisters living in or around UK to arrange a protest against Zardari partying in UK. Please call or arrange all your family, friends, colleagues to come forward and protest, throw eggs, shoes on these shameless looters. REMEMBER! Pakistan is yours. You own it! You are responsible for it! Stop looking at others to do your work. Now is the time to let all the Pakistanis know that "WE WILL NOT LET THIS CONTINUE, WE WILL PROTEST AND STOP THESE LOOTERS FROM MAKING FUN OF US"

I have never been to UK so I dont know where to gather or what Pakistani societies are active in UK. I would welcome your comments on how to arrange this protest. Some one just suggest a place to assemble for this protest. Please pass this to different forums and forward this to all your friends.

.

 

[karan.1970]

We'll take it based on tangible actions taken by the UK government vis a vis Pakistan, and not on rhetoric means to appease a particular audience.

But those expectations are patently fallacious given the examples of Bush and Blair - being President and PM with some of the most powerful and effective intelligence agencies at their disposal did not prevent them from making statements that were completely wrong.

Lesser probability does not read no probability and a PM being wrong in the past does not equate to all PM's being wrong at all times...

 

[karan.1970]

The where is his evidence? When those in the past atleast tried to provide evidence, and this one does not even do that, it places his claims on a rung even lower than Bush&Blair on Iraq.

Considering B&B claims led to invasion of Iraq, these being a rung below that should not be too much of a consolation..

 

[Jackdaws]

It never ceases to amaze me how popular the Armed Forces of Pakistan are amongst it people. I can understand in case of North Korea or Burma which don't have a free press and impose severe restrictions on their people. The Pakistanis I have met are quite liberal and free to act in their country. I mean if an Indian general did talk of a coup to replace the civilian government, however corrupt that civilian government might be - I would probably laugh at his face. Zardari is going to UK but Kayani is not? Shouldn't Kayani do as told by Zardari?

 

[raazh]

Mods I am just pasting this under many topics so that I could get the maximum awareness, If you can spread this faster some how than please take the lead. if any nuisance, then feel free to delete.

AoA,

Dear Pakistani Brothers and Sisters!

Pakistan is facing one of the worst floods in its recorded history. Hundreds have lost their life, thousands have lost their loved ones and Millions have lost their belongings. People have been forced to live under the sky and hope that some of their fellow country men/women would extend a hand of help and rescue.

While the Nation mourns and suffers this azab/chaos and looks to the Political leaders/admin for some sort of order and rescue, our PPP leaders are planning to have a party in UK and celebrate the begining of, next of kin, Bilawal bhuttos (aka Dictator Family) political career. Thousands of Pounds worth of Tax payers money has already been spent for booking of hotels and halls in UK. Even the recent Bashing of Pakistan by Brit PM has not turned any heads. Our Army officials have canceled the trip on their own initiative. Have our Poitical leaders no shame? Have they no Character? Is there agenda to lead Pakistan to Prosperity or to secure rein of their next Generation? I believe the answer is not hard to judge!

When will we rise up and say enough is enough? This is our Pakistan. Remember, no matter how long you live in foreign land you will never be a gora. period! Doesnt matter if you have a Passport or not. One more false flag operation and you will see automatically which group you blong to. Remember Pakistan is not Bad .. its only us who have handed our land to corrupt thiefs. Pakistan does not need your money, Pakistan needs you! Pakistan needs its sons and its daughters. One generation must sacrifice in order for the next to prosper on a strong foundation. We must protest what is right and what is wrong. We must take what is rightfully ours.

I would call all my Pakistani brothers and sisters living in or around UK to arrange a protest against Zardari partying in UK. Please call or arrange all your family, friends, colleagues to come forward and protest, throw eggs, shoes on these shameless looters. REMEMBER! Pakistan is yours. You own it! You are responsible for it! Stop looking at others to do your work. Now is the time to let all the Pakistanis know that "WE WILL NOT LET THIS CONTINUE, WE WILL PROTEST AND STOP THESE LOOTERS FROM MAKING FUN OF US"

I have never been to UK so I dont know where to gather or what Pakistani societies are active in UK. I would welcome your comments on how to arrange this protest. Some one just suggest a place to assemble for this protest. Please pass this to different forums and forward this to all your friends.

.

 

[karan.1970]

It never ceases to amaze me how popular the Armed Forces of Pakistan are amongst it people. I can understand in case of North Korea or Burma which don't have a free press and impose severe restrictions on their people. The Pakistanis I have met are quite liberal and free to act in their country. I mean if an Indian general did talk of a coup to replace the civilian government, however corrupt that civilian government might be - I would probably laugh at his face. Zardari is going to UK but Kayani is not? Shouldn't Kayani do as told by Zardari?

The impression it creates is that UK blamed the PA/ISI of going outside the control of the civilian govt and indulging in the nefarious activities. Thats why ISI is refusing to go to UK whereas civilian establishment has no issues continuing with the visit.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Considering B&B claims led to invasion of Iraq, these being a rung below that should not be too much of a consolation..

The context of the B&B claims, the status of Iraq etc, were also vastly different.

Sorry Karan, but your 'wet dreams' of sanctions and invasion of Pakistan (yes, I know, an overused phrase) are simply not going to come to fruition, not based on the fact that the G2G relationship has in fact improved with both the US and UK.

 

[karan.1970]

The context of the B&B claims, the status of Iraq etc, were also vastly different.

Sorry Karan, but your 'wet dreams' of sanctions and invasion of Pakistan (yes, I know, an overused phrase) are simply not going to come to fruition, not based on the fact that the G2G relationship has in fact improved with both the US and UK.

IMHO Uncalled for.. I never implied that Pakistan will be sanctioned or invaded. Its all about shifts in relationships and changes in strategic equations..

 

[TaimiKhan]

The context of the B&B claims, the status of Iraq etc, were also vastly different.

Sorry Karan, but your 'wet dreams' of sanctions and invasion of Pakistan (yes, I know, an overused phrase) are simply not going to come to fruition, not based on the fact that the G2G relationship has in fact improved with both the US and UK.

A dream of nearly every Indian , if not every 99%s dream and wish.

 

[deckingraj]

A dream of nearly every Indian , if not every 99%s dream and wish.

Every indian has defnitely one dream but very different from the one you are claiming...Our dream is to become a superpower....An economic superpower and an undisputed regional power in military terms.....we do not wish for any invasion be it Pakistan..be it China....So i am sorry but you seems to be basing your argument on a flawed assumption....