Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[ice_man]

Pakistan's Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira said Zardari would "explain the facts" over Cameron's "misperception", insisting that the row should not be allowed to sour relations between the two countries.

"If the prime minister of the UK has said something that is contrary to the facts on the ground, it doesn't mean that we should boycott each other," Kaira said Saturday at a press conference in London.

"The president of Pakistan will explain and have a dialogue and good discussion and he will explain the facts to the new government over here.

"We hope that... when they get the exact picture, they will agree with us."

what a MADARCH**D!!!! man seriously i mean what a statement pissing of the whole nation!!!! we still need to show the picture to the british & hope they would agree with us???

 

[ramu]

This is the civilian government of Pakistan. It is shame that a democracy does not act as per the majority will of the people. Then again, is the civilian government of Pakistan a namesake government and it is the military that is the real power ? I think more Pakistanis relate more to the military ideology of Pakistan than with the civilian government here atleast.

 

[Icarus]

A good response is necessary, however calling for suspension of diplomatic relations is going a tat too far, what about all the UK based Pakistanis ? They will be left without diplomatic support, people who are investing there will lose all their money, British investment in Pakistan will cease, Britain is amongst the largest buyers of Pakistani garments that will stop and this is just the tip of the ice berg, suspension of diplomatic relations is a very serious issue...........................

 

[karan.1970]

If you consider that Cameron could be right (even partially) then that could explain the soft reaction of the Pakistani govt. Zardari and co now need to try hard and get a moderating comment from the UK establishment to declare victory in communicating Pakistan's stand. Else, this visit may turn into a political suicide for him

 

[DGMO]

This is the civilian government of Pakistan. It is shame that a democracy does not act as per the majority will of the people. Then again, is the civilian government of Pakistan a namesake government and it is the military that is the real power ? I think more Pakistanis relate more to the military ideology of Pakistan than with the civilian government here atleast.

The military will always tug at the heartstrings of the people, and are generally more popular it seems. They shape foreign policy, are on the frontlines fighting terrorists in the North-West, and are seen as 'guardians of the nation'.

The fact that Ghaddari (according to the latest Pew poll) has an approval rating of around 20% (I'd like to know who those deluded people were that voted for him), Kayani has a 61% and the military has an incredible 84% approval rating.

The civilian govt has been an absolute disaster, and any faith that the people had in them in 2008 has been totally eroded. I'm not saying that the miltary form of govt is the correct one, but I think this administration has been found seriously wanting.

Not only has the economy nosedived and food prices rocketed (you fail with the people as soon as that happens), but the corruption levels and sheer ignorance and refusal to admit to mistakes or mismanagement has really hit them hard. The alternatives are no good as the PML-N have shown their true face with countless stories of corruption and fake degrees.

So who do the people turn to when the civvies are so abhorrent? The military naturally fills that vacuum. And with a great deal of patriotism on view given the precarious security situation we're in, more and more find comfort supporting them, than the leaders who seem to spend more time in the palaces of Dubai and London, than reaching out to the masses.

The disconnect is huge, we're not stupid, and military will always find favour with the people in times such as these.

 

[mjnaushad]

This is the civilian government of Pakistan. It is shame that a democracy does not act as per the majority will of the people. Then again, is the civilian government of Pakistan a namesake government and it is the military that is the real power ? I think more Pakistanis relate more to the military ideology of Pakistan than with the civilian government here atleast.

How come?????

 

[DGMO]

If you consider that Cameron could be right (even partially) then that could explain the soft reaction of the Pakistani govt. Zardari and co now need to try hard and get a moderating comment from the UK establishment to declare victory in communicating Pakistan's stand. Else, this visit may turn into a political suicide for him

I think that's true to some effect. I don't take much umbrage with what he is saying, IF the message was:

There are terrorists in Pakistan, that carry out acts of terror in other countries.

However, the whole message has been turned into 'Pakistan is an exporter of terrorism', which is the message flowing through Pakistan, and creating the anger we're seeing.

Ghaddari now has to come out of this with something. He needs to declare some sort of victory, or admission from Cameron. He's getting negative press for going ahead with this visit anyhow, if he doesn't secure something from Cameron, then the fall-out should be even worse.

The bottom line is, you say these comments in private, you air these concerns in private. The view held amongst us is that in order to tie up as many business deals as possible and in order to prostitue himself to get the best return, he stood in India our of all places and said these in public. Then he didn't as much try to resort to damage limitations, he stuck his chest out and said 'I'm Cowboy Cameron, and I'm gonna shoot from the hip'.

That failure to hold back, and foolish desire to escalate the row has led us to where we are. And this must be seen in its context and the backdrop of anguish and suffering over the past week: The worst plane crash in our history, the worst floods in 80 years, and then we get the worst possible dressing down, and even that in 'arch-enemy India'.

It's a toxic mix which arouses passions. Much of which you're seeing on this forum and in Pakistan itself.

 

[ramu]

How come?????

I think DGMO answered this. I will write my reply to DGMO... Busy eating paratas

 

[ice_man]

This is the civilian government of Pakistan. It is shame that a democracy does not act as per the majority will of the people. Then again, is the civilian government of Pakistan a namesake government and it is the military that is the real power ? I think more Pakistanis relate more to the military ideology of Pakistan than with the civilian government here atleast.

yes and the indian myth that all power is with the military is proved wrong by the ISI chief not going to the UK while president goes! now wonder where the real power lies smart guy!!!!!

 

[ramu]

yes and the indian myth that all power is with the military is proved wrong by the ISI chief not going to the UK while president goes! now wonder where the real power lies smart guy!!!!!

Read the reply from DGMO. The divergent stand makes the civilian and military powers look parallel with military holding the support and keys to power.

I think DGMO answered this so no point repeating.

 

[SMC]

The opposition parties in India, Pakistan or in UK will oppose and that is so hard to fathom?

What happened ramu?

Few days ago we were talking as to why Cameron made this statement but you were stuck on only saying that 'he made the statement, he made the statement', disregarding any explanation that was given.

Now when the tables turn, it's not so utterly simplistic for you?

 

[DGMO]

yes and the indian myth that all power is with the military is proved wrong by the ISI chief not going to the UK while president goes! now wonder where the real power lies smart guy!!!!!

It's not an Indian myth, by and large it's true. The military shapes and dictates our foreign policy. Their role in civil society is still unprecedented, whether that's business interests, or even the need for Kayani to get involved over the CJ restoration issue (can you imagine that in any other 'democracy'?)

They are the true power-brokers and will always be consulted in times of need over the major decisions.

Let's not forget, this visit by Ghaddari is a personal one in that plans have already been made for Billly Bhutto's ascension to Chairman of the PPP.

There was no way he'd opt out of that. And given he's visiting France first, the fact that he may bring up discussions over military hardware or JF-17 avionics means that there isn't the outright pressure from the military for him to scrap his plans.

But the cancellation of the visit by the ISI is embarrassing enough for Ghaddari. That was the military flexing its muscles both domestically and internationally.

That shows who pulls the strings leaving Ghaddari isolated to stick his teeth out as usual and smile for the cameras.

 

[somebozo]

Well that means Ghaddri is under remote control of ISI and PA and so will be his son. Good for the nation. PA has done a lot of progress for country more than any democratic government but its a fact that an army controlled state raises red flag around the world. So whats better than democracy run by PA remote control. If this scenerio is correct I have no problem with billy leading the nation. After all he will just be a remote controlled stooge. Like father like son!

 

[ramu]

Well that means Ghaddri is under remote control of ISI and PA and so will be his son. Good for the nation. PA has done a lot of progress for country more than any democratic government but its a fact that an army controlled state raises red flag around the world. So whats better than democracy run by PA remote control. If this scenerio is correct I have no problem with billy leading the nation. After all he will just be a remote controlled stooge. Like father like son!

That is exactly the problem countries have while dealing with Pakistan. The civilian government projects itself as the only power and is in control of everything. But the interlocutors know a lot more than the projections on the surface of it all.

Also the security establishments are taught to be ruthless and this attitude reflects in the diplomatic dealings with Pakistan winning few friends and more enemies.

 

[DGMO]

If this scenerio is correct I have no problem with billy leading the nation. After all he will just be a remote controlled stooge. Like father like son!

Well I wouldn't say Ghaddari is remote controlled.

And I wouldn't for a moment call for Billy to be the next PM. What we need to do is move away from a dynastic form of Govt which borders on a monarchy.

The worship of personalities needs to stop, and those that deliver the goods for the nation and devote all their energies to this country should be office bearers. Not those that can't speak the national language and have spent times clocking up air miles between London and Abu Dhabi.